Glock trigger upgrade

[dojpros]

Ramble follows. You have been warned.

The tolerance variations/stacking of Glocks and clones are such that it can be more art than science to getting a consistent trigger from gun to gun, let alone in a clone. I know that I have had to mix/match connectors in number of Gen 3 OEM guns before "making" a practice/carry set of pistols in 9 and .40. IIRC, Team Glock, way back in the day, would test fire varies trigger assemblies and bag them together such that if a trigger went down, all the guts came out and the "replacement" set went in wholesale to have a trigger that "felt" the same as the broken one.

I wrote the following in 2012 in BOLD re use of modified guns/parts etc. re how it MAY have been an issue in a given case but NOT easily citable upon demand. Note light edits in brackets:


I am not your lawyer, I am not giving legal advice:

Fellow [B and B ers], as a practicing atty for the better part of 20 [30 ] years and a prosecutor for 15 [25] of those, I would offer the following:


Not being able to find reported cases is not the same thing as the modified gun issue ( as a detriment to the shooter or a help to the shooter) having not reared its head in both the criminal and civil contexts.


The vast majority of both civil and criminal cases are settled or plead out. In many civil cases, there are non disclosure agreements.

Most criminal cases are resolved via plea. Most of those receive very little press and the press they receive is often mistaken regarding key issues within the matter.


Even when a case goes to trial, many of them are not appealed such that their results are not "reported". Therefore, no easily searchable legal database (Lexis or Westlaw) has the results. Even when a case is appealed, many of them are not "reported" to those same legal publishers again making finding out what happened in those cases very difficult.


In short, it is only a small fraction of civil and criminal cases that actually go all the way thru to appeal and have their results "reported or published." Even in those cases, they were often selected and indexed based on other specific points of law ( i.e. search and seizure, instructions to a jury on lesser included offense i.e. manslaughter in a homicide case, errors in jury selection/composition etc., general sufficiency of the evidence etc. ) such that there may be little or no mention of how a "gun modification" fit into the larger case.

2023 Comments

Ever one wants to exercise their gift of freewill, few want responsibility of consequence.

All of my EDC Glocks have Glock OEM parts in their trigger controls.

I was considering some non OEM lowers as my g34/g35 OEM training lowers are now my edc lowers for OEM g17/g22 uppers upon which ride Holosun 507 and Aimpoint P2, respectively.

Repeated anecdotes re trigger issues with Non OEM lowers and Clones have me looking to buy a gen 3 G17 and a gen 3 G22 complete OEM lower with OEM parts because I value reliability above any other factor in an potential platform.

Glocks are first and foremost an intersection of quality/value/reliability preposition on their best day. If you want a shorter, consistent trigger pull with a distinct wall (glass rod?!?!?) and break, followed by a short, tactile/audible reset, the Glock Trigger system, even when augmented by a quality aftermarket provider like Apex, may leave you wanting, particularly if your frame of reference is a 1911 or another single action trigger.


Let us know how it goes.

 

[OkieStubble]

PSA Dagger triggers are horrible from everything I read. He needs a better trigger period. PSA states it will accept Glock Gen3 OEM and aftermarket parts which will reliably improve his trigger. People need to realize the differences between a ‘parts swap’ and a true design alterating ‘modification’ of a firearm. They are not one and the same and saying so is a false narrative.

If he uses it in a easily definable and justifiable self defense incident, if he doesn’t live in one of the few states who’s court system’s enjoy setting the criminal free, while attempting to prosecute the innocent who we’re legally defending themselves?

That grand jury and all participants involved are not going to give a damn about the polish job he did and the aftermarket plastic trigger he added in order to justifiably use the castle doctrine in his state and city.

Naysayers and fear mongers miles may vary.

 

[ODJ]

My advice would be to shoot t stock for a while (not just one trip to the range) and only then decide if it even needs anything including the trigger to be changed. Even better, run that Glock through a couple multi-day courses and and then decide.

I own two Gen3 Glock 17's and all I hasve ever done to them is a very light polishing job on the trigger components and added an OEM Glock dot connector. Nothing else. They don't need it. If you can't shoot a Glock well it's because you have to work on your presentation, grip and trigger control, period. Swapping a bunch of stuff out and spending all kinds of money on expensive triggers and what not only decreases the reliability of the firearm.

Of all the classes I've attended over the last several years it never fails, the guys who end up having the most trouble with their guns not running properly, have the most stoppages, malfunctions and overall issues are the ones who went to town and modified their Glocks. They're trying to correct bad technique by throwing money at the firearm and in doing so now also compromised the reliability.

My EDC is a stock S&W Shield. Not even a Shield Plus, but an original Shield. I can easily shoot fist size groups with that thing at 25 yards consistently. When I first bought that firearm I hated it and I sucked with it. Lot's of dry practice and a range trip once a week with a box of ammo and only shooting to 25 yards and I was dialed in for my range qualification for my CCW.

So my recommendation would be spend more time dry practicing with the pistol in it's stock form and take so classes with it to run it through it's paces to see if it even needs anything. Most time it doesn't, and any issues are usually shooter induced, and changing out internals is only going to hold you back in the long run and mask your shortcomings. After a class you'll know pretty quick what you like and don't like about the firearm.

 

[OkieStubble]

My advice would be to shoot t stock for a while (not just one trip to the range) and only then decide if it even needs anything including the trigger to be changed. Even better, run that Glock through a couple multi-day courses and and then decide.

I own two Gen3 Glock 17's and all I hasve ever done to them is a very light polishing job on the trigger components and added an OEM Glock dot connector. Nothing else. They don't need it. If you can't shoot a Glock well it's because you have to work on your presentation, grip and trigger control, period. Swapping a bunch of stuff out and spending all kinds of money on expensive triggers and what not only decreases the reliability of the firearm.

Of all the classes I've attended over the last several years it never fails, the guys who end up having the most trouble with their guns not running properly, have the most stoppages, malfunctions and overall issues are the ones who went to town and modified their Glocks. They're trying to correct bad technique by throwing money at the firearm and in doing so now also compromised the reliability.

My EDC is a stock S&W Shield. Not even a Shield Plus, but an original Shield. I can easily shoot fist size groups with that thing at 25 yards consistently. When I first bought that firearm I hated it and I sucked with it. Lot's of dry practice and a range trip once a week with a box of ammo and only shooting to 25 yards and I was dialed in for my range qualification for my CCW.

So my recommendation would be spend more time dry practicing with the pistol in it's stock form and take so classes with it to run it through it's paces to see if it even needs anything. Most time it doesn't, and any issues are usually shooter induced, and changing out internals is only going to hold you back in the long run and mask your shortcomings. After a class you'll know pretty quick what you like and don't like about the firearm.

This is a well thought out and articulate post my friend. And I would absolutely agree with it; if the OP owned a Glock? But his pistol he asked for trigger advice on, is a Glock type clone that is manufactured by Palmetto State Armory? I agree with you, that one should first, dry fire their Glock OEM triggers and then also, put a 1,000 rounds down range and see how that Glock trigger smooths out before doing anything to it. But The PSA clone? Everything I am reading online from those who are experienced pistol aficionados are saying it’s trigger needs some help?

 

[ODJ]

This is a well thought out and articulate post my friend. And I would absolutely agree with it; if the OP owned a Glock? But his pistol he asked for trigger advice on, is a Glock type clone that is manufactured by Palmetto State Armory? I agree with you, that one should first, dry fire their Glock OEM triggers and then also, put a 1,000 rounds down range and see how that Glock trigger smooths out before doing anything to it. But The PSA clone? Everything I am reading online from those who are experienced pistol aficionados are saying it’s trigger needs some help?

You can buy OEM Glock triggers that you can drop into a clone super easy and they're way cheaper than any of the aftermarket triggers.

Funny, because most "aficionados" (people whose lives depend on their firearms) are usually the ones telling others not to mess with the stock triggers. Completely different story if you're shooting in competitions. You can change and modify you're firearm (including the trigger) all you want, and if it goes click when it should go bang, or makes no sound at all it's not your life on the line, just maybe a little bit of embarrassment or frustration. But if it's a carry gun that you may have to trust your life to some day, I'd stick with what's proven.

I was in a multi-day class with a buddy who spent a LOT of money on an aftermarket trigger from a very well-known guy who specializes in Glock triggers. I will admit his trigger felt nice. For the cost of a tiny tube of polish and an OEM Glock "dot" connector my trigger was like 80%-85 there compared to his. He also had to make two trips to the armorer during that multi-day class because he was having issues with his trigger. Light primer strikes one time and the trigger wasn't resetting on another day. I also shot way better than he did with more consistent and tighter groups and scored higher on the test at the end despite him having way more experience than me. In other classes, 9 times out of 10 the guy who's having trouble with his firearm is the one who thought he could make it better and modify it from stock, and now instead of focusing on what's being taught in the class and getting better they're not paying attention and have to troubleshoot the issues their having. Or you get the guy with the heavily modified firearm who still can't shoot because they have horrible fundamentals and think that modifying a firearm is the quick path to being a better shooter.

Too many people blame the firearm when in the end it's really the shooter's lack of technique and not putting in the time to dry practice and when possible go to the range. I have gone 6 months or so without firing a live round and only dry practicing at home and then taking a class and have improved immensely. I actually enjoy dry practice but understand why others don't, but that's the one thing that will improve your shooting.

 

[OkieStubble]

You can buy OEM Glock triggers that you can drop into a clone super easy and they're way cheaper than any of the aftermarket triggers.

You are one of the very few, who would consider replacing a junk trigger from a clone with an OEM…. Why? Because most Glock owners? Consider OEM Glock triggers to also be junk? What this means? Is guys like you and me are not only the minority in our views of the Glock stock factory triggers, but we are actually anomalies?

So, us two against the world? The huge masses of the Glock owning community who replace their triggers with quality after market triggers from very reputable companies should follow both of our logic because…?

By golly we are both right! Eventually though it’s just us in here, alone… with our logic?

Do you hear the wind blowing thru these silent, empty halls?

I own 7 Glocks. I have several that are bone stock and have had thousands of rounds thru them. They are very well used and very smooth. I also have a few Glocks that will probably never see that kind of use or round count in order to make them, OEM, sweet shooters.

In example, I have a Glock 43X EDC. It’s had a couple thousand rounds thru it now over the years, but there was no way for me to guesstimate of it would have been shot that much. I don’t know how old you are, but speaking for myself, as I get older; then chances and/or urge to spend my days at rockem sockem run & gun training venues, starts to wain significantly.

So, my 43X started out with a Ghost connector intilyGlock finally got around to redesigning their OEM connector when they first came out with it years ago. Their original OEM connector gave it a 9 pound trigger pull even though it said 5.5 on the box.

While Glock won’t give me the personal credit for this redesign, if you have a G43X you have recent purchased, you can thank me for it’s excellent trigger.

Funny, because most "aficionados" (people whose lives depend on their firearms) are usually the ones telling others not to mess with the stock triggers.

I guess this all depends on your definitions. I know plenty of aficionados who are very well trained and knowledgeable in firearms; and their lives have never had to depend on it? I also personally know of people who have actually had to defend their lives with a firearm, but I haven’t seen them standing on a soap box preaching the virtues of Glock stock triggers.

If this is your personal logic and philosophy I see no problem or argument. But in my experience I have seen people who attempt to say stuff like this and then in the same breath try to justify amd tell others why they need to change out their stock Glock sights for aftermarket sights because Glocks goalpost rear sucks so bad?

Respectfully, in my humble personal opinion, if you have after market sights on your Glock? Then your OEM argument seems a bit hypocritical and falls kind of flat for me? Who are we to say everyone else is only right in changing what we thought needs to be changed and wrong if they don’t agree with what I have done or not done to my Glock?

Completely different story if you're shooting in competitions. You can change and modify you're firearm (including the trigger) all you want, and if it goes click when it should go bang, or makes no sound at all it's not your life on the line, just maybe a little bit of embarrassment or frustration. But if it's a carry gun that you may have to trust your life to some day, I'd stick with what's proven.

if you put aftermarket sights on your Glock, are you going to holster it and wait for a life trusting moment before trying to see if they work for you? I think you are smart won’t to do that?

And even though Glock has a famous reputation of reliability, how many rounds did you shoot at the range to make sure your OEM trigger backed up that reputation Before carrying it?

Do you think other Glock owners with aftermarket triggers are not as smart as you and won’t take their pistols to the range and put countless rounds thru their Glocks to make sure they are 100% good to go before they carry them?

Question: Have you ever seen a OEM Glock striker spring break? Trigger springs? I have. I have actually witnessed a safety plunger spring compressed flat and needing replacement just from the sheer amount of rounds thru it.

Other then John Moses Browning’s 1911, Glock’s genius design of simple replaceable parts, allows for many quality aftermarket companies to manufacture enhanced parts that are not only reliable but ground breaking in their ingenuity of design. That’s the Glock world we live in now. You and I are dinosaurs.

I was in a multi-day class with a buddy who spent a LOT of money on an aftermarket trigger from a very well-known guy who specializes in Glock triggers. I will admit his trigger felt nice. For the cost of a tiny tube of polish and an OEM Glock "dot" connector my trigger was like 80%-85 there compared to his. He also had to make two trips to the armorer during that multi-day class because he was having issues with his trigger. Light primer strikes one time and the trigger wasn't resetting on another day. I also shot way better than he did with more consistent and tighter groups and scored higher on the test at the end despite him having way more experience than me. In other classes, 9 times out of 10 the guy who's having trouble with his firearm is the one who thought he could make it better and modify it from stock, and now instead of focusing on what's being taught in the class and getting better they're not paying attention and have to troubleshoot the issues their having. Or you get the guy with the heavily modified firearm who still can't shoot because they have horrible fundamentals and think that modifying a firearm is the quick path to being a better shooter.

Too many people blame the firearm when in the end it's really the shooter's lack of technique and not putting in the time to dry practice and when possible go to the range. I have gone 6 months or so without firing a live round and only dry practicing at home and then taking a class and have improved immensely. I actually enjoy dry practice but understand why others don't, but that's the one thing that will improve your shooting.

Just as you and I are anomalies, so to; is your buddy with his aftermarket trigger. For every personal hypothetical story you could post as a negative, there are a million other positive stories that can be used anecdotally to show a counter argument as to the positives of upgrading a Glock that needs it.

 

[ODJ]

if you put aftermarket sights on your Glock, are you going to holster it and wait for a life trusting moment before trying to see if they work for you? I think you are smart won’t to do that?

And even though Glock has a famous reputation of reliability, how many rounds did you shoot at the range to make sure your OEM trigger backed up that reputation Before carrying it?

Do you think other Glock owners with aftermarket triggers are not as smart as you and won’t take their pistols to the range and put countless rounds thru their Glocks to make sure they are 100% good to go before they carry them?

Question: Have you ever seen a OEM Glock striker spring break? Trigger springs? I have. I have actually witnessed a safety plunger spring compressed flat and needing replacement just from the sheer amount of rounds thru it.

Other then John Moses Browning’s 1911, Glock’s genius design of simple replaceable parts, allows for many quality aftermarket companies to manufacture enhanced parts that are not only reliable but ground breaking in their ingenuity of design. That’s the Glock world we live in now. You and I are dinosaurs.

You can come up with all kinds of "what if's", including some very far-fetched extreme scenarios to try and prove a point. it happens all the time on Internet forums where someone will attempt to dispel what someone else said by throwing out some really random, one-off, bizarre example that is far from the norm.

I'm just speaking from my personal experience. Your experience may be different. My experience just comes through putting a lot of rounds through my G17's in many different types of classes; defensive handgun, tactical handgun, close-quarters handgun, 2-man team tactics handgun classes...For all of these classes 95% of the time it's been a G17. I've also run Beretta M9A1's, 1911's and a CZ SP-01. I'm not even a Glock fan per se, but for those classes and that type of training the Glock has proved to me the best choice (for me). Super easy to operate, no sharp edges to snag or chew up your hands, no manual safeties to fuss with, and it is SUPER easy to diagnose, service and fix in the field in the rare event that it ever goes down.

You asked if I have ever seen a trigger spring break on a Glock? Actually, yes I have a few months ago this past March. That was the only time I have ever seen it happen with a Glock, and it was 100% stock, all original and he said he had never replaced a thing on it and the gun was beat to hell and like 20 years old! I best of he actually did some maintenance to it over the years it might not have even happened, but who knows. But stating that you've seen Glocks trigger springs break in the field and using that as an example really isn't valid without knowing the age of the gun, how many rounds have been through it, how well the owner has maintained the firearm over the years, etc. Like I mentioned before, the overwhelming majority of the time when a Glock has issues in the field its because of operator error and something the owner changed on the gun.

I don't think I'm following your logic on the adding sights and waiting for a life-threatening moment" to test them out. Not sure what I wrote before that would prompt that comment. Comparing messing with the internals of a firearm and trying to compare that to changing sights, a mag release, etc. are apple to oranges. Sights have no effect or the firing mechanism. Also, how would someone even know what they want to change without even putting the firearm through it's paces first? But I guess that's what most people do these days. They just throw money at stuff and start replacing it even after the first trip to the range or a class. And while we're on that topic, there is a big difference between going to the range and taking an actual class where you have to perform in different scenarios and situations and in many times under time pressure, constantly drawing from the holster, moving, diagnosing and fixing malfunctions, etc. Very different that just standing static in a bay and shooting paper, and usually involves reinforcing bad habits. I guess I figured that out pretty quick, but I'd much prefer to spend any "extra" money paying for training instead of "upgrades" to a firearm.

I'm also not saying the Glock trigger is amazing, because it's not, but it's good enough for a defensive weapon, and when most lay people say it sucks what they're really saying is they don't know how to shoot properly. Believe me, if someone like me can rip a ragged hole with 5 shots from a Glock at say, 10 yards, anyone can if they spend more time practicing instead of thinking they can make up lack of skill with just replacing stuff on the firearm.

I don't think my stories including my buddy's are anomalies given that I've seen it happen in almost very class I've taken. The guy having issues with his firearm is usually the guy who thinks he could make it "better" by replacing the trigger. As mentioned I've seen modified triggers not resetting, guys who mess with the recoil springs, etc., have had issues with the firearm not cycling properly and/or not going into battery, light primer strikes, etc. It seems to be a recurring theme over the years and not jsut isolated incidents.

And I am far from modding firearms. Both go my G17's have had the slides milled for red dots, and before that was running aftermarket sights and both have Tango Down Vickers extended mag releases. All changes I made over time after running them through classes figuring out what I though needed improvement (for example, OEN Gen3 slide releases are pretty much flush to the frame and suck, so they were replaced). Just never felt the need to replace/compromise the reliability of the stock triggers aside from experimenting with OEM connectors, and my shooting speaks for itself.

 

[Rob72]

Meh. I've carried & shot Glocks since 1991. I'm not a fan of tweaking the connector/bar geometry and some of the aftermarket parts are atrocious (e.g., NOT Apex or Ghost, IME).

Apex is just too much for a comparatively modest return that the vast majority of shooters won't be skilled enough to appreciate. E.g., I run Ghost OT bar connectors & Vickers trigger shoes, and the $0.25 polish. Smooth, consistent, no hesitation on pullthrough. Apex is very nice, but if I'm snatching my pistol out of my pants, my $60 investment is every bit the equal of the $130 set up.

Does your set up make you able to make hits more accurately, faster? Do you have certificates demonstrating training and proficiency? Are you able to verbalize threat assessment and escalation?

If you are able to answer these in the affirmative, you're as legally sound as you can be. If not, address the deficiencies.

 

[OkieStubble]

You can come up with all kinds of "what if's", including some very far-fetched extreme scenarios to try and prove a point. it happens all the time on Internet forums where someone will attempt to dispel what someone else said by throwing out some really random, one-off, bizarre example that is far from the norm.

I'm just speaking from my personal experience. Your experience may be different. My experience just comes through putting a lot of rounds through my G17's in many different types of classes; defensive handgun, tactical handgun, close-quarters handgun, 2-man team tactics handgun classes...For all of these classes 95% of the time it's been a G17. I've also run Beretta M9A1's, 1911's and a CZ SP-01. I'm not even a Glock fan per se, but for those classes and that type of training the Glock has proved to me the best choice (for me). Super easy to operate, no sharp edges to snag or chew up your hands, no manual safeties to fuss with, and it is SUPER easy to diagnose, service and fix in the field in the rare event that it ever goes down.

You asked if I have ever seen a trigger spring break on a Glock? Actually, yes I have a few months ago this past March. That was the only time I have ever seen it happen with a Glock, and it was 100% stock, all original and he said he had never replaced a thing on it and the gun was beat to hell and like 20 years old! I best of he actually did some maintenance to it over the years it might not have even happened, but who knows. But stating that you've seen Glocks trigger springs break in the field and using that as an example really isn't valid without knowing the age of the gun, how many rounds have been through it, how well the owner has maintained the firearm over the years, etc. Like I mentioned before, the overwhelming majority of the time when a Glock has issues in the field its because of operator error and something the owner changed on the gun.

I don't think I'm following your logic on the adding sights and waiting for a life-threatening moment" to test them out. Not sure what I wrote before that would prompt that comment. Comparing messing with the internals of a firearm and trying to compare that to changing sights, a mag release, etc. are apple to oranges. Sights have no effect or the firing mechanism. Also, how would someone even know what they want to change without even putting the firearm through it's paces first? But I guess that's what most people do these days. They just throw money at stuff and start replacing it even after the first trip to the range or a class. And while we're on that topic, there is a big difference between going to the range and taking an actual class where you have to perform in different scenarios and situations and in many times under time pressure, constantly drawing from the holster, moving, diagnosing and fixing malfunctions, etc. Very different that just standing static in a bay and shooting paper, and usually involves reinforcing bad habits. I guess I figured that out pretty quick, but I'd much prefer to spend any "extra" money paying for training instead of "upgrades" to a firearm.

I'm also not saying the Glock trigger is amazing, because it's not, but it's good enough for a defensive weapon, and when most lay people say it sucks what they're really saying is they don't know how to shoot properly. Believe me, if someone like me can rip a ragged hole with 5 shots from a Glock at say, 10 yards, anyone can if they spend more time practicing instead of thinking they can make up lack of skill with just replacing stuff on the firearm.

I don't think my stories including my buddy's are anomalies given that I've seen it happen in almost very class I've taken. The guy having issues with his firearm is usually the guy who thinks he could make it "better" by replacing the trigger. As mentioned I've seen modified triggers not resetting, guys who mess with the recoil springs, etc., have had issues with the firearm not cycling properly and/or not going into battery, light primer strikes, etc. It seems to be a recurring theme over the years and not jsut isolated incidents.

And I am far from modding firearms. Both go my G17's have had the slides milled for red dots, and before that was running aftermarket sights and both have Tango Down Vickers extended mag releases. All changes I made over time after running them through classes figuring out what I though needed improvement (for example, OEN Gen3 slide releases are pretty much flush to the frame and suck, so they were replaced). Just never felt the need to replace/compromise the reliability of the stock triggers aside from experimenting with OEM connectors, and my shooting speaks for itself.

I have seen absolutely nothing in this post to disagree with?

My first post was a bit garbled, as it was a bad day for my early onset dementia.

I will make attempt to make it clearer for you. You are looking for a debate where there isn’t one.

1. I absolutely agree with everything in your post.

2. We are absolutely a lot alike in our opinions of the Glock OEM trigger being good enough.

3. I will go even further then you and say; the Glock OEM trigger “is more then good enough.”

However, my perspective and points have not changed.

1. You and I are anomalies in our logic and thought processes about the OEM trigger.

Why?

3. Because the largest percentage of Glock owners upgrade and change out their OEM sights, Connectors, triggers, etc…

4. You said; “it’s because they don’t want to take the time to learn to shoot the OEM. This is the only place I disagreed with you.

5. I said, it’s not because they can’t shoot, it’s because not only do they think Glock clone triggers suck, but they also think Glock OEM triggers suck also?

6. all aftermarket companies do not suck because you, “have a friend” who experienced troubles in a gun training class with his aftermarket trigger.

7. In fact, most aftermarket companies are pretty reliable with their products, because over the years they have realized Glock’s design is such a simple design, that they can produce better designs in parts and accessories and even making better frames with better geometry and grip angles etc? Ever heard of Polymer 80? Shadow Systems? Heck, Wilson Combat, Taran Tactical and a host of other companies can turn a Glock into something much better than an OEM Glock.

8. I’m a Glock fanboy and a Glock purist. You won’t get an argument from me on stock OEM Glocks being ‘good enough’. But aftermarket parts do make them better. Including the triggers. If you disagree? Then respectfully saying, you are wrong.

9. I own Glock models 43, 43X, 19, 20, 23, 30, 32. I am also a certified Glock Armorer.
I have done .25 cent trigger jobs to all of them except for the 19, because I used the Gen4 19 training cadets in the police academy. It only has somewhere in the vicinity of 20,000 rounds give or take a couple of cases here or there, because it replaced a Gen2 19 that I had at least 80,000 thru before that.

10. Both of those were and are great pistols. And they were bone cold stock. No trigger jobs, not even aftermarket sights. We’re they ‘good enough’? Yes indeed. Are all my other Glocks better because of their aftermarket sights, trigger jobs, connector’s etc? Yes they are better and perform better for me with their aftermarket upgrades.

 

[ODJ]

I have seen absolutely nothing in this post to disagree with?

My first post was a bit garbled, as it was a bad day for my early onset dementia.

I will make attempt to make it clearer for you. You are looking for a debate where there isn’t one.

1. I absolutely agree with everything in your post.

2. We are absolutely a lot alike in our opinions of the Glock OEM trigger being good enough.

3. I will go even further then you and say; the Glock OEM trigger “is more then good enough.”

However, my perspective and points have not changed.

1. You and I are anomalies in our logic and thought processes about the OEM trigger.

Why?

3. Because the largest percentage of Glock owners upgrade and change out their OEM sights, Connectors, triggers, etc…

4. You said; “it’s because they don’t want to take the time to learn to shoot the OEM. This is the only place I disagreed with you.

5. I said, it’s not because they can’t shoot, it’s because not only do they think Glock clone triggers suck, but they also think Glock OEM triggers suck also?

6. all aftermarket companies do not suck because you, “have a friend” who experienced troubles in a gun training class with his aftermarket trigger.

7. In fact, most aftermarket companies are pretty reliable with their products, because over the years they have realized Glock’s design is such a simple design, that they can produce better designs in parts and accessories and even making better frames with better geometry and grip angles etc? Ever heard of Polymer 80? Shadow Systems? Heck, Wilson Combat, Taran Tactical and a host of other companies can turn a Glock into something much better than an OEM Glock.

8. I’m a Glock fanboy and a Glock purist. You won’t get an argument from me on stock OEM Glocks being ‘good enough’. But aftermarket parts do make them better. Including the triggers. If you disagree? Then respectfully saying, you are wrong.

9. I own Glock models 43, 43X, 19, 20, 23, 30, 32. I am also a certified Glock Armorer.
I have done .25 cent trigger jobs to all of them except for the 19, because I used the Gen4 19 training cadets in the police academy. It only has somewhere in the vicinity of 20,000 rounds give or take a couple of cases here or there, because it replaced a Gen2 19 that I had at least 80,000 thru before that.

10. Both of those were and are great pistols. And they were bone cold stock. No trigger jobs, not even aftermarket sights. We’re they ‘good enough’? Yes indeed. Are all my other Glocks better because of their aftermarket sights, trigger jobs, connector’s etc? Yes they are better and perform better for me with their aftermarket upgrades.

You did it again. You twisted my words to try and make a point, but you incorrectly paraphrased what I said. If you go back and read what I wrote, I listed several other examples of seeing modified Glocks fail on differnt occasions, but you only chose to cherry pick one example of my buddy's Glock. Fail on your part, sir.

Also, you continued to lump things like changing out stock sights and triggers into the same category. Two VERY differnt things here as one affects the firing mechanism and the other does not. Gotta be on the same page talking about the same thing here fs we're going to have a discussion/debate.

I'm not discounting that my experience may be different than yours, but we also may have been in differnt situations. I take a LOT of classes and try to train with as many different instructors as I can and as many different types of classes. I do not compete, and only take defensive/tactical/close-quarters/CCW-type classes. It's been my experience that the students that end up having issues with their firearms malfunctioning or experiencing full-on stoppages are the ones who thought they could improve the firearm by changing out OEM firing group parts with aftermarket parts. Thats just been my experience. Yours may be different. But if someone is traveling to different states and taking classes with different organizations/different instructors and similar situations pop up, it says something.

 

[OkieStubble]

You did it again. You twisted my words to try and make a point, but you incorrectly paraphrased what I said. If you go back and read what I wrote, I listed several other examples of seeing modified Glocks fail on differnt occasions, but you only chose to cherry pick one example of my buddy's Glock. Fail on your part, sir.

Also, you continued to lump things like changing out stock sights and triggers into the same category. Two VERY differnt things here as one affects the firing mechanism and the other does not. Gotta be on the same page talking about the same thing here fs we're going to have a discussion/debate.

I'm not discounting that my experience may be different than yours, but we also may have been in differnt situations. I take a LOT of classes and try to train with as many different instructors as I can and as many different types of classes. I do not compete, and only take defensive/tactical/close-quarters/CCW-type classes. It's been my experience that the students that end up having issues with their firearms malfunctioning or experiencing full-on stoppages are the ones who thought they could improve the firearm by changing out OEM firing group parts with aftermarket parts. Thats just been my experience. Yours may be different. But if someone is traveling to different states and taking classes with different organizations/different instructors and similar situations pop up, it says something.

I tried to agree with you.


Well, we can easily google how popular and successful aftermarket Glock parts and accessories are with a huge population of The Glock owner’s community to verify my points?

Being capable of googling how many times you have personally been in the right place at the right time at all the many different gun training classes you have been to, in order to witness multiple Glock failures that you just happen to of had first hand personal knowledge of the fact, that all these other guys there, that were using aftermarket parts? In order to verify your points?

Not so much?

Have you met @dojpros ?

Just wondering, cuz he’s a DOJ and you are a ODJ? Kinda similar? And you both have a lot of gun training classes under your belts?

I’d bet y’all would get along great!

 

[DesertIguana]

Well my carry is stock, no enhancements.

When I was Law Dog in 70’s we carried wheel guns.

Yes we could do trigger job, but I forget how many pounds of trigger pull was required, department RO would check & certify.

My department would allow you to carry Smith & Wesson 39, or 59. Catch was you bought leather, supplied qualification Ammo, and duty Ammo. Few Deputies carried the semi autos.

Today most agencies are carrying semi auto, fee law dogs carry revolvers.

 

[Rob72]

I have to say, my favorite trigger related upgrade has been the gadget. It makes AIWB reholstering a more confident process.

 

[OkieStubble]

I have to say, my favorite trigger related upgrade has been the gadget. It makes AIWB reholstering a more confident process.

My OEM G19 trigger is very smooth after many thousands of rounds. But it still has the famed ‘Glock Bump’ and mushy travel just like all Glocks. My G20 has a .25 cent trigger job, Ghost 3.5 and an Apex tactical trigger shoe and it is one sweet, smooth shooter with no mush and a very clean break. Without hundreds of thousands of dollars of ammunition thru it.

And it’s as reliable as the sun rise.

 

[nikonNUT]

HK’s are ugly too? And their striker fired triggers are nothing to write home and tell Mom about?

@BSawhill

Many PSA Dagger owners are having the same experiences as you with the triggers, so you are not alone.

I have read and understand your OP perfectly. So I will guide you thru a step by step process which will improve your trigger and not cost you a lot of money.

Ready? Let’s begin:

1. Get this Apex Tactical Trigger Shoe for the Gen3 Glock 19.

Action Enhancement Trigger for Gen 3/4 Glock®

The Action Enhancement Trigger for Glock® pistols is the easiest, quickest upgrade to the Glock® trigger system, without reducing factory safety values.

www.apextactical.com

2. Get this 3.5 ‘Edge’ Connector from Ghost Inc.

GHOST EDGE 3.5 GEN 1-5

GHOST INC. GHOST EDGE 3.5 Gen 1-5 by Ghost Inc. Aftermarket Glock parts and Glock accessories by Ghost Inc triggers, connectors, baseplates, and slide releases

ghostinc.com

3. Follow this video carefully pausing it and repeating it as needed in order to take out your trigger assembly, Cruciform, Striker Spring, Trigger bar and Trigger Shoe.

4. When you get the trigger assembly out. Very important so pay attention. 1st. Do a .25 Cent Trigger job, lightly polishing the internal parts of the cruciform and trigger bar, safety plunger, and any other metal parts that the video shows you.

5. 2nd. After the .25 Cent job, make sure to clean the polish off all parts with a CLP gun Cleaner, just as you would after shooting it.

6. Install the Apex Tactical Trigger Shoe onto the trigger bar.

7. Remove the PSA’s Dagger trigger connector and install the Ghost 3.5 Edge Trigger Connector.

8. Put everything back together following the video.




Great post. I challenge anyone in this thread to find and post here, one single link to where someone was prosecuted and convicted of a righteous self defense shooting,

1. In a pro gun state.

2. In a pro gun city

3. Who’s pistol had a perfectly reasonable upgrade or modification that improved the pistol for better more accurate shooting.

4. If the upgrade wasn’t reasonable like some type of writing or statement on the side of the gun like “God assigned me to do away with all evil doers” type of statement? Then I get it.

5. But if not? Post the link. I dare ya….

6. In my state, the jury will be instructed to look at the simple facts of the case. Was it self defense? If it was? An upgrade isn’t going to send you to prison. If it wasn’t self defense, a stock pistol isn’t going to keep you out of prison.

Family members are going to try to sue you for liable regardless, but the same type of common sense jurors, that were in the criminal court will also be in the civil court.

That is all.

And several states (including the ones you and I live in) provide civil immunity under certain self- defense circumstances. See the bolded part. It isn't bulletproof (ugh! Bad pun.)

I’ve never been there. I hear it’s really beautiful…. In places.

It is pretty, Rob! Well once you are north of, say, Cambria. First trip out there we camped out at an old radar station in Cambria and it was stunning! Minus the sea lions that WOULDN'T SHUT THE HELL UP!!! I was rooting for Jaws! Went to Carmel by the Sea (meh) and SWMBO wouldn't let me drive the PCH back (I wouldn't drive off a cliff... on purpose anyways!) so we took a random county road (G16 maybe?) inland to the 5 and it was stunning. Definately one of those rolling hills / more cows than people per square mile kinda places. I was in heaven! Yvette liked it too but "There's nothing to do!". "That's the point, love." Sometimes I wonder why I keep her. Wait... I know why I keep her!

Oh! And before I keep rambling... Johnny Glock makes an amazing trigger! Both duty and competition.

 

[OkieStubble]

And several states (including the ones you and I live in) provide civil immunity under certain self- defense circumstances. See the bolded part. It isn't bulletproof (ugh! Bad pun.)

It is pretty, Rob! Well once you are north of, say, Cambria. First trip out there we camped out at an old radar station in Cambria and it was stunning! Minus the sea lions that WOULDN'T SHUT THE HELL UP!!! I was rooting for Jaws! Went to Carmel by the Sea (meh) and SWMBO wouldn't let me drive the PCH back (I wouldn't drive off a cliff... on purpose anyways!) so we took a random county road (G16 maybe?) inland to the 5 and it was stunning. Definately one of those rolling hills / more cows than people per square mile kinda places. I was in heaven! Yvette liked it too but "There's nothing to do!". "That's the point, love." Sometimes I wonder why I keep her. Wait... I know why I keep her!

Oh! And before I keep rambling... Johnny Glock makes an amazing trigger! Both duty and competition.

Johnny Glock is famous and very knowledgeable.

I wonder if huntin’ sea lion is like huntin’ hog, just with flippers?

 

[nikonNUT]

I wonder if huntin’ sea lion is like huntin’ hog, just with flippers?

Perhaps but I can only imagine the "PR disaster" (That's code for a certain type of storm) it would cause to find out!

 

[OkieStubble]

Perhaps but I can only imagine the "PR disaster" (That's code for a certain type of storm) it would cause to find out!

PETA would have our heads on sticks!

 

[ODJ]

I tried to agree with you.


Well, we can easily google how popular and successful aftermarket Glock parts and accessories are with a huge population of The Glock owner’s community to verify my points?

Being capable of googling how many times you have personally been in the right place at the right time at all the many different gun training classes you have been to, in order to witness multiple Glock failures that you just happen to of had first hand personal knowledge of the fact, that all these other guys there, that were using aftermarket parts? In order to verify your points?

Not so much?

Have you met @dojpros ?

Just wondering, cuz he’s a DOJ and you are a ODJ? Kinda similar? And you both have a lot of gun training classes under your belts?

I’d bet y’all would get along great!

ODJ=OutDoor Junkie.

Let's jsut agree to disagree. Just because something is popular among the Reddit crowd (ie: aftermarket triggers and all the other mods they do to their Glocks) doesn't mean it's something that professionals rely on who use the stuff everyday. Big difference between those that love to mod and post pics on Reddit of they're tricked out Glocks and do this as a hobby and those that use their firearms for self defense or for their job. I'd argue that plenty of those on Reddit with the tricked out Glocks that are fanboys of all the aftermarket stuff probably couldn't shoot their way out of a paper bag in many cases. I just found early on that I get way more mileage out of training and taking classes than I do dumping money into a firearm thinking I can make it better. All you're really left with is a nice looking forearm that you still don't know how to run properly and efficiently and less money in your wallet.

 

[Rob72]

I wouldn't use that as my proof of anything if it has anything to do with a firearm I'm trusting my life to.

Easy, bro. Whatever personal conflict may or may not be going on between you & OS, tossing crude stuff out is both uncouth and intellectually dishonest.

Few of us here know each other face to face, or the exact circles we run in. Your experiences are yours. OS has a different take, and as ex -LEO, his experiences are more concrete than XXX hours of classes, regardless of the trainer.

Why? Because real-world testing uses flesh to test the theory. Individuals _should_ modify tactics and techniques (and hardware) to complement the nature of their practice.

Sure, gear ho's abound, but many of us have the years and the rounds to have valid technical choices which may be completely contrary to another's very real and specific functional need.

The last gun guru I knew who felt that he was "anointed" shot one of his subordinate instructors.