Glad I could help. [emoji106]
1920 Gillette Pocket Edition Question
- Thread starter KeenDogg
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- Thread starter
- #22
I got a picture of the lid. It looks like it has a couple dents. Can that be remedied or shouldn't I worry?
I know of another case that isn't dinged up. It's in roughly the same condition finish wise. I guess I'm trying to make the smartest move. Maybe I'm over thinking it. I do that.
Sincerely,
Adam
Sincerely,
Adam
This is what I've recieved so far from the seller. I'm trying to get a pic of the top of the case. I took a guess at it being a 1920 pocket edition on account of the handle, blade case, and felt. I could be wrong though. It happens A LOT! [emoji23]
Cordially,
Adam
Something appears odd with the top lining, looks too small depth wise. I have one of these I'll dig it out and take a look maybe send up a pic.
- Thread starter
- #24
Thanks HD!
- Thread starter
- #25
Could it have shrunk? I'm thinking of how some hats shrink.
Nope, no shrinkage, there is a metal backing. I have 2 of these, both with the thick cap, one with serial number M prefix, one without serial number. Go figure. Also one has a lining that is shallower than the case top, like yours is. Don't know which other ones have this top lining but I guess we could both have sets with a swapped liner? Or not.
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- Thread starter
- #27
Good to know. That is a beauty you have!Nope, no shrinkage, there is a metal backing. I have 2 of these, both with the thick cap, one with serial number M prefix, one without serial number. Go figure. Also one has a lining that is shallower than the case top, like yours is. Don't know which other ones have this top lining but I guess we could both have sets with a swapped liner? Or not.
Here's another question: can the dents in these things be pounder out, or no?
Thanks again,
Adam
The dents can usually be pushed out from the inside. I've done this when I took the lining out first. The lining in the lid will pop out easily. Go easy it doesn't take much to tap the dents back to shape 
- Thread starter
- #29
Thank you sir! Now if I can ever get the seller to meet me so I can buy the dang thing!The dents can usually be pushed out from the inside. I've done this when I took the lining out first. The lining in the lid will pop out easily. Go easy it doesn't take much to tap the dents back to shape
Cordially,
Adam
The dents can usually be pushed out from the inside. I've done this when I took the lining out first. The lining in the lid will pop out easily. Go easy it doesn't take much to tap the dents back to shape
Correct he is. I use a wooden spatula to avoid scratching the inside case and because anything with a defined edge will leave you with a ding that won't come out. I also us a round soup spoon pressed into the inside while I watch the outside under a light. I gently press and roll the spoon until the ding is mostly gone, then use thumb pressure. If the ding is more of a dent I use thumb pressure first, if it is a sharper crease I start with the spoon/spatula. You don't have to hit it with anything and can use only finger pressure.
- Thread starter
- #31
Thanks HD. I am learning a ton!
Sorry about renewing old questions, but:
Does any one know when Gillette changed from the two rivet button latch design Old Type Pocket Edition case to the rivetless design?
And, was this change only in the 501 Basket Pattern, or did they make the same change in the revised Flower Pattern (the rose, not the lily pattern) as well? Did it carry over to the NEW as well?
Was the rivetless version only used in 1930's 501 Special sets?
Thank you,
Cheers,
Kevin
Does any one know when Gillette changed from the two rivet button latch design Old Type Pocket Edition case to the rivetless design?
And, was this change only in the 501 Basket Pattern, or did they make the same change in the revised Flower Pattern (the rose, not the lily pattern) as well? Did it carry over to the NEW as well?
Was the rivetless version only used in 1930's 501 Special sets?
Thank you,
Cheers,
Kevin
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R
romsitsa
Hello,
there are at least two types of rivetless pocket cases.
I think the first one had a smooth underside, two hinges soldered from the inside, triangle cutout for the latch. I have two of these, a basket pattern and a Canadian Empire pattern.
The second type is the 501 Special, continous hinge soldered from the inside, triangle cutout for the latch and underside with reinforcing ribs.
The only rivetless set that can be dated, and I know of, is Achims:
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/Old Type/1920 Pocket Edition.jpg
So my guess would be around 1919-1920.
Some further observations:
The rivetless, long hinge case carried over into New production.
The rivetless, two hinge cases could be Canadian exclusive products.
Never saw flower or shell pattern boxes without rivets.
Adam
there are at least two types of rivetless pocket cases.
I think the first one had a smooth underside, two hinges soldered from the inside, triangle cutout for the latch. I have two of these, a basket pattern and a Canadian Empire pattern.
The second type is the 501 Special, continous hinge soldered from the inside, triangle cutout for the latch and underside with reinforcing ribs.
The only rivetless set that can be dated, and I know of, is Achims:
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/Old Type/1920 Pocket Edition.jpg
So my guess would be around 1919-1920.
Some further observations:
The rivetless, long hinge case carried over into New production.
The rivetless, two hinge cases could be Canadian exclusive products.
Never saw flower or shell pattern boxes without rivets.
Adam
Adam ~
Once again thank you. You are indeed a wealth of Gillette information.
If I may, one more question....
This is the second time that I have heard of Canadian Empires being different.
Could you please explain how they differ, or possibly attach a photo?
This would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Kevin
Once again thank you. You are indeed a wealth of Gillette information.
If I may, one more question....
This is the second time that I have heard of Canadian Empires being different.
Could you please explain how they differ, or possibly attach a photo?
This would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
Kevin
R
romsitsa
Hello Kevin,
this will be a long shot.
My Canadian Empire came without a ribbor or razor, so I'm partially guessing, but it has the same motif as Canadian Empire cases and it also has the GinD stamped at the bottom of the case, only seen on Canadian sets, so I assume these are Canadian features.
This is a 1911 ABC Empire of Achim:
Pic won't show...
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/Old Type/1910 Empire Pocket Edition 504 A.JPG
And this is mine, sorry for the pic quality:
And here is a thread on another one like mine, nicely restored:
Restoration: Gillette Empire case + old type
I didn't have the luck to own an ABC Empire, but comparing photos, my case lacks details, this could be caused by a faded stamping tool, but the braided motif running at the edge of the case is totally different on mine and on ABCs and this is a giveaway for me.
Mine has two thick braided lines while ABCs have "eyelets" between the braids, so I think two different patterns were used.
Adam
this will be a long shot.
My Canadian Empire came without a ribbor or razor, so I'm partially guessing, but it has the same motif as Canadian Empire cases and it also has the GinD stamped at the bottom of the case, only seen on Canadian sets, so I assume these are Canadian features.
This is a 1911 ABC Empire of Achim:
Pic won't show...
http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/Old Type/1910 Empire Pocket Edition 504 A.JPG
And this is mine, sorry for the pic quality:
And here is a thread on another one like mine, nicely restored:
Restoration: Gillette Empire case + old type
I didn't have the luck to own an ABC Empire, but comparing photos, my case lacks details, this could be caused by a faded stamping tool, but the braided motif running at the edge of the case is totally different on mine and on ABCs and this is a giveaway for me.
Mine has two thick braided lines while ABCs have "eyelets" between the braids, so I think two different patterns were used.
Adam
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Adam~
Thank you for the explanation. Attached is a photo the case to my 1909 Gold Empire,
and two of my Canadian Empires. The opening (loops) between the braid of the 1909 is
far greater on this. The two Canadians are greatly different between both themselves,
and the 1909 ABC set. Also, the braid around the monogram blank is different on the 1909 ABC made set.
I was always (and I not know why) under the assumption that the Canadian cases were
obtained by Gillette Canada from the A.B.C. in the same manner as those in the American
sets..... and that after the 1917 A.B.C. fire, that Gillette obtained the equipment and made
them in house (and still providing them to Canada).
Again, this is not a known fact, just an assumption.
Cheers & Thank you,
Kevin
Thank you for the explanation. Attached is a photo the case to my 1909 Gold Empire,
and two of my Canadian Empires. The opening (loops) between the braid of the 1909 is
far greater on this. The two Canadians are greatly different between both themselves,
and the 1909 ABC set. Also, the braid around the monogram blank is different on the 1909 ABC made set.
I was always (and I not know why) under the assumption that the Canadian cases were
obtained by Gillette Canada from the A.B.C. in the same manner as those in the American
sets..... and that after the 1917 A.B.C. fire, that Gillette obtained the equipment and made
them in house (and still providing them to Canada).
Again, this is not a known fact, just an assumption.
Cheers & Thank you,
Kevin
R
romsitsa
Interesting Kevin, it looks like there are three Empire pattern cases/sets?
1. ABC sets with patent info on case and cast handles made in the US.
2. Pocket sets with riveted case, no patent info, Ball end razor for US sets, thin Ball end for Canadian sets (like yours?).
3. Pocket sets with soldered case, no patent info, Canadian Ball end razor.
As your cases resemble US Empire pocket cases, maybe these were made with "new" stamps after the ABC factory burned down by Gillette US?
So the 2. case type was produced in the US for both companies, the 3. maybe only in Canada?
Ps. Amazing gold Empire set.
Adam
1. ABC sets with patent info on case and cast handles made in the US.
2. Pocket sets with riveted case, no patent info, Ball end razor for US sets, thin Ball end for Canadian sets (like yours?).
3. Pocket sets with soldered case, no patent info, Canadian Ball end razor.
As your cases resemble US Empire pocket cases, maybe these were made with "new" stamps after the ABC factory burned down by Gillette US?
So the 2. case type was produced in the US for both companies, the 3. maybe only in Canada?
Ps. Amazing gold Empire set.
Adam
Adam ~
I think that the Canadian Empire Case is one of Gillette's little mysteries.....
Another thing to ask about -
"My Canadian Empire came without a ribbon or razor, so I'm partially guessing, but it has the same motif as Canadian Empire cases and it also has the GinD stamped at the bottom of the case, only seen on Canadian sets, so I assume these are Canadian features."
What is your spin on this U.S. made 1916 set. It has the "G inside the D" on both the razor's comb/guard and the case front, between the two rivets.....
I am looking forward to your opinion. We should submit this to the History Detectives T.V. show....
Cheers,
Kevin
I think that the Canadian Empire Case is one of Gillette's little mysteries.....
Another thing to ask about -
"My Canadian Empire came without a ribbon or razor, so I'm partially guessing, but it has the same motif as Canadian Empire cases and it also has the GinD stamped at the bottom of the case, only seen on Canadian sets, so I assume these are Canadian features."
What is your spin on this U.S. made 1916 set. It has the "G inside the D" on both the razor's comb/guard and the case front, between the two rivets.....
I am looking forward to your opinion. We should submit this to the History Detectives T.V. show....
Cheers,
Kevin
R
romsitsa
Someone had a bad day at the factory. I can't think of anything else 
A
A
Adam~
It took a little looking through my files, but Eureka! I found it!
This is not one of my razors, indeed, I do not even know where
this picture came from, but it is most definitely a rivetless Shell
Pattern....
This leads to the assumption that they made them in all four of
the metal case varieties (though with some change).
Cheers,
Kevin
It took a little looking through my files, but Eureka! I found it!
This is not one of my razors, indeed, I do not even know where
this picture came from, but it is most definitely a rivetless Shell
Pattern....
This leads to the assumption that they made them in all four of
the metal case varieties (though with some change).
Cheers,
Kevin
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