Corking blades

[jrowen]

Best of luck to you, sir! The winner get's a cork tree, or a cork tree seed planted in their back yard?

In general, though, I don't think the issue is whether or not these methods will "work" for some people (obviously the thread speaks for itself), but whether or not anyone has any factual information about what's happening to the blade in the process.

 

[talibeard]

Interesting thread but I agree on a more scientifical approach.

The only corking I tried was on blades that were really too terrible to use but I cannot confirm any improvement; they were still horrible afterwards.

IF there are indeed some burrs etc. left after packing the blades it does make some sense though. Sometimes at work we re-sharpen tools for metal cutting and we use brass or even steel strips to remove burrs from the cutting edge; when we don't the edge can easily break out after cutting just a few products.

 

[dt_in_av]

The effects of honing and stropping has a long history, steeped in tradition, documented in university studies and canonized into what is considered proper blade maintenance. ..........
........I don't know how corking affects the blade but I do know that I get superior shaves with a corked blade. Until the study comes out, I have to go on what I know.

I thought, perhaps, this Oct. 1931 article from Popular Science entitled, "Razor Blades and Shaving" which discusses razor blade edges might be of interest to the board - especially the part on stropping.


http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008...Qif=razor_blades_0.jpg&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=XL#qdig

 

[maurerc]

If this works, I suspect that it is by removing excess coating.

From "A Close Shave" by JF Sackman, Phys. Technol., vol 9, 1978": "Generally, razor blades are coated [thickly] with polymers...so that the thick polymer will part easily to leave a 10-20 nm layer. Figure 5 shows how high-molecular-weight polymer peels back on cutting a single hair; the peel-back region is rarely more than 40-50 pm wide, even though an average hair is about 100pm in diameter."

 

[dt_in_av]

Well, corking a blade probably falls within the YMMV part of the shaving world---...........

Ok, I give. What does YMMV mean?

 

[jrowen]

YMMV

 

[dt_in_av]

YMMV

Ah, yes, thank you.

 

[dt_in_av]

Well I gave this corking thing a try on my Merkur blade. This was a new Merkur blade I had just opened and brand new. I exclusively use Feathers, but had a few Merkurs lying around given as part of package deals when ordering. So after my first shave with these Merkur razors, I have come to truly appreciate my Feathers. Merkurs snagged and roughed up my face. Not a BBS shave at all like my Feathers. (I was using a Merkur 34G razor in case you might be wondering.)

Anyhow, for my second day of shaving I decided to cork the blade, but ONLY on one side of the Merkur DE as a means of comparison. And I made sure which side was corked when I went to use it. Well to my surprise the corked side was real smooth, just like others said when they corked their blades. It felt like there was no blade in the razor handle. There I was gliding about my face it what seemed like shaving nirvana. Again, just like there was no blade installed. After a number of passes, I looked up real close at my face........

Hmmmmm...... well now that does not look right. Yeah, it shaved real nice and smooth like there was no blade, and the results also looked like I had not used a blade as well. I would say 2/3 of the whiskers were not even touched. I had to go over the spot with the uncorked side to get them all. And yes, I felt the more aggressive side take hold and knew by feel that I was getting them - verified also by a visual inspection of my face.

I was very careful not to use too much pressure when corking the blade. Two to three passes only. Apparently, corking the blade rounds off the edge of the blade and dulls it considerably. Thus, this smoothness is perceived.

I truly believe that beard preparation is key to a good shave. I am meticulous about that and as long as I do that I get a fairly decent shave. As sharp as a Feather is, no amount of sharpness is going to magically cut through an unprepared beard like butter.

In final, corking may have its use to those who find it useful, but IMHO corking only rounds off the blade and gives a false sense of smoothness. If that is what you like, fine, but understand its trade off.

Work on beard preparation. That determines the shave.

 

[jrowen]

I thought, perhaps, this Oct. 1931 article from Popular Science entitled, "Razor Blades and Shaving" which discusses razor blade edges might be of interest to the board - especially the part on stropping.


http://blog.modernmechanix.com/2008...Qif=razor_blades_0.jpg&Qiv=thumbs&Qis=XL#qdig

Thanks!! That is a super cool article! Somebody should see about putting that information on the Wiki, if it can be validated. I think it gives some really valuable information, that maybe needs validation before taking it as is since we've aged some ~80ish years since the publication.

1) Apparently, we'll need before/after pictures with a minimum of 2,000-3000x magnification for any meaningful data, at least to compare results with 1931.
2) What does stropping do to a dull blade? "This investigation proves that its first action is to bend back into place the fibers of steel that constitute the actual cutting edge. It removes the rust formed on the edge and thus restores the blade to shaving usefulness provided the rusting has not gone too far. The fact that the bottoms of slight nicks are made as sharp as the edge and that the nicks are actually reduced in size proves that stropping has at least a small abrasive action and therefore sharpening effect. This does not mean, however, that prolonged stropping will put an edge on a really dull razor. Only honing will do that for a blade."
3) "The investigation also proves that no matter how carefully you clean and strop your razor after use, the vital cutting edge will rust away and the razor will become dull unless the edge is protected from the moisture in the air by oil or grease."

After having read the article, I am now very curious about the effect of oxidation, rust on the blade edges. The article says that corrosion can cause more damage to a razor blade than shaving. I am under the impression that the base material for DE blades is stainless steel. I imagined that the coatings used on the edges, materials like platinum, chromium, tungsten, (derby's have a chromium-ceramic platinum tungsten polymer coating), etc., are used by the manufacter to increase the hardness of the edge, so that it will maintain its "sharpness" longer. Stainless steel is still prone to corrosion, although I suspect the effect is muted. I wonder if these coatings are also there to help slow the corrosion even more (I don't know much regarding materials, maybe a knowledgeable person wants to chime in here).

Some questions:

1) Once you shave with a blade, does the coating wear down enough to expose the steel edge? If so, would 2-7 days be enough to do any significant corrosion damage to the exposed steel on the edge (if there is any)?
2) I'm not sure if they had coatings on blade edges in 1931, but the article suggested to dry and apply an oil or grease to the blade edge after use. Is corrosion still a concern today with modern edge coatings? Does anyone apply an oil to their DE blades?
3) Does anyone know how the modern coatings are applied to DE blades? Are they dipped, cooled, honed and stopped?... or is the steel edge honed and stopped first, and the coating is applied after that, never to be refined?

Really an interesting read. It's hard to say what this article can tell us regarding corking though.

 

[BurkDarkpatches]

Ok, I give. What does YMMV mean?

An angel gets his wings everytime someone asks this question. Unfortunately, they're ripped from his back everytime someone explains what it means. ;-)

Steve

 

[Gafer]

I am now very curious about the effect of oxidation, rust on the blade edges.

Pacific Shaving Company sells a blade oil specifically to combat this problem. Don't know if it really works though, I've never tried it myself.
http://pacificshaving.com/bladeoil.php

 

[mrscottishman]

Pacific Shaving Company sells a blade oil specifically to combat this problem. Don't know if it really works though, I've never tried it myself.
http://pacificshaving.com/bladeoil.php

Interesting and thanks for the link! They also have a down loadable shaving tip guide that is mostly stuff we know, but interesting to read.

thanks,
mrscottishman

 

[Futur]

I hope you guys remember that the blades in the 80 year old article must have been carbon steel blades that are very prone to rust. Rust is of coarse much less of a problem with stainless blades.

dt_in_av,
did you use cork or styrofoam to cork your blades? I only use styrofoam which is a considerably less dense material than cork. I let the blade slice under what feels like its own weight.
Also, in my experience, Merkurs is the only blade I have tried that don't really need corking. To get the result you describe, you must have corked it with cork, using more force than nessecary and have a coarse beard. Merkurs don't seem to work well with coarse beards at all.
If you want to really find out what corking is about, try a sharp and rough blade like a vertical Derby or Feather corked very lightly with styrofoam.

 

[GoldenMonkey]

I used to cork, and the first shave was always better, but the number of shaves per blade went down by one or two. I switched to hand stropping my blades before each shave, and I got the same results as corking without affecting the longevity. I can only see corking blades if they are jsut bad to begin with, but if that's the case...why use them? Life's too short to fillde that much with your blades, and there's plenty of great blades out there to choose from. FWIW, I use Swedes (which never seem to corrode or get ugly from age, due to the oil on them), Iridiums, and 7 O'Clock yellows (both of which are well made and have good QC).

 

[maurerc]

1) Once you shave with a blade, does the coating wear down enough to expose the steel edge? If so, would 2-7 days be enough to do any significant corrosion damage to the exposed steel on the edge (if there is any)?

3) Does anyone know how the modern coatings are applied to DE blades? Are they dipped, cooled, honed and stopped?... or is the steel edge honed and stopped first, and the coating is applied after that, never to be refined?
.

The article I quoted above explains how modern coatings are applied. It states that some manufacturers strop the blades first and others do not. It also says that coatings last "one to 14 days". Note that when blades are stopped at the factory they use leather wheels impregnated with alumina against the edge. Slicing a cork with a blade is not stropping it. All cutting the cork can do is remove the soft, excess coating that would normally be removed by shaving.

 

[dt_in_av]

dt_in_av,
did you use cork or styrofoam to cork your blades? I only use styrofoam which is a considerably less dense material than cork. .......

I use a champagne cork - no styrofoam. I'll give the styrofoam a try.

 

[jrowen]

The article I quoted above explains how modern coatings are applied. It states that some manufacturers strop the blades first and others do not. It also says that coatings last "one to 14 days". Note that when blades are stopped at the factory they use leather wheels impregnated with alumina against the edge. Slicing a cork with a blade is not stropping it. All cutting the cork can do is remove the soft, excess coating that would normally be removed by shaving.

I tried to look for this online... came up with a PDF link that you had to pay to get access too. Sounds like an interesting read. Thanks for passing the info, though!

When it talks about the coating lasting 1-14 days, I assume that's 1-14 days of shaving , or 1-14 shaves, and that the demise of the coating is a direct result of shaving with the blade. 1-14 days sitting on the shelf until it's spent doesn't seem nearly long enough.

In general, I would love to do some reading on techniques of "engineering" and manufacturing modern DE blades. Anyone have any knowledge they can share, or knows where to get material that might be available at a public library or free internet sites? Obviously this is getting into the "secret sauce" that some manufacturers likely don't want to share, so I understand this material may be hard to find / doesn't exist. Never hurts to ask, though.

 

[Futur]

I use a champagne cork - no styrofoam. I'll give the styrofoam a try.

I remember reading earlier in the thread from a guy that had done quite a bit of testing. He claimed that champagne corks did not work well.

What we are trying to accomplish is definatly not dulling the blade. We are trying to remove burrs that are so small they can only be seen in a microscope with 2-3000 times magnification. This really requires no pressure or resistance at all.

My corked Derbys give me a CCS with one pass plus some touchup. This is excactly the same performance as an uncorked Derby, only without the bloodshed and razorburn.

I don't see any reduction in the number of shaves pr blade, but I have a fine grained beard. Even if I had lost a shave, for me the increased comfort would be well worth it.

 

[K.T.]

...I can only see corking blades if they are just bad to begin with, but if that's the case...why use them? Life's too short to fiddle that much with your blades, and there's plenty of great blades out there to choose from.

Good point. But what if you have a great blade, except that it has the little burrs that tear up your face on the 1st round? By corking, you get rid of this variable and can judge a blade by its best performance.

Granted, it's annoying that we even have to do anything like this. But I'd rather have a smooth 1st shave rather than irritation and burn, which always gets exacerbated with subsequent shaves, even after the blade has settled down. I'd rather cork for a smooth 1st shave and break out of this cycle of irritation.

You may be right about longevity, though some report that corking has no effect on longevity or even extends the life of the blade. I guess you have to proceed according to your experience.

K.T.

 

[Jim B.]

Having to cork a new blade before using it is like having to tune up a new car before driving it. Not for me.