Trying to understand premium synthetic knots

[tjsgarden]

I think face lathering and bowl lathering determine which type brush people like, at least, based on what I've been reading in this thread and a few other similar threads currently running. I bowl lather but I don't just paint my face. I always semi-splay the brush on my face but I don't need to smash it into my face to build up the lather.

Brushes, like everything else we discuss, are subjective. What I like, you might hate. @T Bone loves smaller knots.... I love big knots. It's entirely personal. As I've mentioned many times, I bought a few recommended brushes and didn't care for them. Not to beat a dead horse View attachment 1498161but for recommendations, we need to find people here who like the same things.

I Agree.

I am searching for a medium (24-26mm) knot that has soft tips, not much backbone, above average height and fan shaped. Based on the brushes I have, I am starting to rule out bulb shapes with stiffer and shorter length bristles.

I would also like to hear ideas about how STF fiber compare to G5C and Evo 2
This is a good discussion!

 

[nav]

I’ve got two “premium” synthetics: AP ShaveCo G5A 24mm and Ω ΞVO V1

The AP ShaveCo feels so much like a scrubby badger brush while not feeling like one. Dense, plush, makes lather like a machine, ultra comfortable whether painting or forcefully mashing into my skin.

The Ω ΞVO V1 is nice and soft and does a nice job, but crumbles into an uncomfortable heap when mashing into my skin to speed up the lathering process. My AP ShaveCo Silksmoke; a much more affordable brush/knot/whatevs; does the same job better, quicker, and for much less money.

In my crass, jaded, and all too inexperienced opinion, the Ω ΞVO V1 is just how @ShaverAZ described premium brushes a few posts up. It’s a very pretty brush, but, I enjoy my less expensive brushes from AP ShaveCo and RazoRock more.

No experience with the other premium fiber synthetics, but the endorsement of the Simpson M7 synth by @Kyle89 and @Owen Bawn and Frank Shaving Pur-Tech by @nav make them appealing to me.

editing to add My favorite brush is an AP ShaveCo Cashmere, but it doesn’t fit the criteria of being the best imitation badger fiber or whatnot, just fits the criteria of being my overall favorite brush.

The Muhle STF is a better option than the pur-tech because the knot construction (loft: knot ratio) and density (ability to splay whilst retaining its form) are just perfection!

 

[Phoenixkh]

The Muhle STF is a better option than the pur-tech because the knot construction (loft: knot ratio) and density (ability to splay whilst retaining its form) are just perfection!

Sounds like I owe to myself to try one one of these days. I've talked to Rudy Vey several times. I will own one of his, I'm sure. Truth be told, I'm enjoying my SV Manchurian badgers so much, I don't really want to use any of my other brushes. I do have to try my new FB Group Buy Alpha Shaving Company G5"D" that came yesterday. Steve supposedly came up with something "special" in his words. We'll see.

 

[albsat]

I don't know about you but I have been using just a brush out of my collection and it is the Yaqi Rainbow. This brush ticks everything for me : splay, feeling and backbone. My boar brushes which I love are getting dust. My badger brushes are almost forgotten that I have them. I hate this Yaqi rainbow.... I call it a premium brush.

 

[apshaveco]

To answer question 2. of the original post, the difference is usually the hair is imported from different countries (Germany, Japan, Thailand), which bumps up the price. YaQi etc. the hair all comes from China.

You'll also notice with the premium knot they'll aim to most closely mimic the feel of badger (certainly not replicate, but usually the water retention and feel of the backbone is more similar than the standard Chinese fibers). Hope that helps!

 

[nav]

Sounds like I owe to myself to try one one of these days. I've talked to Rudy Vey several times. I will own one of his, I'm sure. Truth be told, I'm enjoying my SV Manchurian badgers so much, I don't really want to use any of my other brushes. I do have to try my new FB Group Buy Alpha Shaving Company G5"D" that came yesterday. Steve supposedly came up with something "special" in his words. We'll see.

If you go the RV route with the 25mm knot, please keep the loft a minimum of 55mm (preferably 57mm) otherwise you'll lose a lot of the magic of the STF knot!

A guy I know went against this advice, set the loft at 52mm and he disliked the brush due to lack of splay.

My Muhle STF has a loft of 58mm and EJ is 57mm and both are my favorite brushes ever!

 

[Phoenixkh]

OK, I used my new FB Group Buy Alpha Shaving Company G5 "D" and I have to say... it is way better than I expected. It's as soft as both my G4 Ultimate and Evo Originals. It has a very nice, yet mild backbone. It feels very close to my SV Manchurians. Going from memory, it seems like an incremental improvement from the G4 brush... and different than the Evo. The Evo is very soft and had very little backbone. I have some skin issues and I don't mind that. Some others have said the Evo is floppy. I don't find that to be the case, but as always YMMV. I liked it enough that I bought another used one here on BST, so that tells you something.

Those are my top 3 synth brushes and they all do an excellent job. All three lather extremely well, splay the way I want them to... don't have any negative plastic scritch, feel great on my face.

I would say, based on all the reports here, the Muhle STF should be a consideration among the top synthetic brushes. For me, it's fairly far down on my "must have" list. I love all the brushes in my rotation. I only have three that are sitting on the sidelines. They aren't exactly horrible, just not my cup of tea. You can tell they are human designed fibers.

 

[Crisp Rat]

A bigger synthetic brush price tag only really benefits the sellers' wallet.

This is why I have not bought an EVO. I'm sure it's a fine brush, but I don't know how they justify the price tag.

 

[BradWorld]

I have and have had lots of synths. Most of them are quite good. There have been a few real duds in the past, but that is not typical now. As mentioned above, it comes down to face feel and backbone preferences as opposed to any real differences in performance. I’ve have quite a number of inexpensive synths from PAA, Razorock, etc. I also have a few customs. The difference with the customs is that you can clearly dictate the knot selection, loft, etc. That makes a huge difference to me. For example, I have an STF from Muhle, and an STF from Rudy. I told Rudy how I wanted the knot set, and how I wanted it to feel, and he knocked it out of the park! It is my favorite synth now by far. It is eons better than the brush from Muhle. But a sub $20 PAA brush can perform just as well for the most part. It’s just personal preference. It’s a great time to be wet shaving. So much amazing gear.

 

[never-stop-learning]

I've only been using a shaving brush for a few months now, and am trying to understand the current state of premium synthetic knots and brushes. From what I've gathered, that list includes Muhle STF, G5A/B/C, Omega Evo 2.0 (and also 1.0?), and Frank Shaving G5/G7. Does that sound about right? I know YMMV and all that so I'm sure there are others that people like as much or more, but these all seem widely regarded as among the best of the best.

A few questions:

1. For those who own 2 or more of these, how are they different?
2. What separates these knots from a good brush in the sub-$25 club (PAA, Yaqi, Plissoft,...)?
3. Can I find out what size/shape these are available in? I prefer fans and smaller knots, but unfortunately bulbs and huge knots seem to be trendy right now.
4. Where are good places to buy these? Obviously Frank Shaving for their G5/G7 brushes, and I know AP Shave is a great place to get a G5A/B/C. Where would you recommend shopping for Evos or STFs?

Thanks for any insight! Hopefully these aren't stupid questions, I'm just not sure what to look for apart from the specs (size, shape, loft,...). I'm open to others too if you have a favorite that I really, really, really need to add to this list to consider (synthetics only, I'm not that interested in critter brushes).

I use and like Badger, Boar and Synthetic brushes.

My favorite synthetic knots:

1. Mühle 25mm STF (@Rudy Vey can set you up with an awesome handle and work with you on your preferred loft)
2. AP Shave Co 26mm G5C Fan (the G5C Fan is really growing in my estimation)
3. Turn 'N Shave 26mm Original BOSS Fan
4. AP Shave Co 26mm Synbad Fan
5. Turn 'N Shave 26mm Timberwolf Fan
6. PAA 24mm & 26mm Peregrino Hybrid

The Omega EVO and Zenith S10 are only available as completed brushes. I hold both of these brushes in high esteem.

 

[never-stop-learning]

@T Bone - If you want to get your feet wet in the wide world of synthetic brushes without breaking your budget, here are 5 brushes that are pretty darn good for the money:

Left to right:
AP Shave Co 24 mm Cashmere
RazoRock Hive 24 Mokasoft HD
Turn 'N Shave Chess 24mm BOSS
AP Shave Co Elegant Emerald 24mm Synbad
PAA Peregrino 24mm Roswell Hybrid

If memory serves, none of these brushes are over US$20.

The Cashmere will be the softest and have the least backbone. The BOSS will have the most.

Of these five brushes, I use the AP Shave Co Elegant Emerald 24mm Synbad and the RazoRock Hive 24 Mokasoft HD the most.

Hope this helps.

 

[T Bone]

Thanks for all that, @never-stop-learning!

1. Mühle 25mm STF (@Rudy Vey can set you up with an awesome handle and work with you on your preferred loft)

Awesome, I hadn't realized in my limited searching around that STFs were available as anything other than completed brushes. I see you have several fans - is the STF only a bulb? From what I understand, STF has been around longer than any of the others I mentioned in the OP, I find it interesting that so many regard it as still being their top synthetic.

PAA Peregrino 24mm Roswell Hybrid

My first and still primary brush is a PAA Starcraft, which I think is the same knot. I do like it, it's very soft. It did get me thinking that I might like something smaller (both handle and knot), and maybe a little more backbone/scrub.

My second one is a Maggard Timberwolf for travel. It works for travel, but I definitely prefer something bigger (again, both handle and knot) for everyday use. And I like the hybrid Starcraft better, which made me think I may prefer a fan.

My other one is a Boti 22mm N3C fan. Handle is perfect size, 22mm is good, and I like the fan shape. It's not quite as soft as the other 2 though, and a little more backbone/scrub would be nice. I probably won't keep this one.

I'm starting to feel good enough about my preferences now to maybe try one of these soft SHD knots without worrying that I'll be wasting money on something that ends up being all wrong for me, which got me wondering what sets them apart from each other. At this point, I think my next one will most likely be either an AP Shave G5C or Rudy Vey STF. Both sound like winners, just depends on if I decide the fan shape or knot size is more important (and if Rudy has any STF smaller than 24mm).

 

[never-stop-learning]

At this point, I think my next one will most likely be either an AP Shave G5C or Rudy Vey STF. Both sound like winners, just depends on if I decide the fan shape or knot size is more important (and if Rudy has any STF smaller than 24mm).

Both of these are excellent synthetic knots. I still have a slight preference for the STF, but the G5C is right there.

 

[Virtus3]

@never-stop-learning could you compare/contrast the AP Shave SynBad, Cashmere, and G5C for a newbie?

 

[never-stop-learning]

@never-stop-learning could you compare/contrast the AP Shave SynBad, Cashmere, and G5C for a newbie?

First of all, bear in mind that I bowl lather most if the time.

The Cashmere is the gentlest and has the least backbone. Nice for softer soaps and creams. Paints the lather on comfortably and capably.

The Synbad has more backbone than the Cashmere. Somewhere between the Cashmere and the G5C. Still gentle on the face. A pleasure to use.

The G5C Fan is my favorite of the three. Have Andrew at AP Shave Co set the loft. Has nice backbone. No scratch or scritch. I could use my G5C every day and be happy.

Unless you need/want a custom handle, none of these brushes are particularly expensive.

Hope this helps.

 

[tjsgarden]

I am rapidly becoming a (fan) of fan shaped knots and losing interest in the bulb shapes. Is there anyone on this thread that prefers a bulb shape...and why? I am curious.

 

[tjsgarden]

First of all, bear in mind that I bowl lather most if the time.

The Cashmere is the gentlest and has the least backbone. Nice for softer soaps and creams. Paints the lather on comfortably and capably.
View attachment 1498654
The Synbad has more backbone than the Cashmere. Somewhere between the Cashmere and the G5C. Still gentle on the face. A pleasure to use.
View attachment 1498663
The G5C Fan is my favorite of the three. Have Andrew at AP Shave Co set the loft. Has nice backbone. No scratch or scritch. I could use my G5C every day and be happy.
View attachment 1498665

Unless you need/want a custom handle, none of these brushes are particularly expensive.

Hope this helps.

EXCELLENT write-up! Thank You!

 

[never-stop-learning]

EXCELLENT write-up! Thank You!

You are most welcome.

 

[macintoshBR]

As far as I'm concerned a brushes' role it to produce thick and dense lather, and all my synthretics excel at this.

This made me reflect a lot. On one hand, I agree with you that my only synthetic brush (Muhle STF M) produces a thick and dense lather with less product and faster than all my expensive badgers. However, I don’t feel it prepares my skin and hair as well as a Badger or boar brush. I think the scrubiness that you make fun of really is the key for a pleasant and effective shave.
If all you need is thick and dense lather made quickly you can always use canned foam.

I like my Muhle synthetic and I see no reason to try other synthetics, but I find it a big disservice from Muhle calling it “Silvertip” Fibre. It’s not even close to a good Silvertip like my Simpson’s or Shavemac

 

[BigJ]

…95 +% of my brushes are premium in my mind and that is all that counts!

+2! There is only one vote that counts!!