Stinky & muddy badger brush. Out of ideas. Help!

[Demolition]

Ladies and gentlemen,

I need help with a Yaqi 26mm Two-Band Badger Moka Express brush that has resisted all of my efforts to clean and de-funk. Here's what I've done up to this point (warning, lengthy post ahead...):

One week ago, I received the above-mentioned brush and noticed a strong odour coming from the package, even through the bubble mailer, bubble wrap, cardboard box, and yards of packing tape. Once unwrapped, it smelled much stronger than any other badger brush that I've owned previously. Also, the brush had a lot of dirt, bits of shredded paper, and many short broken hairs throughout the knot. Brushing my hand over the knot resulted in a shower of broken and bent hairs, five long loose hairs, and a chunk of glue with a scraggly hair stuck in it. The knot feels strangely greasy (leftover factory residue?).

I immediately began my usual brush cleaning and break-in process...

Day 1: 1) Soak in a weak vinegar/water solution for 15 minutes (lost 3 hairs after rinsing); 2) soak in a weak Dawn/water solution for 15 minutes (lost 1 hair after rinsing); 3) hand-lather with Ivory bar soap to remove all traces of vinegar and dish soap (lost 1 hair after rinsing); and 4) hand-lather with Proraso Green, then left it to sit overnight on the bathtub edge. Multiple lost hairs has me a bit concerned.

Day 2: This morning, the bathroom smells very strongly; as if something died in there. There is a puddle of brown water on the tub edge. I rinse the brush; two hairs and what looks like coffee washes out of the knot. Despite that, it feels fantastic with an incredibly densely-packed knot and lovely soft tips... but smells absolutely horrible! I let it dry for six hours, then hand-lather it with Omega (resulting in 1 loose hair), hoping that the strong eucalyptus scent will help with the de-funking. I leave it sitting on the counter overnight.

Day 3: Bathroom still smells bad. Again, there's a slurry of brown water under the brush. Where is all this brown gunk coming from? After rinsing, the brush still smells terrible. I wash it with Head & Shoulders shampoo, resulting in a short loose hair (are the hairs breaking off?). I left it on the counter for three hours, then rinsed it out. Still smells like heck. I hand-lather it with Proraso Green, then rinse it. I decide to let the brush dry overnight and check it in the morning.

Day 4: Even dry, it smells putrid. I debate trying to shave with it... I go through my usual routine and face-lather with Nivea Sensitive cream. What a mistake. As soon as I touch the brush to my face, I feel nauseous. I have a strong stomach, but this was beyond the pale. It was like sticking my nose in the south end of a north-facing badger.

I interrupt my shave, rinse the brush out, douse it with my strongest-smelling shave product (Proraso Wood & Spice Beard Wash), build a lather, then take the brush downstairs and leave it in the laundry sink overnight. I found the whole situation very disturbing, so I went unshaved today.

Day 5: The laundry tub is concrete, so I can't tell if there's any brown water under the brush. All I can smell is Wood & Spice, so I'm hoping that the odour has gone away. I rinse the brush... nope, still stinks! The added Wood & Spice scent has created an extremely pungent combination. I take the brush back upstairs and go through my initial cleaning routine again (vinegar solution and Dawn dish soap), then let the brush dry until evening. After supper, I soak the brush in warm water as if I was getting ready to shave, but then leave it on the tub edge overnight. I want to see if the brown water is from the soaps/shampoos that I've used or if it's coming from the brush itself.

Day 6: A brown puddle again, this morning. Well, that answers that question. The putrid odour also remains. This time, I remember to take photos of the stains:

It's eating into the caulking. I couldn't think of anything else to do, so I rinsed the brush out and left it on the counter to dry. After supper, I lathered it again with the Wood & Spice beard wash in hopes that it will be strong enough to mask the rotting/dead animal odour.

It's now the early morning of Day 7. I can smell the Wood & Spice scent permeating the house. I'm absolutely exhausted by this ordeal. It's unlike anything that I've experienced with any other brush. The funny/ironic/sad thing is that the brush lathers like crazy; the performance is amazing... but I can't bear to bring it anywhere near my face. Also, the fact that muddy water is still coming out of the brush is extremely unsettling.

Frankly, the only good thing that I can think of is that it hasn't shed any hairs in a couple of days.

So, what now? Can anybody think of something that I haven't tried, yet?

 

[MikeTbass]

I recently tried the "3 day soak" method on an Omega 48 as a test bed. This brush had the most funk out of any that I have received. Nothing fancy, I put it in a mug in the fridge and changed the water once a day for 3 days. This is supposed to be an accelerated break in method for boars but I noticed that the extended soaking was drawing a lot of the smells out of the brush.

The first day the water smelled of Arko, the second day of boar funk, the last day faintly of boar funk. I have no experience with badger brushes but it seems that your knot is saturated with nasty stuff -I would think to use a dish soap wash and extended soak to draw the smells out. Water is a gentle solvent in this regard and I'd try using the least aggressive methods before working up to harsher chemicals and soaks.

 

[CincyDawg]

I’ve never had one that bad. I’ve had good success soaking brushes in a mug with a solution of warm water and Oxyclean.

 

[stone and strop]

A mild soap and soak overnight or 24 hours should help.

 

[Atlantic59]

I have a friend you should meet...

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I would soak the brush overnight in this, followed by a thorough rinse, then another soak in laundry detergent solution.

You can't cover the funk with scents, it must be destroyed!

 

[rockviper]

To me, that brown sludge indicates that there is still oil in the hair. Give it a good wash or two with some dish detergent to cut through those oils.

 

[pk_]

I had the same issue with this brush. Soaked and soaked and soaked and created gallons of brown water. I did a bunch of lathers with soaps I’ve acquired and don’t use to help work the funk out too. It took me a good deal longer to work the funk out and break the brush in, so keep at it. This isn’t my favorite brush from a performance standpoint, but it’s my favorite from an appearance one!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[HereticHermit]

I have brown color water puddle from every yaqi natural hair brush. 2 band moka took me 3 days to clear the funk out. Admittedly I used good strength dawn and left it fully submerged for 12 hour. I'd gently stir the solution and brush every few hour.
That brown water is real source of odder. It will go away but it is going to take lot of water and repeated dawn rinse.
On a particularly stinky boar I have used 10 watt ozone generator with good success but I won't advice anyone to use it. Ozone gas can destroy things but I used on my boar as it was very cheap.

 

[Rhody]

Eating into the caulk? Whoa maybe take it out back a shoot it. I dont think any brush should put you through all that. My stinky one was an omega boar. Finally found castile soap to take care of it
I hesitate to suggest anything after all you've done. Send it back? Or did you communicate with the seller?
I only buy yaqi from wcs and they stand behind their items.

 

[Ad Astra]

*Good*Gravy, I don't like the sound of that!

We need a brush, not a fresh hunk of badger face!

Let soap dry on it ... Outside.


AA

 

[Chandu]

It's eating into the caulking.

Wow, Yaqi must use some really good for the environment and human chemicals to get the hair "clean", softened, conditioned and whatever else.

If it was mine, the very next think I'd do is congratulate myself on a lesson learned, toss it in the garbage and order something from Simpson or Shavemac. Yes their hair comes from China, but you can be damn certain they'd never except a batch of this quality. Sounds like the consumer is Yaqi's QA department.

 

[Chandu]

I forgot to add

If you can get a refund I'd suggest that. I would not want a replacement given what others have said. The brush is ironically named apparently. Just plain gross, imho.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I've not had any problems with my two two band Yaqi brushes. Yours seems way beyond the pale. I'd ask for a refund.

That said, some of the suggestions already mentioned might work, but you should not have to go all that far to prepare a new brush for initial use. I've never done more than a few simple washes with Dawn or hand soap, and perhaps a hand lather or two. Usually not that much.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[pdieten]

Either return the thing, or cut off and drill out the old knot and put a new one in. Why are you putting yourself through this? This is not normal.

 

[Timeclo]

Ladies and gentlemen,

I need help with a Yaqi 26mm Two-Band Badger Moka Express brush that has resisted all of my efforts to clean and de-funk. Here's what I've done up to this point (warning, lengthy post ahead...):

One week ago, I received the above-mentioned brush and noticed a strong odour coming from the package, even through the bubble mailer, bubble wrap, cardboard box, and yards of packing tape. Once unwrapped, it smelled much stronger than any other badger brush that I've owned previously. Also, the brush had a lot of dirt, bits of shredded paper, and many short broken hairs throughout the knot. Brushing my hand over the knot resulted in a shower of broken and bent hairs, five long loose hairs, and a chunk of glue with a scraggly hair stuck in it. The knot feels strangely greasy (leftover factory residue?).

I immediately began my usual brush cleaning and break-in process...

Day 1: 1) Soak in a weak vinegar/water solution for 15 minutes (lost 3 hairs after rinsing); 2) soak in a weak Dawn/water solution for 15 minutes (lost 1 hair after rinsing); 3) hand-lather with Ivory bar soap to remove all traces of vinegar and dish soap (lost 1 hair after rinsing); and 4) hand-lather with Proraso Green, then left it to sit overnight on the bathtub edge. Multiple lost hairs has me a bit concerned.

Day 2: This morning, the bathroom smells very strongly; as if something died in there. There is a puddle of brown water on the tub edge. I rinse the brush; two hairs and what looks like coffee washes out of the knot. Despite that, it feels fantastic with an incredibly densely-packed knot and lovely soft tips... but smells absolutely horrible! I let it dry for six hours, then hand-lather it with Omega (resulting in 1 loose hair), hoping that the strong eucalyptus scent will help with the de-funking. I leave it sitting on the counter overnight.

Day 3: Bathroom still smells bad. Again, there's a slurry of brown water under the brush. Where is all this brown gunk coming from? After rinsing, the brush still smells terrible. I wash it with Head & Shoulders shampoo, resulting in a short loose hair (are the hairs breaking off?). I left it on the counter for three hours, then rinsed it out. Still smells like heck. I hand-lather it with Proraso Green, then rinse it. I decide to let the brush dry overnight and check it in the morning.

Day 4: Even dry, it smells putrid. I debate trying to shave with it... I go through my usual routine and face-lather with Nivea Sensitive cream. What a mistake. As soon as I touch the brush to my face, I feel nauseous. I have a strong stomach, but this was beyond the pale. It was like sticking my nose in the south end of a north-facing badger.

I interrupt my shave, rinse the brush out, douse it with my strongest-smelling shave product (Proraso Wood & Spice Beard Wash), build a lather, then take the brush downstairs and leave it in the laundry sink overnight. I found the whole situation very disturbing, so I went unshaved today.

Day 5: The laundry tub is concrete, so I can't tell if there's any brown water under the brush. All I can smell is Wood & Spice, so I'm hoping that the odour has gone away. I rinse the brush... nope, still stinks! The added Wood & Spice scent has created an extremely pungent combination. I take the brush back upstairs and go through my initial cleaning routine again (vinegar solution and Dawn dish soap), then let the brush dry until evening. After supper, I soak the brush in warm water as if I was getting ready to shave, but then leave it on the tub edge overnight. I want to see if the brown water is from the soaps/shampoos that I've used or if it's coming from the brush itself.

Day 6: A brown puddle again, this morning. Well, that answers that question. The putrid odour also remains. This time, I remember to take photos of the stains:

It's eating into the caulking. I couldn't think of anything else to do, so I rinsed the brush out and left it on the counter to dry. After supper, I lathered it again with the Wood & Spice beard wash in hopes that it will be strong enough to mask the rotting/dead animal odour.

It's now the early morning of Day 7. I can smell the Wood & Spice scent permeating the house. I'm absolutely exhausted by this ordeal. It's unlike anything that I've experienced with any other brush. The funny/ironic/sad thing is that the brush lathers like crazy; the performance is amazing... but I can't bear to bring it anywhere near my face. Also, the fact that muddy water is still coming out of the brush is extremely unsettling.

Frankly, the only good thing that I can think of is that it hasn't shed any hairs in a couple of days.

So, what now? Can anybody think of something that I haven't tried, yet?

Oh man. I tried 5 Yaqi brushes and never had one like that. I do get some brown water in the first rinse but never after. What I do for new brushes is soak it in water for couple hours. I mix in some shampoo/conditioner solution and leave the brush in the mix, making sure the water level doesn't go above the knot. Then, I bowl lather/hand lather with more shampoo/conditioner and rinse out, lather more with actual shave soap and rinse off. After this point, the knot still smells a bit but the brown water is all gone.

For yours, I'd say soak it under water for couple hours and try bowl lathering with more soap. Make sure you get a thorough rinse with it. I hand lather while the brush is under the tap and also make sure to get water directly from the top to get every nooks and cranny. Kevy shaves demonstrates a good way to wash his brush and I've learned a lot from it.

Hopefully the brush gets cleaner because that brush is one of my favorites badgers out there.

 

[Demolition]

Gentlemen,

Thank you for your comments. Your attention to this matter is very much appreciated!

Yes, I'm at the point where I can't even look at the brush without feeling depressed. But, the fact that others have had similar issues (although not to this extent) and managed to overcome them is encouraging.

As for my next step, I'm going to give it a soak in OxiClean, as suggested by @Atlantic59. That's something that I haven't tried, yet. With luck, it'll break down the greasy brown gunk inside the knot (and take some of the odour with it).

If that doesn't cure it, then I'll communicate with the seller and see what they have to say. If they know a secret way to cure the brown sludge and poop smell issue, then that would be nice. If they offer a refund, then I'll take it without question. If they want to send another brush... I'll probably ask for a refund, instead.

I'll report back when the issue is solved or I hear back from Yaqi. Thanks again!

 

[Rontu]

Dish soap (dawn), shampoo, and finally a lathering with MWF was all it took for my brush (same model). No brown water and oddly enough, no wet animal smell. Ironically, it's the only brush I've ever had that didn't stink when wet (and new). I consider myself lucky, after reading the trouble you're having with yours.

 

[Big Jim]

From my somewhat limited experience (I've never had a brush as bad as what you have experienced) I suspect your effort should be to get the brush to rinse clean. I agree that Dawn may be able to help but I have had even better success with Oxy Clean. Either with the Dawn or by itself. Wash it what you can in a few minutes, rinse it out, make a fresh mix, wash up, rinse out, repeat until the black quits flowing. Once the black is gone, do a half hour to hour soak in Oxy Clean until there is a significant reduction in the odor. There may be a trace left and when it gets to the point you can use it but with a very faint odor, but with use even that will eventually go away.

If you can't get the black out, give up and demand a replacement or refund.

 

[Demolition]

A progress report (going to be a long post again; sorry in advance ):

It has only been about 5 hours since my earlier post, but I've already seen some positive changes.

I mixed a weak OxiClean solution in a coffee mug: 1/2 teaspoon in 240 ml (8 oz) of hot tap water. I dunked the brush, knot down, with the water level about half way up the handle. I agitated it every 15 minutes. After an hour, I noticed that the water had turned dark brown again. I dumped the mug out, made a new batch of the OxiClean solution, then re-inserted the brush. My hopes were not high.

After another hour, I noticed that the solution was much less brown. I changed the solution again.

After the third hour, the solution was only slightly brown. I changed the solution, yet again. I'm feeling quite hopeful now.

After the fourth hour, the water remained fairly clear. I squeezed out the knot and rinsed it well. A quick sniff reveals a foul odour, but not nearly as strong as before. I actually rubbed the brush across my cheek without recoiling, this time. Also, as mentioned in my original post, the knot had an odd greasy feeling to it. However, after the last soak, it no longer feels that way.

Currently, the brush is soaking in a tall glass of plain water, fully immersed (including the handle). This is similar to my earlier test to see if the brown water was coming from the brush or from the soaps/shampoos/vinegar. I'm going to take a chance and keep the entire brush submerged, like @Timeclo suggested, but I'm going to let it go overnight. If the water stays clear, then the brown water issue might be solved. (I hope the plug doesn't swell too much.)

Anyway, here's what I think is going on... During my earlier cleaning efforts, I had not allowed the brush to be completely immersed in whatever cleaning liquid I was using. In almost every forum thread that discusses brush cleaning/break-in, the same warning is pounded into our heads: Only soak the knot partway up the hairs to prevent the knot base from swelling and coming loose or cracking the handle.

Well, I rigorously heeded that warning and that might have been my downfall. By only soaking the top half of the knot and hand-lathering, I wasn't getting enough of the soap/shampoo/vinegar down to the base of the knot where there must have been a massive glob of lipids (AKA fat). What I really needed to do was allow the knot's base to come in contact with some kind of cleaning agent for an extended period of time.

Therefore, I think that @rockviper was correct about the never-ending brown gunk indicating that the knot was still full of oil. I'm not sure that I really needed to use OxiClean, but I'm going to give credit to @Atlantic59, anyway, because OxiClean breaks down into hydrogen peroxide and washing soda, both being very efficient at dispersing oil and fat.

So, if this actually works out, then the only issue left will be the overwhelming smell coming out of this brush. I have some ideas on how to deal with that.

I'll report again after I try my de-funking process. (Also, with any luck, I might not have to haggle with Yaqi about a refund.)

 

[Timeclo]

A progress report (going to be a long post again; sorry in advance ):

It has only been about 5 hours since my earlier post, but I've already seen some positive changes.

I mixed a weak OxiClean solution in a coffee mug: 1/2 teaspoon in 240 ml (8 oz) of hot tap water. I dunked the brush, knot down, with the water level about half way up the handle. I agitated it every 15 minutes. After an hour, I noticed that the water had turned dark brown again. I dumped the mug out, made a new batch of the OxiClean solution, then re-inserted the brush. My hopes were not high.

After another hour, I noticed that the solution was much less brown. I changed the solution again.

After the third hour, the solution was only slightly brown. I changed the solution, yet again. I'm feeling quite hopeful now.

After the fourth hour, the water remained fairly clear. I squeezed out the knot and rinsed it well. A quick sniff reveals a foul odour, but not nearly as strong as before. I actually rubbed the brush across my cheek without recoiling, this time. Also, as mentioned in my original post, the knot had an odd greasy feeling to it. However, after the last soak, it no longer feels that way.

Currently, the brush is soaking in a tall glass of plain water, fully immersed (including the handle). This is similar to my earlier test to see if the brown water was coming from the brush or from the soaps/shampoos/vinegar. I'm going to take a chance and keep the entire brush submerged, like @Timeclo suggested, but I'm going to let it go overnight. If the water stays clear, then the brown water issue might be solved. (I hope the plug doesn't swell too much.)

Anyway, here's what I think is going on... During my earlier cleaning efforts, I had not allowed the brush to be completely immersed in whatever cleaning liquid I was using. In almost every forum thread that discusses brush cleaning/break-in, the same warning is pounded into our heads: Only soak the knot partway up the hairs to prevent the knot base from swelling and coming loose or cracking the handle.

Well, I rigorously heeded that warning and that might have been my downfall. By only soaking the top half of the knot and hand-lathering, I wasn't getting enough of the soap/shampoo/vinegar down to the base of the knot where there must have been a massive glob of lipids (AKA fat). What I really needed to do was allow the knot's base to come in contact with some kind of cleaning agent for an extended period of time.

Therefore, I think that @rockviper was correct about the never-ending brown gunk indicating that the knot was still full of oil. I'm not sure that I really needed to use OxiClean, but I'm going to give credit to @Atlantic59, anyway, because OxiClean breaks down into hydrogen peroxide and washing soda, both being very efficient at dispersing oil and fat.

So, if this actually works out, then the only issue left will be the overwhelming smell coming out of this brush. I have some ideas on how to deal with that.

I'll report again after I try my de-funking process. (Also, with any luck, I might not have to haggle with Yaqi about a refund.)

That could be true that the fat is stored towards the bottom of the knot. I haven't had a case like that but yours might be unique. Hopefully it works out for you at the end of the overnight soak.