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Above the Tie (ATT) M2 (open comb) vs R1 (straight bar)

Which razor head feels/behaves more aggressive to you?

  • Above the Tie (ATT) M2 (open comb)

  • Above the Tie (ATT) R1 (straight bar)

  • The difference seems less than 5% to me

  • I haven't used both of these

  • I'm not sure


Results are only viewable after voting.
Which razor head feels/behaves more aggressive to you?
- Above the Tie (ATT) M2 (open comb)
- Above the Tie (ATT) R1 (straight bar)
- The difference seems less than 5% to me
- I haven't used both of these
- I'm not sure

This is the 15th, companion public opinion poll towards (hopefully) creating a B&B Modern Razor Aggressiveness Scale. Please see (and also vote at) this page for more information:

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/407692-B-amp-B-Modern-Razor-Aggressiveness-Scale

If you haven't already, please vote on all where you have experience:

1. Midpoint Reference Poll
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...iddle-of-the-road-aggressiveness-modern-razor

2. Merkur vs I Kon slants
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...on-Aggressiveness-Poll-Merkur-vs-I-Kon-slants

3. Muhle or Edwin Jagger 89 vs Merkur 34/38C
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...oll-Muhle-or-Edwin-Jagger-89-vs-Merkur-34-38C

4. Above The Tie (ATT) M1 vs Weber Polished Head (PH)
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...Above-The-Tie-(ATT)-M1-vs-Weber-Polished-Head

5. Muhle R41 (2013) vs Above The Tie (ATT) H2
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ll-Muhle-R41-(2013)-vs-Above-The-Tie-(ATT)-H2

6. Weber Polished Head (PH) vs I Kon OC
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ess-Poll-Weber-Polished-Head-(PH)-vs-I-Kon-OC

7. Joris vs FaTip
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/408782-Public-Opinion-Aggressiveness-Poll-Joris-vs-FaTip

8. Feather Popular vs Feather AS-D2
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...iveness-Poll-Feather-Popular-vs-Feather-AS-D2

9. The Very Mild Razors
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...c-Opinion-Aggressiveness-Poll-The-Mild-Razors

10. Any of these more aggressive than an EJ89?
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ll-Any-of-these-more-aggressive-than-the-EJ89

11. The Mildest of the Very Mild?
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/409698-The-mildest-of-the-very-mild

12. ATT M1 vs ATT M2
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/410532-Above-the-Tie-(ATT)-M1-vs-M2

13. ATT R1 vs ATT R2
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/410535-Above-the-Tie-(ATT)-R1-vs-R2

14. ATT H1 vs ATT H2
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/410536-Above-the-Tie-(ATT)-H1-vs-H2

15. ATT M2 vs ATT R1
(this poll)


Thank you!
Shawnsel
 
Short version: R1 can be far more aggressive than the M2 depending on how they're used, yet changing handle length changes aggression as well. Angle of approach varies results, the R1 works best on the Kronos handle starting with top cap to skin then tilting toward blade to cut. M2 works best with shorter Atlas handle with teeth to skin tilting toward blade to cut. Hand position on handles changes aggression too but not as much as length which changes balance and weight.
The M2 and R1 are different animals, blade gaps vary for one and angle of attack needed are opposite. Handle length too makes a big difference.
Comparisons were made trying the same brand/model blades to keep my findings more consistent. Start the open comb shaves with comb teeth against the skin, tilt toward blade until it begins to cut. With
solid bar start with top cap to skin, handle parallel to floor, tilt until blade begins to cut. Short handle provides more maneuverability but places more weight and pressure on the head and more aggression. Longer handle held rearward takes pressure off the head resulting in a milder shave. That's why ATT offers 3 handle lengths now, Atlas/Kronos/Colossus or short/medium/long now, each provides a different experience with each baseplate on different handle.
I have used both ATT M2 and R1. The M series baseplates are less aggressive than the Rs but because of the smaller blade gap they can take more passes and more pressure that results in more irritation thus subjectively making them seem more aggressive.
Point of fact: Having used all but the H series [I have an H2 coming today] I've found your ratings to be reversed on the make/model scale for the ATTs. I'd place all solid bar baseplates at a higher level of aggression than the open comb based on my personal experiences. For example: The R1 solid bar baseplate is more aggressive than the R2. Also they each shave differently with different handle lengths. If I put the R1 on short Atlas handle more pressure is realized, 3-passes and touch up needed, resulting in more aggression and more irritation. Put the R1 on longer Kronos handle and hold back on the handle allowing weight of the head to shave I get a 2-pass closer shave with less irritation. Also trying the longer, heavier Colossus handle today as well to see if it reduces the aggressiveness of the R1 baseplate I own. Everything tried so far tells me it will but I want to know for sure. I'll report back later once I've had time to try all three handles on the same baseplate.

Appreciate the effort you're putting forth to compile this. I do however agree that with some razors there are other variables, as indicated by variants with the ATT 'Shaving System'. Change the handle, change the shave, it's not just different baseplates anymore.
 
The R1 is more aggressive, but I find both to provide the same BBS with no weepers and very minimal irritation. I went with the M2 because my face feels less sensitive after shaving with it comparted to the R1. I'm still wrestling with whether to sell the R1 or keep it. I should note I've only used the ATT short handle so far.
 
The R1 is more aggressive, but I find both to provide the same BBS with no weepers and very minimal irritation. I went with the M2 because my face feels less sensitive after shaving with it comparted to the R1. I'm still wrestling with whether to sell the R1 or keep it. I should note I've only used the ATT short handle so far.
Adding the longer Kronos handle to the R1 changed it entirely, for me at least it shaves closer than the R2/Atlas and the shave lasts longer before feeling any stubble returning. I have the brand-new, even longer Colossus handle coming hopefully today. I'll try that with my R1 and report back here. I struggled with the same thing, was told the Atlas handle would reduce aggressiveness only to find the complete opposite to be true for me, longer Kronos handle works better with the R1 in my case. The Atlas works best, for me, on the open comb baseplates, my favorite to-date is an Atlas/R2. The Atlas/R2 is perhaps my best daily shave combo, it's intuitive, takes just 2-passes with some touch-up but not quite as close as taking more time with the Kronos/R1 which I'm finding shaves even closer. Tried the M1/Kronos first, only to find even 3-4 passes with touch-ups wasn't removing all the stubble, for my thick wiry hair the M1 was useless so I traded that for the R1. The M1 was so mild I always pressed too hard, at an improper angle one day and opened a nasty chunk of flesh on my chin that took 11 days to fully heal. Less blade 'gap' on the M1 but that blade exposure is still fairly extreme. I'd recommend at least trying a longer handle before giving up your R1. If you have one available or know someone to borrow from even the brass handle from a long Merkur would give you some idea of the R1 difference with some added length, although the weight of the solid stainless steel Kronos handle changing the balance entirely would be your best approach. Diamond-pattern knurling of the Kronos is perhaps the best I've felt though, it's not as sharp as say the Weber Bulldog but not as fine as the thinly rolled Merkur either. Its in the Goldilocks-zone of knurling! I love the feel of my Atlas barber-pole knurling, doesn't roll between the fingers and has a sure grip reminiscent of the flutes on a drill bit but obviously not as deep nor as sharp. I can definitely feel them biting a towel when cleaning it, the only time I feel it wanting to roll between my fingers. Awesome pattern, my favorite handle so far.
 
Short version: R1 can be far more aggressive than the M2 depending on how they're used
Your comments here and in other related threads are very helpful, but please also cast a vote in the polls where you have experience ... as the polls help me to more easily and transparently aggregate and average the collective opinion.


Thanks!
Shawnsel
 
Your comments here and in other related threads are very helpful, but please also cast a vote in the polls where you have experience ... as the polls help me to more easily and transparently aggregate and average the collective opinion.


Thanks!
Shawnsel
Gladly. Can you explain how, please? On my smartphone I'm not seeing a polling list with radio buttons for voting. I may just be missing it but thought it odd you'd do this without being able to cast votes. I'm just not seeing it, I'll take another look and vote if I can. No problem.
 
Gladly. Can you explain how, please? On my smartphone I'm not seeing a polling list with radio buttons for voting. I may just be missing it but thought it odd you'd do this without being able to cast votes. I'm just not seeing it, I'll take another look and vote if I can. No problem.
I've noticed that the voting portion of these polls does not show up in the app Tapatalk, but it does work on my iOS Safari web browser.

If you can't get a poll to work, please just reply to the thread (as you did above) with a one line post ... In this case it might be something like "Please count my vote towards the R1 being more aggressive" or even just "Vote: R1". Sounds like a good work around? Sorry for the confusion and hassle. I'll try to mention this in future polls.

Thanks!
Shawnsel
 
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I've noticed that the voting portion of these polls does not show up in the app Tapatalk, but it does work on my iOS Safari web browser.

If you can't get a poll to work, please just reply to the thread (as you did above) with a one line post ... In this case it might be something like "Please count my vote towards the R1 being more aggressive" or even just "Vote: R1". Sounds like a good work around? Sorry for the confusion and hassle. I'll try to mention this in future polls.

Thanks!
Shawnsel
Your outstanding! Good to know it wasn't my fault and you taking time to let me know it's my Tapatalk app not allowing the poll to show. Single line replies, OK, does sound like a good workaround especially if in the unlikely event multiple discrepancies are found. Perhaps still using multiple single lines, placing each on its own line, such as this (if this works for you)…

Found the following:
•ATT M1 more aggressive than M2.
•ATT R1 more aggressive than R2.
•Weber PH heads can vary, based on differences in manufacturing, final fit and finish, ect..

What about ratings/values given each? Are you using a spreadsheet or software data compiler that tracks and quantifies findings? Example: I mention 'Found ATT H1 to be more aggressive than H2', your data shows the opposite, H1 at 5.5 and H2 at 7. When someone mentions their findings do you manually make changes based on mere estimation, use actual math, or use software such as Excel spreadsheet built-in compiler that tracks changes and makes corrections? Just curious, as your project itself has impressed me.

I do have Safari Browser on my PC, not sure if it's available as an Android mobile app but I'll look. May be possible to access poll/vote via default Android Browser, I'll check that too. Android Browsers typically have an option to 'Open/request desktop mode', so that's a possibility too. Now that I know, as well as others having this polling issue, your poll should only get better. Before commenting I'd seen comments from others saying they couldn't figure out how to vote either, which was why I entered my comments as I did, seemed the only way. Now that I [we] know it's a Tapatalk issue and either enter one-liners or circumvent Tapatalk entirely your work should get easier and your findings more accurate and I'm all for that.

May I suggest adding info to sticky at beginning of poll threads saying 'Voting/Poll does not show when using Tapatalk app, so please use web-browser if you wish to participate'. Something to alert others? Just a thought seeing how confusing it is now. Had I known immediately it would have saved us all a lot of time, including you.

PS: Thanks again!
 
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What about ratings/values given each? Are you using a spreadsheet or software data compiler that tracks and quantifies findings? Example: I mention 'Found ATT H1 to be more aggressive than H2', your data shows the opposite, H1 at 5.5 and H2 at 7. When someone mentions their findings do you manually make changes based on mere estimation, use actual math, or use software such as Excel spreadsheet built-in compiler that tracks changes and makes corrections? Just curious, as your project itself has impressed me.

I do have Safari Browser on my PC, not sure if it's available as an Android mobile app but I'll look.

The poll also definitely works in Chrome, and probably Firefox and Internet Explorer too. If you can vote through the actual poll, that would be my preference, as it does the math for me (and makes everything nicely transparent).

If nothing else though ... please don't vote twice (both in comments and in the poll), as you might get counted twice. Also ... if you do accidentally vote in both ways, please leave a comment to remind me to remove your second vote.



Here is how this poll currently stands:
Above the Tie (ATT) M2 (open comb)
= 3 votes for 15.79% of total


Above the Tie (ATT) R1 (straight bar)
= 9 votes for 47.37% of total


The difference seems less than 5% to me
= 1 vote for 5.26% of total


I haven't used both of these
= 5 votes for 26.32% of total


I'm not sure
= 1 vote for 5.26% of total


Cheers!
Shawnsel
 
What about ratings/values given each? Are you using a spreadsheet or software data compiler that tracks and quantifies findings? Example: I mention 'Found ATT H1 to be more aggressive than H2', your data shows the opposite, H1 at 5.5 and H2 at 7. When someone mentions their findings do you manually make changes based on mere estimation, use actual math, or use software such as Excel spreadsheet built-in compiler that tracks changes and makes corrections?
Also, here is the results graph the poll currently shows if you are using a compatible browser:
$M2vsR1.jpg

As the M2 has about half of the votes as the R1 ... by my current rational ... I'm thinking I'd conclude that they R1 is on average (for most users) more aggressive than the M2 ... but only by a half point. So, if the R1 is say 6.0, then the M2 would be 5.5.

Does that sound like good reasoning? Suggestions?


Cheers!
Shawnsle
 
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My experience is the opposite - M2 is more aggressive.

I'm using the Atlas handle on the M2 and the Kronos on the R1 so I suppose I should reverse the handles and see what difference that makes. This is also my first OC, so it may be a case of too aggressive blade angle. The Kronos handle length is more comfortable in my hand.

Both of these razors are far better than anything else I've ever used.
 
This poll closes on Wednesday.

As is, if we add the "equal" votes in with the less aggressive razor, we have the R1 as more aggressive than the M2 by 10 votes to 6
(note: XP100's vote in the comments above that the R1 > M2 is included in this tally)

Even if you agree though, please cast your vote (as long as you have experience with both razors) so we can increase our confidence in this poll.

Thank you to all who have voted!


Cheers,
Shawn
 
Final results:

M2: 5 votes
Equal: 1 vote
"Equal" + "M2" => 6 votes

R1: 11 + 1 (from comments) = 12 votes


Conclusion:
R1 is more aggressive to than the M2 to the average shaver (probably by at least 1.0 point on the scale)


Thank you to all who voted!



Cheers,
Shawn
 
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