For those in the armed forces (or anyone else, for that matter)...

[icedoverfire]

I would like to know your opinion on this article:

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2011189,00.html?xid=rss-mostpopularemail

Personally I think it is worth a complaint but not as big of a hubbub as is being made about it. I would say more, but I'm not sure if any conduct rules have indeed been broken. (No military background whatsoever)

- ice

 

[jsrdrnr]

Not that big of a deal really. Perhaps worth a complaint, but come on, I mean, it is just a bunch of men making fun of each other. That is just what the call signs do.

 

[stobes21]

Unfortunately the military suffers from issues regarding sexual harassment at a rate much higher than the private sector. I know that the Pentagon has been trying to address ongoing issues of sexual harassment in all the branches of the military for some time now, but things like this seem to indicate there is more to be done. IMHO that type of nickname crosses the line from gentle ribbing between colleagues to a malicious attack. I'm not in the military nor am I a vet, but the men and women serving in our military deserve respect both from the general public and from their colleagues. Hopefully the Navy is able to appropriately address the issue.

 

[citizensoldierny]

A complaint, nope. An article never It's the military from day one your trained not to be sensitive, to suck it up and drive on etc.. All units give people nicknames, I actually get a kick out of telling people not in the military mine, Frenchy or Francois or the like is used by some because my last name is French and less than pheonetic. Or my favorite, Shrek, still recall fondly sitting around the hangar and giving each other nicknames. It could definitely be harsh, but it made for some good times. Those same people who where giving him a nickname that hurt his little feelings probably wouldn't give a second's thought to getting his back in a bar fight or even dying to protect him if need be. Because the guys busting my balls certainly wouldn't haven't have hesitated to do the same for me. He should be embarrassed and ashamed

 

[luvmysuper]

It's ok, he's been reassigned as support staff for a Seal Team Unit.
They are much more sensitive than those Aviators.

For clarity sake;

The guy is an LDO - meaning he spent 16 years in the Navy as an Enlisted man (E-6 / E-7), and applied to the Limited Duty Officer Program for a Commission as an Ensign (O-1).
He is not, and cannot be an Aviator, meaning he cannot be a Pilot in that Squadron.
As Administrative Staff FOR the Squadron, he doesn't need or get a real Call Sign, only Pilots get real Call Signs.
In the rare cases where non-pilots get "honorary" Call Signs, it is as a show of outreach and friendship.
Either he wasn't getting an "honorary" call sign, and they were just teasing him, or he was getting an "honorary" call sign and they were teasing him before they gave him his actual one.

 

[SalvadorMontenegro]

I have never understood the world of the pseudo ultra masculine where insults are considered terms of endearment. To me, insulting someone is a sign of insecurity, whether it's in jest or earnestness. I would never make it in this guy's world and if he has a similar sentiment as I do, he probably doesn't belong in it either.

 

[patrisVII]

I have never understood the world of the ultra masculine where insults are considered terms of endearment. To me, insulting someone is a sign of insecurity, whether it's in jest or earnestness. I would never make it in this guy's world and if he has a similar sentiment as I do, he probably doesn't belong in it either.

I agree - what's the point of these handles, especially if the recipient objects to it? Come on - are these grown men or 10 year old kids?

Full disclosure: I was a submariner in the USN for 9 years. When I qualified SS, a few crewmen 'pinned' my dolphins, but most behaved like adults and shook my hand or just congratulated me. I did not respect, admire or male-bond with any of those guys who punched my chest......I just thought they were jerks.

 

[instpasr]

After reading the article I am having trouble seeing where the problem is here. I've had a couple over the years most recently I was eagle 4 or bald eagle, yeah I'm bald. Most of the time they call me inspector gadget because I love having the newest toys. At the risk of sounding insensitive, he needs to man up there are more important things to worry about.

 

[MaxJ]

Seems like the real lesson here is not to be a d--- to other people in your unit, lest you pay a hilarious karmic price.

 

[citizensoldierny]

Retired Marine here. Infantry officer, then fighter pilot, then adversary pilot. My call sign was "Rodent". Some old friends still call me that, and I smile when I hear it.

Every squadron or outfit has weak sister or two. Everyone knows who they are. No one wants them around when the s#&% hits the fan. That's what this guy is. He picked the wrong career. He is not a warrior. I hope that he finds his niche as an accountant or whatever, and that he doesn't reproduce. He's not the sort we need on our team. He's the sort we need on our enemy's teams.

^
Be careful, if you keep repressing like that your going to get an ulcer

 

[Topgumby]

I am bemused by the society that would laud, decorate and promote the young man who can blast, burn, shoot, stab, club, and in general kill the enemy on the battlefield, but would almost assuredly call him to the carpet if he shouted out a politically incorrect insult while engaged in such praiseworthy actions.

Either there is something different, coarse and primitive about the warrior culture that calls for the beating of swords on shields and other ritualistic, stupid behaviors that let folks who come from civilized societies make war, or it should be just like any other job with the same rules and norms, because killing your fellow human on a grand scale ought to be just like going to the office, with the same attitudes and expectations of decorum.

I know what answer scares me more.

 

[Kevan]

While there's a point to be made that this guy is being too sensitive for his chosen profession, whether they were joking or not, the people who wrote those names on the whiteboard for him were being dicks.

Go defend the country guys; high school's over. No need to act like locker room jerks.

 

[Uncle Erik]

As an accountant (among other things), I don't appreciate that comment.

I haven't been in the military, but spent my undergrad in a fraternity. Teasing, crap and nicknames are just par for the course. The professional fraternity was about the same and the college marching band was worse than both of them put together. I ended up with nicknames, was throughly hazed and much else. I also spent a couple of years visiting jails and prisons every day after I got out of law school. There isn't much that rattles my cage these days.

My guess as to what happened here is that the guy reacted badly to being called that once. If someone calls you something you don't like, rule number one is to laugh it off and call yourself that jokingly a few times. If you pitch a fit, you're guaranteed to be saddled with it. This guy made a scene and they used it to needle him. That's how these things work.

Call it immature, juvenile, macho posturing, or whatever you want, but put a bunch of guys together and you have to show that you're not touchy about the little stuff. That's just how guys are.

 

[Kevan]

I see your POV, but I disagree. I've always found "boys' club" behavior distasteful. As others have said, maybe this guy is too sensitive for his chosen profession and was weeded out. Fine. But on the other hand (and I haven't been in the military), sholuldn't you have an essential respect for your comrade-in-arms?

That said, I guess it obviously doesn't affect their job performance since they are all aviators, which is the most important thing.

 

[Ru4scuba?]

I am bemused by the society that would laud, decorate and promote the young man who can blast, burn, shoot, stab, club, and in general kill the enemy on the battlefield, but would almost assuredly call him to the carpet if he shouted out a politically incorrect insult while engaged in such praiseworthy actions.

Either there is something different, coarse and primitive about the warrior culture that calls for the beating of swords on shields and other ritualistic, stupid behaviors that let folks who come from civilized societies make war, or it should be just like any other job with the same rules and norms, because killing your fellow human on a grand scale ought to be just like going to the office, with the same attitudes and expectations of decorum.

I know what answer scares me more.

Very eloquent as usual TG...just think of the B2 pilots who left their base, flew to A-stan...dropped bombs on target and were home for dinner.

Isn't that "killing your fellow human on a grand scale and similar to going to the office?"

Due to technology, war has become, and is continuing to become an endevour fought by machines...very impersonal on how we deal death to the enemy...no doubt (at least from our USAF brethren...Army still does it the old fashioned way for the most part).

 

[Topgumby]

As an accountant (among other things), I don't appreciate that comment...

If you're referring to my post, please note no offense was meant. It would be a much better world if everybody could behave towards each other at all times like they should in a more or less polite office environment.

You're right, the teasing and posturing are present wherever a bunch of males gather. It's an interesting debate as to whether it's better to harness it and exploit it (much military tradition does this, I think) or try to suppress it (military discipline comes into play here).

 

[Kevan]

If you're referring to my post, please note no offense was meant. It would be a much better world if everybody could behave towards each other at all times like they should in a more or less polite office environment.

You're right, the teasing and posturing are present wherever a bunch of males gather. It's an interesting debate as to whether it's better to harness it and exploit it (much military tradition does this, I think) or try to suppress it (military discipline comes into play here).

I'm pretty sure he was referring to my comment. As to your question, I think it's best to harness it, but I'd certainly expect better behavior from people of higher ranks and who fly jets loaded with explosive ordinance, especially towards their peers. Nicknames like the ones they wrote for that guy goes beyond "ribbing" IMO.

But like I said, if it doesn't affect their job performance, that's all that matters at the end of the day. This incident certainly doesn't warrant an investigation, at any rate.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I see your POV, but I disagree. I've always found "boys' club" behavior distasteful. As others have said, maybe this guy is too sensitive for his chosen profession and was weeded out. Fine. But on the other hand (and I haven't been in the military), sholuldn't you have an essential respect for your comrade-in-arms?

That said, I guess it obviously doesn't affect their job performance since they are all aviators, which is the most important thing.

You do have respect for others, but it doesn't extend to the teasing and locker room jokes. If the guy was in actual danger or something threatened his life, he'd probably have everyone at his back.

But the verbal jabs don't count. You can't be sensitive about name-calling and jokes. That's a big part of developing the pecking order. If you can shrug off the crap and have a sense of humor, people trust you not to fold over minor stuff. If you hyperventilate over a bad word or a nickname, then how are you going to handle combat or something stressful?

I'm not a big guy (5'8", 150), but don't let the little stuff get to me. A good reason why I've survived being locked in cells with some unfriendly folk. You have to learn how to be "one of the guys." That might not sound PC, but it's how things work.

 

[Kevan]

I see what you're saying. And I do think this guy is being too sensitive, but I dunno, I just expect more maturity from officers in the navy. Perhaps I just don't know any better.

I was made fun of a few times in college for being a virgin and being a non-drinker, but I didn't care. I either ignored it or told them to "F--- off." Which is what this guy should've done.

 

[Kevan]

I get that. But also, if my and my brother's recent-run in with a marine in a 7-11 parking lot was any indication, some have trouble "switching off." The guy went completely crazy when (he thought) my brother parked too close to his car, thus increasing the likelihood that our car door would hit his, apparently. "I dare you to hit my car. Just try it. I'm a master sergeant in the Marines...." He said this over and over. As if we gave a crap. It was a parking lot, not the battlefield or basic training.

But obviously, I'm glad they bring that attitude to Afghanistan.