News for ya folks. If you've posted into this thread, you are on a watch list.
Dangerous Man
- Thread starter 1OldGI
- Start date
I'm reminded of a Bloom County strip that addressed that very subject, with Opus grousing about the possibilities. It ended with a pic of Opus in the newspaper taken from a satellite entitled, "Ugly Man Scratches Pits."
Well all of us here are on the fringe of society as it were. We refuse to conform to bad shaves with overpriced kit.
Very well played my friend. A gentleman's forum is no place for politics or religion. They are just too volatile.
- Thread starter
- #46
Sure, traditional values, the way I see it, boil down to two basic ideas. Essentially traditional values center around self-determination and what I like to call chivalry or what your grandma would have called just plain old good manners.
First self-determination, remember that feeling you had after graduating high school or college that it was your turn to go out and see what you could do? I still believe that people live the kind of lives that they build (for better or for worse). It boils down to good decisions=good consequences, bad decisions=bad consequences. The decisions people make and the consequences associated with those decisions should be the individual's. Increasingly this is not the case and people who have made good decisions and make a decent living are being punished and bad decisions are being rewarded. Corporate bail outs, saving the auto industry, and the mentality that the wealthy OWE those who have been less diligent or less effective in their decision making is disgusting and horribly upside down for people like me. Truth is, if you're willing to give a person who makes $7.50 and hour a loan for a $500,000 house and he (big surprise) can't make the payments that's on you, and you should have to deal with the consequences. If you run your business poorly and it goes belly up, that's your problem, not the government's. If you made the decision to drop out of school, do drugs all the time, and sit on the porch and drink all day, the fact that you have nothing and can't support yourself is called a consequence, the government shouldn't cover for you or make you being a bum one bit easier. Especially not by extorting money from those of us who have made it a point to do this stuff right.
The chivalry part, well these are the lessons of the older people, good manners, ideas that are valuable, things like: A man supports his kids, don't ever raise your hand to a woman, patriotism, respect for authority and the rule of law to include constitutional rights, standing up for what you believe in and defending the helpless. These types of ideas are waving bye bye to this country at an absolutely break neck pace and it's a shame.
As long as you're not wearing a belt, I guess it's OK!
This reminded me of, you guessed it, someone who famously wears both, because you can never be too careful:
Its great that so many diverse groups of social, political and religious backgrounds can unite under the banner of shaving. How's that for world peace?
- Thread starter
- #48
Oddly enough, every time I wear suspenders, my wife asks me, where's your belt? Different strokes for different folks but I always thought that wearing both looked kinda (OK seriously) redneck. I find them much more comfortable than a belt.
Different strokes for different folks but I always thought that wearing both looked kinda (OK seriously) redneck. I find them much more comfortable than a belt.
Pretty sure we're both equally schtuped once we get to the gulag.
Does anyone have a link to that DHS document? (Has anyone read it?)
I enjoy B&B because of the very absence of political and religious rancor; don't we have enough of that noise elsewhere in the world?
Debate is one thing I strongly support. However, this thread causes me concern that B&B might lower itself to the sort of rantings more typically found on Craigslist.
Debate is one thing I strongly support. However, this thread causes me concern that B&B might lower itself to the sort of rantings more typically found on Craigslist.
Thank you for taking the time to clarify. While I may disagree with the crux of your position (that self-determination and good manners are disappearing at a breakneck pace), I'm glad I asked so I could understand it more clearly.
Have a great weekend!
Dave
Hey, isn't it time we started discussing on this thread.... Pancakes?!?!
I think that this kind of discussion would be better shifted over to the barber shop and with the political debate tamped down. But, since the mods have left it here and left it open, I'd like to add something. Not political, just a basic observation about life.
1OldGI--when you talk about the way you think somebody should live their life, I couldn't agree with you more. Self reliance--that's one of the foundational values of the US. That's why we all have to read Emerson in school (don't we?)--to remind us about who we ought to be.
However, I disagree with you completely on two points. On the first, you seem to think that the idea of self-determination or self-reliance is disappearing. The truth is that, probably through all of history, the people who want to take care of themselves have always gone head to head with the people who wanted to make a living from the efforts of others. If that wasn't the case, my ancestors would have been happy farmers and fishermen in Ireland rather than factory workers in the US.
Even a casual look at US history will show that self determination is always under threat. Where I grew up, you could read historical markers about the Whiskey Rebellion. It was George Washington, the father of our country, who sent the troops to put down protests over excessive taxation. Veterans would also do well to recall that in 1932 Herbert Hoover also set US troops (led by MacArthur, Patton and Eisenhower) on veterans demanding just compensation for their service in WWI. Of course, it isn't always the government--ordinary people are not only exploited by taxes. Pick up an Edith Wharton or Henry James novel. Then read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle." The luxurious lives of those who lived the Gilded Age were paid for by people who valued hard work but weren't valued for their efforts.
My point is that I don't think that the real threat to self-determination is laziness. It's the sharp guy who realizes that there's always a bunch of hard working self-determiners out there who can help subsidize his comfortable life. And this problem has always been around.
I also disagree with you about the death of chivalry. Do you really believe that? When I was a young, hard charging Marine, I never thought that I was doing anything different than the people who came before me. In fact, I had to live up to their example. But when I trained new Marines, I never thought that they would be less than me--in fact, I expected that they would exceed my efforts. Now, when I see young men and women in uniform saying goodbye to their families at the airport, I know that chivalry is alive. When I took my mom to the emergency room, the kindness and courtesy of the young doctors and interns were nothing if not chivalrous. When I see young people at a Springsteen concert collecting food and money to help out struggling farmers and workers who have been just laid off, isn't that chivalry? When my students tell me that they're going to work as volunteers in impoverished African countries or teach in poor US neighborhoods, isn't that chivalry too? I'm always meeting kids who are doing so much that they inspire me to do more.
I don't know you, 1OldGI, but I'm pretty sure that you're a good guy like the good guys I've spent my life working with. If I could sit down with you for a beer or a cup of Joe, I'd tell you that the things that you're angry about have always been out there. I'd also tell you that all the things that you are mourning are still out there too. Just because we're old war horses now doesn't mean that the young one's can't run.
1OldGI--when you talk about the way you think somebody should live their life, I couldn't agree with you more. Self reliance--that's one of the foundational values of the US. That's why we all have to read Emerson in school (don't we?)--to remind us about who we ought to be.
However, I disagree with you completely on two points. On the first, you seem to think that the idea of self-determination or self-reliance is disappearing. The truth is that, probably through all of history, the people who want to take care of themselves have always gone head to head with the people who wanted to make a living from the efforts of others. If that wasn't the case, my ancestors would have been happy farmers and fishermen in Ireland rather than factory workers in the US.
Even a casual look at US history will show that self determination is always under threat. Where I grew up, you could read historical markers about the Whiskey Rebellion. It was George Washington, the father of our country, who sent the troops to put down protests over excessive taxation. Veterans would also do well to recall that in 1932 Herbert Hoover also set US troops (led by MacArthur, Patton and Eisenhower) on veterans demanding just compensation for their service in WWI. Of course, it isn't always the government--ordinary people are not only exploited by taxes. Pick up an Edith Wharton or Henry James novel. Then read Upton Sinclair's "The Jungle." The luxurious lives of those who lived the Gilded Age were paid for by people who valued hard work but weren't valued for their efforts.
My point is that I don't think that the real threat to self-determination is laziness. It's the sharp guy who realizes that there's always a bunch of hard working self-determiners out there who can help subsidize his comfortable life. And this problem has always been around.
I also disagree with you about the death of chivalry. Do you really believe that? When I was a young, hard charging Marine, I never thought that I was doing anything different than the people who came before me. In fact, I had to live up to their example. But when I trained new Marines, I never thought that they would be less than me--in fact, I expected that they would exceed my efforts. Now, when I see young men and women in uniform saying goodbye to their families at the airport, I know that chivalry is alive. When I took my mom to the emergency room, the kindness and courtesy of the young doctors and interns were nothing if not chivalrous. When I see young people at a Springsteen concert collecting food and money to help out struggling farmers and workers who have been just laid off, isn't that chivalry? When my students tell me that they're going to work as volunteers in impoverished African countries or teach in poor US neighborhoods, isn't that chivalry too? I'm always meeting kids who are doing so much that they inspire me to do more.
I don't know you, 1OldGI, but I'm pretty sure that you're a good guy like the good guys I've spent my life working with. If I could sit down with you for a beer or a cup of Joe, I'd tell you that the things that you're angry about have always been out there. I'd also tell you that all the things that you are mourning are still out there too. Just because we're old war horses now doesn't mean that the young one's can't run.
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Great post, Nid Hog. I agree entirely.
I've been reading a lot of 19th century Russian literature in the past 6 months or so, and it is remarkable how much the discussions among the characters sound just like 1OldGI. Complaining that the newer generation doesn't do anything right, that their values are being discarded, etc., etc.
So I'd have to agree that as long as people have been able to complain, they've been saying that everything is going to hell in a handbasket. And yet my everyday experience suggests otherwise; namely, that a handful of people are ignoring tradition and civility and that the vast majority are continuing the same way people always have. IMO, there has always been and will always be a minority of people who live like that, and they attract a lot of attention, making it seem as though the whole world is crazy. But most people are NOT crazy, and most people, deep down, are pretty good.
I've been reading a lot of 19th century Russian literature in the past 6 months or so, and it is remarkable how much the discussions among the characters sound just like 1OldGI. Complaining that the newer generation doesn't do anything right, that their values are being discarded, etc., etc.
So I'd have to agree that as long as people have been able to complain, they've been saying that everything is going to hell in a handbasket. And yet my everyday experience suggests otherwise; namely, that a handful of people are ignoring tradition and civility and that the vast majority are continuing the same way people always have. IMO, there has always been and will always be a minority of people who live like that, and they attract a lot of attention, making it seem as though the whole world is crazy. But most people are NOT crazy, and most people, deep down, are pretty good.
I'm an Independent Demopublican..I don't wear anything to hold my pants up.
Well, I agree this thread should be in the Barbershop. I don't know why it's here, but I'll join the watchlist and say this.
I consider the inital post a symptom of an old disease, a malady that has long troubled this nation but has flared up recently due to the internet, the 24 hour news cycle and talk radio.
The symptom is Americans regarding their fellow Americans as "The Other", "The Not-Americans" or the "Danger To Our Way Of Life".
Left, right, conservative, liberal, I'm sick of it.
I didn't wear the uniform and serve just so I could watch my fellow Americans attempt to tear each other apart and turn the governance of the nation into a sport with hardcore fans screaming obscenities at each other while covered in the bodypaint of their party.
I know there has always been this sort of conflict, but it 'appears' that the extreme hyperbole has gotten a lot more attention in the last few decades, and informed dialogue has been chucked out due to bad ratings.
Veteran, Gun owner, Disappointed.
I consider the inital post a symptom of an old disease, a malady that has long troubled this nation but has flared up recently due to the internet, the 24 hour news cycle and talk radio.
The symptom is Americans regarding their fellow Americans as "The Other", "The Not-Americans" or the "Danger To Our Way Of Life".
Left, right, conservative, liberal, I'm sick of it.
I didn't wear the uniform and serve just so I could watch my fellow Americans attempt to tear each other apart and turn the governance of the nation into a sport with hardcore fans screaming obscenities at each other while covered in the bodypaint of their party.
I know there has always been this sort of conflict, but it 'appears' that the extreme hyperbole has gotten a lot more attention in the last few decades, and informed dialogue has been chucked out due to bad ratings.
Veteran, Gun owner, Disappointed.
Why is this thread still here?
Let's all stick to discussing our silly hobby and fly our political flags elsewhere.
Let's all stick to discussing our silly hobby and fly our political flags elsewhere.
When I first saw the thread title I thought you were this guy.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000GFRDOA/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=5174&s=music
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B000GFRDOA/ref=dp_image_0?ie=UTF8&n=5174&s=music
Just Because You're Paranoid Doesn't Mean They're Not Out to Get You
Just make sure they don't get cinched up to tight, you might walk funny and ohhhh my eyes.Oddly enough, every time I wear suspenders, my wife asks me, where's your belt?
But are your pants at your waist or you ankles?I'm an Independent Demopublican..I don't wear anything to hold my pants up.
+1 No kiddin'
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