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700 nitro!

I have a life long friend who I will not name that owns a gun smithing shop,. He just finished a custom 700 nitro express side by side rifle for African game and we shot some of his hand loads at $120.00 a shell (for hand loads).
I have to say check that cannon off my bucket list. Recoil was alot like my AR50 massive but fun if done correctly.
 
At just under $5 per piece of new brass I'd be interested in how it added up to so much. With the modest 2000fps those bullets nominally move at according to Wikipedia it seems an outstanding candidate for cast bullets, which should bring the price down well under $10 a shot, less with reused brass. Midway lists the Norma brass for about $123 per 25 cases. Is it possible you misunderstood?

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At just under $5 per piece of new brass I'd be interested in how it added up to so much. With the modest 2000fps those bullets nominally move at according to Wikipedia it seems an outstanding candidate for cast bullets, which should bring the price down well under $10 a shot, less with reused brass. Midway lists the Norma brass for about $123 per 25 cases. Is it possible you misunderstood?

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It is very posable I have only recently become interested in the wild cat/deadly game calibers. I am considering a trip to Africa for a hunt on cape buffalo. 5000 per person for like 8 to 10 days. Weather sells a vangard in 375 h&h for the low price of $669 vs a sebatti double rifle for $7000 or an h&h from 15,000 to 250,000
 
Ever consider a Winchester 70?
Available in .375 HH, .416 Remington, or .458 Winchester Magnum.
MSRP is about $1,550. I am sure you could snag one for considerably less used.
 
Ever consider a Winchester 70?
Available in .375 HH, .416 Remington, or .458 Winchester Magnum.
MSRP is about $1,550. I am sure you could snag one for considerably less used.
I have also looked at the model 70s I have one in 30-06 but again the price for the weatherby is almost unbeatable. If I learned anything in the 6 years I was in the service it's that the shooter is the key point of any man fired weapons system. I'm not sure of the quality of the weatherby but I would hope it was reliable enough to get the job done consistently. but i am willing to buy a used gun from a broker and i have seen sabatti double rifles go for 2000 and i was also wrong on the price of the Weatherby its $799.00 but still if the action is good and the gun is accurate i would not be scaired to use it on safari. the part of the equation that normally fails when taking game is the shooter not the weapon. weatherby claims a sub 1.0 MOA at 100 yards so if the action is smooth and the mag feeds good i see no problems with the weapon except mabey the 375hh cartage which is the smallest legal caliber for harvesting dangerous game in most African country's that allow game hunting. personally i thank cape buffalo and big cats could be taken with 45-70 or 300 win-mag or 30-06 but i choose to air on the side of safety and overkill, a cape buffalos rib cage is nearly closed from the side which make a vitals shot from the side iffy at best with anything less than 375 H&H using lead solid projectiles unless you shoot him from the front just below the chin or in the head but even in the head the bone and horns are thick.
 
At just under $5 per piece of new brass I'd be interested in how it added up to so much. With the modest 2000fps those bullets nominally move at according to Wikipedia it seems an outstanding candidate for cast bullets, which should bring the price down well under $10 a shot, less with reused brass. Midway lists the Norma brass for about $123 per 25 cases. Is it possible you misunderstood?

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Also i forgot to mention the ammo we shot was hand cast for target but that wouldn't work for game hunting the projectiles "need" to be hardened lead solids with a soft tip, not that i would be afraid to shoot buffalo or big cats with hand cast 700 nitro or any other projectile in 700 Nitro. its like lobbing a lead golf ball at 2000fps. i cant thank of ay animal that could take a vital or head shot from that even an elephant (which i have no desire to hunt because they just stand there and all but let you shoot them, given some times they charge and yes that can get you killed but i still feel like there is a lack of sport in elephant hunting) i have don a little resurch my selfe and what little info i can find about the 700 nitro ammo i prity consistant at about $10 a shell.
 
You can achieve soft tips on hard cast bullets by standing them up in water and heating the tips with a torch. You would water drop them when casting to harden them first, then stand in water and anneal.

Ten-twelve per shell sounds better.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Savage makes a nice field grade .338 Lapua Magnum as a general rifle and for a heavy I'd suggest a .416 Remington.

Savage Arms : Firearms : Model : 11/111 Long Range Hunter

My .338 Lapua hand loads with a 230 grain Winchester Fail Safe over 96 grains of IMR7828 gave a velocity of 3150fps. When my club was testing backstop material for the new indoor range, they called me to bring it down. A member at the club was a materials buyer for General Dynamics here in town. They make the Stryker APC and he could supply the armour plate needed.

They set up a 1/4" thick by 12" wide and 24" long piece of armour plate that must of weighed nearly 60lbs at 100 yards and first my friend with his .338 RUM fired at it and left a slight dimple with a 250 grain Remington factory loaded A Square bullet. I then fired a Fail Safe at the same plate hitting it 4"s to the left of where the A Square landed. The 230 grain Fail Safe not only penetrated the armour plate, it fractured it in a 1" radius around the hole and material was missing from the exit side.

If you want penetration in a general duty rifle, the .338 Lapua excels with the right load.
 
The Lapua is a peach!
My savage fp-100 in 308 isn't physically a pretty rifle BUT I have yet to see one not be a shooter.

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Esox

I didnt know
The Lapua is a peach!
My savage fp-100 in 308 isn't physically a pretty rifle BUT I have yet to see one not be a shooter.

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Mine was a Sako TRG-S. 9lb rifle, 24" barrel and no brake lol. Shooting it off a bench was not fun! I used two pieces of 1/2" high density foam duct taped together and it ripped them!

I have yet to meet a Savage bolt rifle that wont shoot. My single shot 110 .22-250 will put 5 into 1/2" or less at 100 until you're tired of shooting it. The stainless fluted Remington in .220 Swift will do it at 200, easy.

Savage 110 SS .22.250 Leupold 20x.JPG

Remington SSF-V .220 Swift Baush & Lomb  24x.JPG
 
Savage makes a nice field grade .338 Lapua Magnum as a general rifle and for a heavy I'd suggest a .416 Remington.

Savage Arms : Firearms : Model : 11/111 Long Range Hunter

My .338 Lapua hand loads with a 230 grain Winchester Fail Safe over 96 grains of IMR7828 gave a velocity of 3150fps. When my club was testing backstop material for the new indoor range, they called me to bring it down. A member at the club was a materials buyer for General Dynamics here in town. They make the Stryker APC and he could supply the armour plate needed.

They set up a 1/4" thick by 12" wide and 24" long piece of armour plate that must of weighed nearly 60lbs at 100 yards and first my friend with his .338 RUM fired at it and left a slight dimple with a 250 grain Remington factory loaded A Square bullet. I then fired a Fail Safe at the same plate hitting it 4"s to the left of where the A Square landed. The 230 grain Fail Safe not only penetrated the armour plate, it fractured it in a 1" radius around the hole and material was missing from the exit side.

If you want penetration in a general duty rifle, the .338 Lapua excels with the right load.
Speed kills armor every time there is no doubt about that. the deal with African hunting is that most country's that allow fatal 5 game hunting only allow ammunition .375 or larger in magnum action rifles which rely limits the caliber size. I have seen first hand what the 338 lapua can do and i would have no problem using it, if it were legal for use but the projectile is too small and not legal for use in most countries in Africa. Some African countries allow smaller calibers for big cats than they do for things like cape buffalo and hippo but this is not wide spread.
 
Mine was a Sako TRG-S. 9lb rifle, 24" barrel and no brake lol. Shooting it off a bench was not fun! I used two pieces of 1/2" high density foam duct taped together and it ripped them!

I have yet to meet a Savage bolt rifle that wont shoot. My single shot 110 .22-250 will put 5 into 1/2" or less at 100 until you're tired of shooting it. The stainless fluted Remington in .220 Swift will do it at 200, easy.

View attachment 805925

View attachment 805926
Beautiful rifle and sounds like it shoots good.
 
You can achieve soft tips on hard cast bullets by standing them up in water and heating the tips with a torch. You would water drop them when casting to harden them first, then stand in water and anneal.

Ten-twelve per shell sounds better.
Thank you for the heads up. I didn't know you treated lead the same way you do hard metals. i do some black smiting in my free time but had no idea that lead was treated the same way as steal in differential tempering.
 
One of my friends posted a how-to elsewhere, I'll try to copy it tonight to make sure I didn't miss anything.

I have the benefit of having some very smart/experienced friends. I'm happy to pass on what I learn from them because they share info freely with me :)

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Esox

I didnt know
Speed kills armor every time there is no doubt about that. the deal with African hunting is that most country's that allow fatal 5 game hunting only allow ammunition .375 or larger in magnum action rifles which rely limits the caliber size. I have seen first hand what the 338 lapua can do and i would have no problem using it, if it were legal for use but the projectile is too small and not legal for use in most countries in Africa. Some African countries allow smaller calibers for big cats than they do for things like cape buffalo and hippo but this is not wide spread.

I did say as a general purpose rifle. If hunting dangerous game it wouldnt be legal no, adequate perhaps lol. You dont need a heavy for Wildebeest.

What I meant was, if you want a rifle for the antelopes and similar game, Kudu, Gemsbok, Impala and even Dik Dik, you could do a lot worse. As Elmer Keith said, "you can eat right up to the bullet hole" lol.

If you plan on hunting plains game, you may want something that will reach out quite a ways and be flat shooting. I've read even a .300 Win Mag can be a little light for of the larger antelope.

If you want a "budget" double rifle, look into Krieghoff. You should be able to find a .470NE for around the 10K mark. Of if you'd rather a magazine rifle, there are Whitworth Express rifles around and they're very nice rifles. A friend had a pair in .375H&H and .458 Win Mag. I shot the .458 quite a lot and with a 500 grain solid at 2200fps it was easy to shoot and accurate.
 
Also consider the .cz safari rifles, good solid controlled feed rifles. I have 4 right now, 375, 9.3x62, 6.5x55, and a 505 Gibbs. The Gibbs, I could not pass on the deal, it has two mercury recoil reducers in the stock, and is still a beast.
 
Also consider the .cz safari rifles, good solid controlled feed rifles. I have 4 right now, 375, 9.3x62, 6.5x55, and a 505 Gibbs. The Gibbs, I could not pass on the deal, it has two mercury recoil reducers in the stock, and is still a beast.
I would love to have any of those but mony is an issue. I know I'm talking about an African hunt and expense comes with the territory but I have to save every were I can and still be safe to even make this dream happen.
 
I bought a .375 H&H from Cabelas' gun room for just under a grand. It was on a Mauser action in Turkish walnut. Quarter rib with flip up leaves for 200 and 300 yards and a hooded front sight. 1983 model in unfired condition.
Deals are out there if you look. I do not consider a grand for a brand new 375 on a commercial Mauser action to be out of line at all. Besides, the 375 H&H is easy and comfortable to shoot. It has also taken every game animal on earth, reliably.

I would love to have a 404 Jeffry, but only to handle and look at it. I don't shoot the 375 and wouldn't shoot the 404. I enjoy the history behind them.
 
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