This is my first post though I have been a reader on Badger and Blade for a few weeks. Let me admit that I have been getting good shaves from my Fusion since using a brush and better products (Ive become a Trumpers junkie). A friend gave me Hams Leisureguy's Guide to Gourmet Shaving and I devoured it in two sittings. I have become so frustrated paying for the Fusion cartridges that I wanted to try to switch to the DE world. I got my Murkur HD on Monday and have shaved 5 times with it since. I need a little encouragement that this experiment will eventually work out. Here are the results: Takes 4 passes to get a decent (not good) shave; Ive been concentrating on short, light, properly angled strokes; using the Murkur blades; have re-read Ham; watched Mantics YouTube clinics
. What am I not getting? How long will it take before my face or technique figure this thing out? I really dont want to go back to the world of $3.50+ cartridges. Any advice? Thanks.
Discouraged newbie on the learning curve...
- Thread starter Threeboysdad
- Start date
Most on this forum agree that Merkur blades are not the best.... PM me I will send you some Crystals... and a sampler pack of blades from Bullgoose or WCS will also help you. Work on your angle and no pressure.
well, the thing is that beard thickness changes from person to person, and some people just need sharper blades,
the merkurs are pretty similar to the white/yellow pack german made wilkinsons (i would´nt be surprised if it was the same blade), now while mantic says that blade is the benchmark, hes actualy lying a bit (atleast in my opinion) so people new to wet shaving dont start with a dangerus blade,
for me those blades provide a mild shave, i actually hurt myself a couple of times going overboard with those blades trying to force a better shave out of them,
My advice ? try a pack of Derbys or Personna reds, and if thats still mild, maybe you´re the kind of guy who needs a slant and a feather to get the job done,
the merkurs are pretty similar to the white/yellow pack german made wilkinsons (i would´nt be surprised if it was the same blade), now while mantic says that blade is the benchmark, hes actualy lying a bit (atleast in my opinion) so people new to wet shaving dont start with a dangerus blade,
for me those blades provide a mild shave, i actually hurt myself a couple of times going overboard with those blades trying to force a better shave out of them,
My advice ? try a pack of Derbys or Personna reds, and if thats still mild, maybe you´re the kind of guy who needs a slant and a feather to get the job done,
Ok...I'm also a fellow frustrated newbie. First off...as I'm sure you have in your head...patience is a virtue. You'll eventually get it...people on here are months in and say they haven't figured it out......I would suggest looking at the "experiment" as not only results driven but an experience to be enjoyed...consider it a quest to the perfect shave.
As for the shaves...I would move away from the Merkur blades....get a westcoastshaving sampler pack.....or as I did, go to amazon and see if there is a larger cheaper pack there, I got a 10 dollar pack with 100 total blades and 18 different ones.
Next, I'm not sure if you are simply not getting a close shave, or if you have irritation/nicks......If you are just not getting a close shave...then give it time, work on your angle, work in XTG and ATG passes and be patient...it should work out. If you are getting irritation/nicks/burn..I suggest cutting down the passes and only go WTG at first, then WTG and XTG...and finally when things are comfortable add ATG.
I'm sure someone else here will have better advice. I also feel like I apply no pressure/have proper angle/and short strokes....but I doubt I am actually doing that....might be the same for you.
As for the shaves...I would move away from the Merkur blades....get a westcoastshaving sampler pack.....or as I did, go to amazon and see if there is a larger cheaper pack there, I got a 10 dollar pack with 100 total blades and 18 different ones.
Next, I'm not sure if you are simply not getting a close shave, or if you have irritation/nicks......If you are just not getting a close shave...then give it time, work on your angle, work in XTG and ATG passes and be patient...it should work out. If you are getting irritation/nicks/burn..I suggest cutting down the passes and only go WTG at first, then WTG and XTG...and finally when things are comfortable add ATG.
I'm sure someone else here will have better advice. I also feel like I apply no pressure/have proper angle/and short strokes....but I doubt I am actually doing that....might be the same for you.
I am afraid to say that it will be considerably longer than 5 shaves or so.
The carts are made for the lazy man, quick and easy at the expense of facial skin.
A DE takes time, particularly if you are used to the cart. You not only have to learn all the RIGHT things about using the DE, but UNlearn all of the WRONG things that got ingrained from using the cart.
I suggest you get a sample pack of blades from WestCoastShaving, some people like Merkurs but most I read of on here don't feel that they are that good a blade.
Remember this mantra, and repeat it to yourself as you shave (in your mind of course - don't say it while you're shaving unless you want to lose your lips)
Go Slow
Proper Angle
No Pressure
What does the mantra mean?
Go Slow - If you think that you are going too slow, then go slower. This is not a race, and you must accept that at the beginning, this is going to take more time than you are used to. Experience, success and learning the technique will dictate your speed. As your shaves get better, your speed will also naturally increase
Proper Angle - Start with the razor head against your face, handle parallel to the floor, then slowly rotate the handle slowly down. When you just start cutting the hair, that's a good position. If you go too far down, you will still cut hair, but the edge of the blade will be scraping your face, and you WILL get razor burn, especially if your going over an area several times to get all the hair.
No Pressure - Let the weight of the razor do the work, and just use your hand to keep the razor in position. This is not so hard on a flat area going from top to bottom, like your cheeks, but it's a little tougher when you're trying to get your neck. Just remember how much weight is on your face, and try to imitate that when you go from bottom to top, or side to side such as on your neck.
Don't give up, get good!
Also - 4 passes is a LOT. I'd suggest you settle for a "visibly acceptable" shave for now, till things start clicking for you. BBS will come of its own, and you might have to settle for feeling a tiny bit of stubble with your hands, even if you can't see it with the eye.
Good Luck and keep us posted on your progress!!
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All the standard advice is great. I also think that as you get more experience with the DE you will learn, intuitively, what terms like 'no pressure' actually mean, and how fast or slow you really need to moving the razor (for me 'slow' strokes result in drag) - its really kind of an intangible process of learning thats difficult to articulate, but once you get there it will be worth it.
Good luck.
Good luck.
Welcome aboard! Keep hanging in there, it takes a while but the technique will come to you. It took me about a month to get things sorted out. Definitely try a different blade; while I had OK results with the Merkurs, the quality of individual blades was rather hit or miss.
Welcome to B&B
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Hang in there...
Daily shaving means you're getting daily practice at wet-shaving. One day soon, you'll realize that it has 'come together' and you get a great shave. Then another one. . .
Stick it out with the DE --you can't learn to use the DE by regressing to the cartridge type razors.
Wet shaving is easily learned and well worth the modest effort. You'll experience fine shaves in short order, and have a lifetime of great shaves.
-- John Gehman
Daily shaving means you're getting daily practice at wet-shaving. One day soon, you'll realize that it has 'come together' and you get a great shave. Then another one. . .
Stick it out with the DE --you can't learn to use the DE by regressing to the cartridge type razors.
Wet shaving is easily learned and well worth the modest effort. You'll experience fine shaves in short order, and have a lifetime of great shaves.
-- John Gehman
- Thread starter
- #10
Thanks to all for the kind advice. I'm going to stick this out and try some new blades and go "slower" and "lighter"... even more so than I have been.
It took me about a month to get it down where I wasn't chewing my face up, and about 6-7 months to really get it down, where I can do a fast 2-pass DFS at 6:15 am when I'm half-awake.
One thing that really helped was learning how to make lather right- even now if I f**k it up, I can give myself a pretty horrid shave.
You might try concentrating on giving yourself a good one-pass or 1.5 pass shave (2 pass on cheeks) and once you've mastered that, go on to full 2-pass shaves, and so-on until you have the technique down.
The other thing to realize is that there may well be some places that you just won't get BBS. The bottom of my neck has whiskers that grow out at a VERY shallow angle, and they tend to get irritated if I do anything remotely against the grain, so I just do my best and accept that it won't be BBS.
One thing that really helped was learning how to make lather right- even now if I f**k it up, I can give myself a pretty horrid shave.
You might try concentrating on giving yourself a good one-pass or 1.5 pass shave (2 pass on cheeks) and once you've mastered that, go on to full 2-pass shaves, and so-on until you have the technique down.
The other thing to realize is that there may well be some places that you just won't get BBS. The bottom of my neck has whiskers that grow out at a VERY shallow angle, and they tend to get irritated if I do anything remotely against the grain, so I just do my best and accept that it won't be BBS.
I have been in the same boat. I bought a Merkur long handle and thought "What am I not getting about this whole thing?" I had to make several passes just to get the same closeness that I got from a Fusion. Here is what I have to say about your situation: learn what works for you. There is a certain amount of trial and error that comes with starting off. I bought the razor sampler pack and found that the blades are all different. My personal preference are the Feathers. Now, along with that, I changed to the Merkur Futur. It helped me to be able to adjust the blade angle. Now, I use that razor only. Figure out which technique for lathering works best for you. I am still trying to determine my best way. I like to mix it up and try different ways (face lathering, bowl lather, hand lathering, etc.). I also found that a rub with an alum bar at the end is best for my skin. A little aftershave and I am good to go!
Also, I will occasionally shave with a straight razor. This will tear my face up if I pass too many times. In my opinion, and from what I have heard, it takes about a month to adjust to a new way of shaving. I am just not sure if I could take a month of razor burn from a straight razor. Give it some more time and practice and let your skin adjust to this new way of shaving as you learn to improve your technique.
Also, I will occasionally shave with a straight razor. This will tear my face up if I pass too many times. In my opinion, and from what I have heard, it takes about a month to adjust to a new way of shaving. I am just not sure if I could take a month of razor burn from a straight razor. Give it some more time and practice and let your skin adjust to this new way of shaving as you learn to improve your technique.
It may take a few weeks or a month before they equal your cartridge shaves so keep at it. If you can shave at night when you're not pressed for time, try that. Limit your passes and go for the ok shave. Better shaves will come as your technique improves. I really wouldn't worry about using the Merkur blades. They are overpriced, but not that bad. I still use them in my HD, but not for more than 2-3 shaves. You're almost there, just stick it out a little longer. That day when everything clicks is worth it.
Funny you said that. I used a Merkur for the first time today and it was absolute hell!
I was having similar experiences when I started out last April, including razor & blade. There were times that I doubted whether this was a good idea or not. Stick with it. I'm glad I did. It took me a month or two to get used to it, and probably another month or two more before I was getting consistently good shaves without cuts/irritation. Now I'm getting much better results than I ever did with a Mach 3.
Here are some things I've found. Maybe some of this will help you:
1) Make sure you know what direction your beard is growing. When I started out, I didn't pay enough attention to this. Once I started, I discovered that I've got some weird patterns that I'd never even realized.
2) Once I got a sampler pack from West Coast Shaving and started trying other blades, I started getting better results. Maybe that'll work for you too. Finding a good blade takes a while, but is worth it. I found that the Crystals work best for me, but YMMV. The red Personnas and the Derbys were decent too, so I can see why so many people here like them. Couldn't hurt to try some of those out at least.
3) ATG still tears me up, especially on my neck. I've been using one WTG pass followed by two XTG passes (in opposite directions) and get pretty good results.
3BD,
What kind of prep are you using? Are you shaving straight out of the shower?
It does take time to learn this art, and unlearn all the bad habits of cartridge shaving, especially the applying of pressure which is strictly forbidden in the DE, SE and SR worlds.
It will be one of the great mysteries of the industrial age how a company that makes such great razors, can produce such a mediocre, overpriced blade.
As TOB1303 mentions, get thee a sampler pack. If you live or work in NYC, a trip to Pasteur's would be beneficial since they sell a great variety of blades, including the vaunted Super Iridiums.
What kind of prep are you using? Are you shaving straight out of the shower?
It does take time to learn this art, and unlearn all the bad habits of cartridge shaving, especially the applying of pressure which is strictly forbidden in the DE, SE and SR worlds.
It will be one of the great mysteries of the industrial age how a company that makes such great razors, can produce such a mediocre, overpriced blade.
As TOB1303 mentions, get thee a sampler pack. If you live or work in NYC, a trip to Pasteur's would be beneficial since they sell a great variety of blades, including the vaunted Super Iridiums.
That's pretty funny. Same DE Razor and blades as me when I started... a YEAR ago. Let me tell you, it is NOT going to get better with those Merkur blades. I actually had to apply pressure with those blades just to get it to cut, then the blade was good for 1-2 shaves. And I only shaved once a week it was so painful.
BUT, I didn't know about the sampler pack from West Coast Shaving! I got it in last week, went straight for the Red Personnas and BAM! I shaved light, no pressure and I got a frapping awesome shave! It's the blades man!
PS - On a side note, the Merkur blades are VERY FORGIVING! Use them while you learn if you feel you need to work on your technique.
BUT, I didn't know about the sampler pack from West Coast Shaving! I got it in last week, went straight for the Red Personnas and BAM! I shaved light, no pressure and I got a frapping awesome shave! It's the blades man!
PS - On a side note, the Merkur blades are VERY FORGIVING! Use them while you learn if you feel you need to work on your technique.
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+1 on all of the above advice. This is a slow learning process. If you shaved with a cartridge it really does take time to unlearn all the habits you acquired. Blades make a huge difference so i would lose the Merkurs and get a sample pack as soon as I could. Good luck and dont give up it took me months to get better with a DE and i mean months.....
I'm only a few months ahead of you on the learning curve, but here are a couple of things that helped me:
a. PATIENCE! It's difficult at first. I wished I could have shaved five times a day to try new combos of equipment. Once I realized that it was better to have a mediocre 1 or 2 pass shave without irritation than a BBS shave with weepers and razor burn, I started to relax about it. And my shave got closer and closer.
b. SOAPS/CREAMS/LATHER. I found there is a big difference between various brands. Some work exceptionally well for me while others do almost nothing. Obviously it's a YMMV thing, but if you peruse the soap and cream reviews you will find some that are highly rated by most people (Tabac, for example).
c. BLADES. Obviously, they make a big difference. Merkurs are generally given poor reviews. I think Derbys are a pretty good bet for a new shaver - reasonably sharp and very smooth.
d. RAZOR. The HD seems to be the razor that everyone starts with. Then, they try an Edwin Jagger 89L and say they wished they had begun with that. I started with an HD and have since tried a slant, 38c, Futur, and EJ 89L. I still find the HD to be the harshest shaver of the group and the EJ to be the smoothest. Again, it's YMMV, but the EJ has so dramatically improved my shaves that I'm sure I'll never touch my HD again. As always, YMMV.
All in all, the wide variety of products makes wet shaving a fascinating hobby and rewarding journey. It also makes things very frustrating for the newcomer.
Hang in there, and I wish you a better shave today than yesterday.
Scott
a. PATIENCE! It's difficult at first. I wished I could have shaved five times a day to try new combos of equipment. Once I realized that it was better to have a mediocre 1 or 2 pass shave without irritation than a BBS shave with weepers and razor burn, I started to relax about it. And my shave got closer and closer.
b. SOAPS/CREAMS/LATHER. I found there is a big difference between various brands. Some work exceptionally well for me while others do almost nothing. Obviously it's a YMMV thing, but if you peruse the soap and cream reviews you will find some that are highly rated by most people (Tabac, for example).
c. BLADES. Obviously, they make a big difference. Merkurs are generally given poor reviews. I think Derbys are a pretty good bet for a new shaver - reasonably sharp and very smooth.
d. RAZOR. The HD seems to be the razor that everyone starts with. Then, they try an Edwin Jagger 89L and say they wished they had begun with that. I started with an HD and have since tried a slant, 38c, Futur, and EJ 89L. I still find the HD to be the harshest shaver of the group and the EJ to be the smoothest. Again, it's YMMV, but the EJ has so dramatically improved my shaves that I'm sure I'll never touch my HD again. As always, YMMV.
All in all, the wide variety of products makes wet shaving a fascinating hobby and rewarding journey. It also makes things very frustrating for the newcomer.
Hang in there, and I wish you a better shave today than yesterday.
Scott
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When I first started shaving I cut myself being frustrated that my shaves were not ultra close. Like, I'd shave, rub my face, feel stubble, and keep going over and over and over, get irritation and nicks.
I soon discovered that no matter what, I don't have the BBS face look. Just tell yourself to concentrate on the fundamentals. And if you get discouraged, while you're trying to get closer and closer to that BBS shave, remember that women dig the stubble look so it's win if you get the good shave and win if you don't!
I soon discovered that no matter what, I don't have the BBS face look. Just tell yourself to concentrate on the fundamentals. And if you get discouraged, while you're trying to get closer and closer to that BBS shave, remember that women dig the stubble look so it's win if you get the good shave and win if you don't!
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