Yaq, yaq, Yaqi. Disgusting...
Stinky & muddy badger brush. Out of ideas. Help!
- Thread starter Demolition
- Start date
Hi,A progress report (going to be a long post again; sorry in advance):
It has only been about 5 hours since my earlier post, but I've already seen some positive changes.
I mixed a weak OxiClean solution in a coffee mug: 1/2 teaspoon in 240 ml (8 oz) of hot tap water. I dunked the brush, knot down, with the water level about half way up the handle. I agitated it every 15 minutes. After an hour, I noticed that the water had turned dark brown again. I dumped the mug out, made a new batch of the OxiClean solution, then re-inserted the brush. My hopes were not high.
After another hour, I noticed that the solution was much less brown. I changed the solution again.
After the third hour, the solution was only slightly brown. I changed the solution, yet again. I'm feeling quite hopeful now.
After the fourth hour, the water remained fairly clear. I squeezed out the knot and rinsed it well. A quick sniff reveals a foul odour, but not nearly as strong as before. I actually rubbed the brush across my cheek without recoiling, this time. Also, as mentioned in my original post, the knot had an odd greasy feeling to it. However, after the last soak, it no longer feels that way.
Currently, the brush is soaking in a tall glass of plain water, fully immersed (including the handle). This is similar to my earlier test to see if the brown water was coming from the brush or from the soaps/shampoos/vinegar. I'm going to take a chance and keep the entire brush submerged, like @Timeclo suggested, but I'm going to let it go overnight. If the water stays clear, then the brown water issue might be solved. (I hope the plug doesn't swell too much.)
Anyway, here's what I think is going on... During my earlier cleaning efforts, I had not allowed the brush to be completely immersed in whatever cleaning liquid I was using. In almost every forum thread that discusses brush cleaning/break-in, the same warning is pounded into our heads: Only soak the knot partway up the hairs to prevent the knot base from swelling and coming loose or cracking the handle.
Well, I rigorously heeded that warning and that might have been my downfall. By only soaking the top half of the knot and hand-lathering, I wasn't getting enough of the soap/shampoo/vinegar down to the base of the knot where there must have been a massive glob of lipids (AKA fat). What I really needed to do was allow the knot's base to come in contact with some kind of cleaning agent for an extended period of time.
Therefore, I think that @rockviper was correct about the never-ending brown gunk indicating that the knot was still full of oil. I'm not sure that I really needed to use OxiClean, but I'm going to give credit to @Atlantic59, anyway, because OxiClean breaks down into hydrogen peroxide and washing soda, both being very efficient at dispersing oil and fat.
So, if this actually works out, then the only issue left will be the overwhelming smell coming out of this brush. I have some ideas on how to deal with that.
I'll report again after I try my de-funking process. (Also, with any luck, I might not have to haggle with Yaqi about a refund.)
I do sympathise with your predicament as I have the same problem with the same Moka Express and Mountain Lake Badger brush from the 11.11 sale. Very strong and terrible smell especially when wet upon their first washing in shampoo and soap. It took me almost 8 days of continuos soaking (5-6 hrs in vinegar then chemgene then dishwashing water solution), rinsing (in hair & body shampoo) and lastly soaking overnight in my most scented lather. Now both are rid of any funky smell and performs admirably.
Don't give up and just keep at it. Work on it some then leave it soaking daily and overnight.
Wishing you the best.
Chandu
I Waxed The Badger.
I think oxyclean may have been better than dawn after reading up on it. Some have used it to combat skunk spray.
Rhody
I'm a Lumberjack.
buy a brush. Get a part time jobA progress report (going to be a long post again; sorry in advance
It has only been about 5 hours since my earlier post, but I've already seen some positive changes.
I mixed a weak OxiClean solution in a coffee mug: 1/2 teaspoon in 240 ml (8 oz) of hot tap water. I dunked the brush, knot down, with the water level about half way up the handle. I agitated it every 15 minutes. After an hour, I noticed that the water had turned dark brown again. I dumped the mug out, made a new batch of the OxiClean solution, then re-inserted the brush. My hopes were not high.
After another hour, I noticed that the solution was much less brown. I changed the solution again.
After the third hour, the solution was only slightly brown. I changed the solution, yet again. I'm feeling quite hopeful now.
After the fourth hour, the water remained fairly clear. I squeezed out the knot and rinsed it well. A quick sniff reveals a foul odour, but not nearly as strong as before. I actually rubbed the brush across my cheek without recoiling, this time. Also, as mentioned in my original post, the knot had an odd greasy feeling to it. However, after the last soak, it no longer feels that way.
Currently, the brush is soaking in a tall glass of plain water, fully immersed (including the handle). This is similar to my earlier test to see if the brown water was coming from the brush or from the soaps/shampoos/vinegar. I'm going to take a chance and keep the entire brush submerged, like @Timeclo suggested, but I'm going to let it go overnight. If the water stays clear, then the brown water issue might be solved. (I hope the plug doesn't swell too much.)
Anyway, here's what I think is going on... During my earlier cleaning efforts, I had not allowed the brush to be completely immersed in whatever cleaning liquid I was using. In almost every forum thread that discusses brush cleaning/break-in, the same warning is pounded into our heads: Only soak the knot partway up the hairs to prevent the knot base from swelling and coming loose or cracking the handle.
Well, I rigorously heeded that warning and that might have been my downfall. By only soaking the top half of the knot and hand-lathering, I wasn't getting enough of the soap/shampoo/vinegar down to the base of the knot where there must have been a massive glob of lipids (AKA fat). What I really needed to do was allow the knot's base to come in contact with some kind of cleaning agent for an extended period of time.
Therefore, I think that @rockviper was correct about the never-ending brown gunk indicating that the knot was still full of oil. I'm not sure that I really needed to use OxiClean, but I'm going to give credit to @Atlantic59, anyway, because OxiClean breaks down into hydrogen peroxide and washing soda, both being very efficient at dispersing oil and fat.
So, if this actually works out, then the only issue left will be the overwhelming smell coming out of this brush. I have some ideas on how to deal with that.
I'll report again after I try my de-funking process. (Also, with any luck, I might not have to haggle with Yaqi about a refund.)
glad you are seeing results but i wouldn't have that kind of patience for a 5 hour gig on top of what you've been doing
now for an update on the damaged bathroom caulk?
Good luck.
If it is at all possible, I would let your brush dry completely and see how it is once that has taken place. Things seem to be moving in the right direction in any case.
If it is at all possible, I would let your brush dry completely and see how it is once that has taken place. Things seem to be moving in the right direction in any case.
Progress!!! ... It's a Christmas miracle!! 
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Your patience and/or persistence is amazing.
Happy shaves,
Jim
Happy shaves,
Jim
You're a better man than I am. I would have insisted the vendor return my money or I'd burn his place down.
Information that is way too late: Semogue makes a really nice badger brush with no smell. I have not had to de-funk one of my 6 Semogue brushes.
I do have an Omega B&B boar that stunk for quite a while.
Information that is way too late: Semogue makes a really nice badger brush with no smell. I have not had to de-funk one of my 6 Semogue brushes.
I do have an Omega B&B boar that stunk for quite a while.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
I don't think I've noticed enough smell or dirtiness to worry about with any of my brushes (with one exception). Probably most of mine have had no smell, and that includes boars, or a tiny bit of smell which went away with the little bit of washing I do with all new brushes.
A number of my brushes probably didn't even really need the initial washing. They got it anyway, just to make sure, but it could have been skipped. Perhaps a few needed a little bit extra, but I'm talking here so little extra it almost doesn't register.
I have at least two Yaqi two bands and at least three Stirling finest brushes (which are said to be made by Yaqi) and haven't had issues with them being dirty or funky. All were washed but not much.
The one brush which was an exception? My Zenith extra soft horse. It had a very definite horse smell and some brown water was noticeable in the wash water. I'm not saying either were a big deal, but it took a bit more washing than my other brushes. However, it was not in the league with the OP's Yaqi brush which is, in my opinion, a brush which shouldn't have passed Yaqi's QC checks.
I would think Yaqi would be happy to replace it or offer a refund if it doesn't soon entirely suit the OP.
Happy shaves,
Jim
A number of my brushes probably didn't even really need the initial washing. They got it anyway, just to make sure, but it could have been skipped. Perhaps a few needed a little bit extra, but I'm talking here so little extra it almost doesn't register.
I have at least two Yaqi two bands and at least three Stirling finest brushes (which are said to be made by Yaqi) and haven't had issues with them being dirty or funky. All were washed but not much.
The one brush which was an exception? My Zenith extra soft horse. It had a very definite horse smell and some brown water was noticeable in the wash water. I'm not saying either were a big deal, but it took a bit more washing than my other brushes. However, it was not in the league with the OP's Yaqi brush which is, in my opinion, a brush which shouldn't have passed Yaqi's QC checks.
I would think Yaqi would be happy to replace it or offer a refund if it doesn't soon entirely suit the OP.
Happy shaves,
Jim
YIKES!! You are far more patient that I would be!!
I'm viewing this thread with some apprehension as I received my final 11.11 purchase on Saturday. Two band Moka Express and Silver Tip Black resin. I unpacked them and gave them a sniff. Nothing unusual. But one can't be sure until they've been wet. I know more tonight.
I bought a Yaqi two-band during the 11.11 sale. It did not have much smell, but it did have a bit of funkiness when wet, like a barnyard odor. Nothing like what you have been dealing with, though.
Oxiclean seems to break down the odor molecules somehow, so I have found the mixture of Oxiclean with unscented laundry detergent to be fairly effective. I would wash out the knot and the handle (total immersion and agitation), just don't let the knot soak for very long. There seems to be something in the knot base that will continue to haunt you until it is gone.
Oxiclean seems to break down the odor molecules somehow, so I have found the mixture of Oxiclean with unscented laundry detergent to be fairly effective. I would wash out the knot and the handle (total immersion and agitation), just don't let the knot soak for very long. There seems to be something in the knot base that will continue to haunt you until it is gone.
I have a Yaqi two-band that had some real funk to it. But after a handful of soaping and washings, combined with an overnight soak all lathered up, the funk was gone. Nothing at all like you are experiencing. A chunk of glue fell out? I imagine it was a small one, but that has me worried for you. This is not normal. I had a quality control issue with a Yaqi handle and after some pictures, they agreed to replace the brush. You don't have to torture yourself or be disappointed. You can ask Yaqi to make it right. With me, they did.
Chandu
I Waxed The Badger.
I feel for you. I just wouldn't have the patience you do. I'd send all the moka express brown liquid back to them.
You mentioned oily and I got to thinking about animals and oily secretions. I'm wondering if the brown stuff is the first thing that comes to mind or perhaps it's from hair around scent glands.
"Badgers have the ability to produce a very unpleasant smell through their anal glands when being threatened or giving a warning. These excretions are also used in communication, to mark out territories and to guide badgers around their boundaries by spraying pathways and landmarks. " Badger - Animal Corner - https://animalcorner.co.uk/animals/badger/
In any case, Yaqi completely failed on this brush. I would ask for a refund.
You mentioned oily and I got to thinking about animals and oily secretions. I'm wondering if the brown stuff is the first thing that comes to mind or perhaps it's from hair around scent glands.
"Badgers have the ability to produce a very unpleasant smell through their anal glands when being threatened or giving a warning. These excretions are also used in communication, to mark out territories and to guide badgers around their boundaries by spraying pathways and landmarks. " Badger - Animal Corner - https://animalcorner.co.uk/animals/badger/
In any case, Yaqi completely failed on this brush. I would ask for a refund.
I had one boar brush stunk for months, and still does a bit. At one point I thought I finally got it, but nope, the stink hovers around whatever shave soap is being used at the time. If you really think about it, those stinky hairs are in the glue holding the knot together. I would imagine just using the brush over time will cause some glue flexing/degradation where the hair exits the knot and will forever exude some level of funk. Just a theory of course.
My advice? Don't waste your time. There are way too many great brushes out there that have zero to barely any stink whatsoever when brand new. Yaqi very likely did not even bother to clean the hairs whatsoever before building your brush, I'd ask them for a refund or replacement.
My advice? Don't waste your time. There are way too many great brushes out there that have zero to barely any stink whatsoever when brand new. Yaqi very likely did not even bother to clean the hairs whatsoever before building your brush, I'd ask them for a refund or replacement.
- Thread starter
- #36
Gentlemen,
Thanks again for your continued interest in my little carnival sideshow! By now, you have realized that I am an extremely obsessive person that must see a project through to its end. Here's the next progress report (another long one... but with good news):
As you recall, after the OxiClean soak, I immersed the brush in plain water overnight. This morning, the water was a bit cloudy, but not brown. Also, the brush did not emit as foul an odour as before. These are major improvements.
To give the brush a rest after being constantly immersed for nearly 48 hours, I left it to dry for 16 hours (@djh must have read my mind).
As expected, the smell of the nearly-dry brush is minimal. It's close to what I've come to expect almost any other new natural hair brush to smell like. However, to get this brush to this stage definitely proves that it is the exception.
Anyway, late this evening, I began the next stage of my cleaning process. With some research, I devised a solution consisting of:
1/4 teaspoon sodium tetraborate (borax)
1/4 teaspoon sodium percarbonate (primary component of OxiClean)
1/2 teaspoon sodium carbonate (washing soda)
1 teaspoon Orvus paste (pH-neutral non-ionic soap largely composed of sodium lauryl sulfate: the dreaded "SLS")
300 ml (~1.25 cups) hot water in a large coffee mug
The first three ingredients appear to be the basic components of Classic Shaving's brush cleaning powder. The alkilinity of this mixture is very high, making it extremely effective at cutting grease. However, to prevent caustic burns (to either me or the brush), I added the Orvus to bring the pH down. Orvus is also an excellent detergent and oil dispersant.
Then, following the directions for the above-mentioned powder, I immersed the brush in the solution and agitated it every 10 minutes for one hour. (This solution stings your hands. If anybody else tries it, I'd suggest wearing rubber gloves.)
After an hour, I fished the brush out and rinsed it thoroughly with cold water. The knot felt more limp than when I started, so the thought crossed my mind that I'd ruined it. But, it must have been due to the hot water; it firmed up again after the cold water rinse.
I held the brush to my nose and I was pleasantly surprised; the funk is barely detectable. There's still a slight "wet dog" smell, but not any stronger than my other badger brushes.
After rinsing the brush extremely thoroughly, I decided to test it by lathering up and shaving (at 2:30 am
). In a nutshell, it still performs as well as it did in previous days, but without making me retch from the odour! So, for now, I'm going to assume that the smell is mostly gone and that the brush won't eventually disintegrate from my cleaning process.
So, here are my final thoughts: There must have been a glob of something noxious at the base of the knot. Once it was washed out, the brush acted like a new natural hair brush. The borax/OxiClean/washing soda/Orvus solution got the last bits of the gunk out. It also expedited the de-funking/odour removal.
It's possible that if I had tried this method right from the start, then maybe it would have saved me more than a week of grief.
I don't think that I'll ask for a refund. The brush has been an excellent performer since I got it; the only issues were the stench and brown gunk. Having said that, I may think twice before buying another direct-from-China badger brush.
@Rhody: I used the left-over solution to wash the stains off of the tub caulking. It wiped right off with a sponge. I don't think that it was actually eating into it. It was probably just the contrast between the striations in the white caulking and the brown gunk that made it look like it was etching it. At least, I hope it wasn't actually eating into it.
@Everybody: Thanks again for your observations, suggestions, and comments. As always, B&B users continue to educate and enlighten me.
With gratitude,
Derrick
Thanks again for your continued interest in my little carnival sideshow! By now, you have realized that I am an extremely obsessive person that must see a project through to its end. Here's the next progress report (another long one... but with good news):
As you recall, after the OxiClean soak, I immersed the brush in plain water overnight. This morning, the water was a bit cloudy, but not brown. Also, the brush did not emit as foul an odour as before. These are major improvements.
To give the brush a rest after being constantly immersed for nearly 48 hours, I left it to dry for 16 hours (@djh must have read my mind).
As expected, the smell of the nearly-dry brush is minimal. It's close to what I've come to expect almost any other new natural hair brush to smell like. However, to get this brush to this stage definitely proves that it is the exception.
Anyway, late this evening, I began the next stage of my cleaning process. With some research, I devised a solution consisting of:
1/4 teaspoon sodium tetraborate (borax)
1/4 teaspoon sodium percarbonate (primary component of OxiClean)
1/2 teaspoon sodium carbonate (washing soda)
1 teaspoon Orvus paste (pH-neutral non-ionic soap largely composed of sodium lauryl sulfate: the dreaded "SLS")
300 ml (~1.25 cups) hot water in a large coffee mug
The first three ingredients appear to be the basic components of Classic Shaving's brush cleaning powder. The alkilinity of this mixture is very high, making it extremely effective at cutting grease. However, to prevent caustic burns (to either me or the brush), I added the Orvus to bring the pH down. Orvus is also an excellent detergent and oil dispersant.
Then, following the directions for the above-mentioned powder, I immersed the brush in the solution and agitated it every 10 minutes for one hour. (This solution stings your hands. If anybody else tries it, I'd suggest wearing rubber gloves.)
After an hour, I fished the brush out and rinsed it thoroughly with cold water. The knot felt more limp than when I started, so the thought crossed my mind that I'd ruined it. But, it must have been due to the hot water; it firmed up again after the cold water rinse.
I held the brush to my nose and I was pleasantly surprised; the funk is barely detectable. There's still a slight "wet dog" smell, but not any stronger than my other badger brushes.
After rinsing the brush extremely thoroughly, I decided to test it by lathering up and shaving (at 2:30 am
). In a nutshell, it still performs as well as it did in previous days, but without making me retch from the odour! So, for now, I'm going to assume that the smell is mostly gone and that the brush won't eventually disintegrate from my cleaning process. So, here are my final thoughts: There must have been a glob of something noxious at the base of the knot. Once it was washed out, the brush acted like a new natural hair brush. The borax/OxiClean/washing soda/Orvus solution got the last bits of the gunk out. It also expedited the de-funking/odour removal.
It's possible that if I had tried this method right from the start, then maybe it would have saved me more than a week of grief.
I don't think that I'll ask for a refund. The brush has been an excellent performer since I got it; the only issues were the stench and brown gunk. Having said that, I may think twice before buying another direct-from-China badger brush.
@Rhody: I used the left-over solution to wash the stains off of the tub caulking. It wiped right off with a sponge. I don't think that it was actually eating into it. It was probably just the contrast between the striations in the white caulking and the brown gunk that made it look like it was etching it. At least, I hope it wasn't actually eating into it.
@Everybody: Thanks again for your observations, suggestions, and comments. As always, B&B users continue to educate and enlighten me.
With gratitude,
Derrick
So if you combine cleaning ingredients and your time you've now paid $157. for this brush.
well, I hope the brush performs well. I have had some dirty, stinky brushes in my time, but yours was the dirtiest/stinkiest!
Rhody
I'm a Lumberjack.
After all that there is a slight wet dog smell. The next step is a soak in gasoline and a matchGentlemen,
Thanks again for your continued interest in my little carnival sideshow! By now, you have realized that I am an extremely obsessive person that must see a project through to its end. Here's the next progress report (another long one... but with good news):
As you recall, after the OxiClean soak, I immersed the brush in plain water overnight. This morning, the water was a bit cloudy, but not brown. Also, the brush did not emit as foul an odour as before. These are major improvements.
To give the brush a rest after being constantly immersed for nearly 48 hours, I left it to dry for 16 hours (@djh must have read my mind).
As expected, the smell of the nearly-dry brush is minimal. It's close to what I've come to expect almost any other new natural hair brush to smell like. However, to get this brush to this stage definitely proves that it is the exception.
Anyway, late this evening, I began the next stage of my cleaning process. With some research, I devised a solution consisting of:
1/4 teaspoon sodium tetraborate (borax)
1/4 teaspoon sodium percarbonate (primary component of OxiClean)
1/2 teaspoon sodium carbonate (washing soda)
1 teaspoon Orvus paste (pH-neutral non-ionic soap largely composed of sodium lauryl sulfate: the dreaded "SLS")
300 ml (~1.25 cups) hot water in a large coffee mug
The first three ingredients appear to be the basic components of Classic Shaving's brush cleaning powder. The alkilinity of this mixture is very high, making it extremely effective at cutting grease. However, to prevent caustic burns (to either me or the brush), I added the Orvus to bring the pH down. Orvus is also an excellent detergent and oil dispersant.
Then, following the directions for the above-mentioned powder, I immersed the brush in the solution and agitated it every 10 minutes for one hour. (This solution stings your hands. If anybody else tries it, I'd suggest wearing rubber gloves.)
After an hour, I fished the brush out and rinsed it thoroughly with cold water. The knot felt more limp than when I started, so the thought crossed my mind that I'd ruined it. But, it must have been due to the hot water; it firmed up again after the cold water rinse.
I held the brush to my nose and I was pleasantly surprised; the funk is barely detectable. There's still a slight "wet dog" smell, but not any stronger than my other badger brushes.
After rinsing the brush extremely thoroughly, I decided to test it by lathering up and shaving (at 2:30 am
So, here are my final thoughts: There must have been a glob of something noxious at the base of the knot. Once it was washed out, the brush acted like a new natural hair brush. The borax/OxiClean/washing soda/Orvus solution got the last bits of the gunk out. It also expedited the de-funking/odour removal.
It's possible that if I had tried this method right from the start, then maybe it would have saved me more than a week of grief.
I don't think that I'll ask for a refund. The brush has been an excellent performer since I got it; the only issues were the stench and brown gunk. Having said that, I may think twice before buying another direct-from-China badger brush.
@Rhody: I used the left-over solution to wash the stains off of the tub caulking. It wiped right off with a sponge. I don't think that it was actually eating into it. It was probably just the contrast between the striations in the white caulking and the brown gunk that made it look like it was etching it. At least, I hope it wasn't actually eating into it.
@Everybody: Thanks again for your observations, suggestions, and comments. As always, B&B users continue to educate and enlighten me.
With gratitude,
Derrick
This is going to sound a bit weird, but if you have spell of sunny, dry weather, and it's not too cold, you could expose the brush to sunlight and fresh air for a few hours. That may help get rid of the last of that bad smell.
