Nice little inexpensive brush! Performed very well...although, with Arko, that's not hard. Arko has always been an easy lathering soap for me. But this brush, for the price, is a nice brush.
Trying to understand premium synthetic knots
- Thread starter T Bone
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Nice little inexpensive brush! Performed very well...although, with Arko, that's not hard. Arko has always been an easy lathering soap for me. But this brush, for the price, is a nice brush.
I spent the last week and a bit comparing different ‘premium’ synthetic brushes. The ones I tried were an Omega Evo V2.0 28mm fan, a G5C 26mm fan (from Maritime Shave Co), a Mühle Silvertip Fibre 21mm fan (Rocca style, birch bark handle), and a Blackland 23mm bulb.
For what it’s worth the Mühle and the Blackland were my favourites by some distance, and about equal. The G5C was 3rd but also good, and the Omega Evo 2.0 was a distant 4th. All four cost between $70 and $100ish.
The Blackland was slightly my favourite over the Mühle - minor pros and cons, though, and they’re about equal. I love the aluminum handle, which was the most comfortable and easiest handle to hold when wet, and it looks and feels really great. The knot splayed pretty easily, just slightly less easily than the Mühle, but the tips feel slightly softer to me. I used the light coloured knot, so I don’t know if the black knot behaves any differently. Backbone felt the same as the Mühle, which is less than the G5C, but I like a softer knot.
The Mühle was brilliant too. Splays easiest of the four, and really not much more pressure required than a good badger knot. There was just a slight prickly feeling from the tips at times, which I really only felt for the final lather when my skin was more sensitive, and it wasn’t bad. Softer, with a bit less backbone than the G5C, but I like that. This was the most expensive of the brushes, with the stainless steel and birch bark handle (beautiful, grippy when wet, but cylindrical and not the most comfortable shape), but you can get it with other handles and for less money.
The G5C had the most backbone and looks exactly like a badger from the side (if that matters), and it splays ok but requires a bit more pressure than I’d like. The 26mm knot was dense and felt a lot bigger than the 28mm Omega. It was a good brush and if you like a large-feeling, dense knot with backbone then you’ll like this.
The Omega Evo 2.0 was my least favourite (and actually I liked it less than other cheap synthetics that I’ve used). There wasn’t anything I liked about it (apologies to Evo fans). The knot was sparsely packed compared to the others and the fibres feel crinkly, like crêpe. It was the most difficult to splay and it has a springiness that I found unpleasant and made it seem like it was always fighting against me. It seems that Omega made the knot less dense and they used very crinkly fibres in order to try and make it splay better, but it doesn’t work well and it just made it feel weird. I don’t know if the Evo V1 is like this or not, but I really didn’t like using this. It has the lowest quality handle of the four as well.
I actually liked the Blackland and Mühle brushes a lot, and I was surprised because I haven’t been using them much. I have a Wald A1 synthetic, which is much pricier ($250 plus tax) but does outperform all of these in density, softness and ease of splay. But if I only had the Blackland or Mühle I wouldn’t feel like I was missing anything and I would be really satisfied.
Pic, in order of my preference, L-R….
For what it’s worth the Mühle and the Blackland were my favourites by some distance, and about equal. The G5C was 3rd but also good, and the Omega Evo 2.0 was a distant 4th. All four cost between $70 and $100ish.
The Blackland was slightly my favourite over the Mühle - minor pros and cons, though, and they’re about equal. I love the aluminum handle, which was the most comfortable and easiest handle to hold when wet, and it looks and feels really great. The knot splayed pretty easily, just slightly less easily than the Mühle, but the tips feel slightly softer to me. I used the light coloured knot, so I don’t know if the black knot behaves any differently. Backbone felt the same as the Mühle, which is less than the G5C, but I like a softer knot.
The Mühle was brilliant too. Splays easiest of the four, and really not much more pressure required than a good badger knot. There was just a slight prickly feeling from the tips at times, which I really only felt for the final lather when my skin was more sensitive, and it wasn’t bad. Softer, with a bit less backbone than the G5C, but I like that. This was the most expensive of the brushes, with the stainless steel and birch bark handle (beautiful, grippy when wet, but cylindrical and not the most comfortable shape), but you can get it with other handles and for less money.
The G5C had the most backbone and looks exactly like a badger from the side (if that matters), and it splays ok but requires a bit more pressure than I’d like. The 26mm knot was dense and felt a lot bigger than the 28mm Omega. It was a good brush and if you like a large-feeling, dense knot with backbone then you’ll like this.
The Omega Evo 2.0 was my least favourite (and actually I liked it less than other cheap synthetics that I’ve used). There wasn’t anything I liked about it (apologies to Evo fans). The knot was sparsely packed compared to the others and the fibres feel crinkly, like crêpe. It was the most difficult to splay and it has a springiness that I found unpleasant and made it seem like it was always fighting against me. It seems that Omega made the knot less dense and they used very crinkly fibres in order to try and make it splay better, but it doesn’t work well and it just made it feel weird. I don’t know if the Evo V1 is like this or not, but I really didn’t like using this. It has the lowest quality handle of the four as well.
I actually liked the Blackland and Mühle brushes a lot, and I was surprised because I haven’t been using them much. I have a Wald A1 synthetic, which is much pricier ($250 plus tax) but does outperform all of these in density, softness and ease of splay. But if I only had the Blackland or Mühle I wouldn’t feel like I was missing anything and I would be really satisfied.
Pic, in order of my preference, L-R….
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- #83
That's a great, detailed comparison, @Mr. Shavington, thank you for that!
So you can get a Mühle STF in a fan? I thought they were just available as bulbs. Just when I thought I was done buying brushes!
Although looking at your picture, the Mühle looks bulbier than the G5C and the Evo, but maybe fannier than the Blackland. Maybe that's just the shape that they make STFs in, somewhere in between?
In any case, I got a 24mm G5C from AP Shave a few weeks ago. The handle feels a bit large, but I've pretty much gotten used to it - it's not unwieldy or anything - and I love the look of it, so it's not going anywhere. And while I may prefer the STF being a slightly softer, I like the backbone of the G5C, and it's still easy to splay. So it sounds whichever one I'd prefer, it would be a marginal difference, with plusses and minuses to both.
And actually, I did just get a STF, a classic small black 19mm. It just came 2 days ago, and I haven't had a chance to use it yet. I got it for travel, but am going to give it a shave or 2 this week to try it out. It might be hard to compare a 19mm to a 24mm, but I'll check back in when I've used it. And with a picture. Now I'm curious if it's a fan, bulb, or hybrid shape.
So you can get a Mühle STF in a fan? I thought they were just available as bulbs. Just when I thought I was done buying brushes!
Although looking at your picture, the Mühle looks bulbier than the G5C and the Evo, but maybe fannier than the Blackland. Maybe that's just the shape that they make STFs in, somewhere in between?In any case, I got a 24mm G5C from AP Shave a few weeks ago. The handle feels a bit large, but I've pretty much gotten used to it - it's not unwieldy or anything - and I love the look of it, so it's not going anywhere. And while I may prefer the STF being a slightly softer, I like the backbone of the G5C, and it's still easy to splay. So it sounds whichever one I'd prefer, it would be a marginal difference, with plusses and minuses to both.
And actually, I did just get a STF, a classic small black 19mm. It just came 2 days ago, and I haven't had a chance to use it yet. I got it for travel, but am going to give it a shave or 2 this week to try it out. It might be hard to compare a 19mm to a 24mm, but I'll check back in when I've used it. And with a picture. Now I'm curious if it's a fan, bulb, or hybrid shape.
Yeah, maybe the Mühle is a bulb or a hybrid shape knot. It’s whatever it looks like in the photo, and I think that’s the only one they offer. I couldn’t decide what to call it and I was vaccilating between the two. Mühle doesn’t call it anything.That's a great, detailed comparison, @Mr. Shavington, thank you for that!
So you can get a Mühle STF in a fan? I thought they were just available as bulbs. Just when I thought I was done buying brushes!
In any case, I got a 24mm G5C from AP Shave a few weeks ago. The handle feels a bit large, but I've pretty much gotten used to it - it's not unwieldy or anything - and I love the look of it, so it's not going anywhere. And while I may prefer the STF being a slightly softer, I like the backbone of the G5C, and it's still easy to splay. So it sounds whichever one I'd prefer, it would be a marginal difference, with plusses and minuses to both.
And actually, I did just get a STF, a classic small black 19mm. It just came 2 days ago, and I haven't had a chance to use it yet. I got it for travel, but am going to give it a shave or 2 this week to try it out. It might be hard to compare a 19mm to a 24mm, but I'll check back in when I've used it. And with a picture. Now I'm curious if it's a fan, bulb, or hybrid shape.
Will be interested to hear what you think of your new STF when you try it. It won’t have the backbone of your G5C but I think it’s a super brush overall.
I think I said this above, but I have the G5A 26mm and the 25mm Muhle knots, a 28mm Shavemac fiber, and a lot of others. The Muhle knot (from Rudy Vey) is hands down my favorite. I waffle between what is #2 and #3. Either the Yaqi Cola 22mm or the Shavemac are 2 and 3, for different reasons. However, as truly good as they are, the Muhle is still tops. It is so good I wonder why anyone would buy badger.
I had much better luck with the Omega Evo Original (2), thankfully. It doesn't have the crinkled fibers. It seems pretty dense to me. If anything, it might be a bit softer than I like. It didn't have much backbone, as opposed to what you are saying about the 2.0's. Odd.
The only one I like better is the Alpha Shaving G5D Face Book group buy. My ESC G4 Ultimate (2) is also a great brush for me.
I got rid of all my other synths. I haven't tried any of the $100 synth brushes but I do have a few pretty expensive SV 2.0 Manchurian Badgers.. I liked them so much, I have 4 of them, one used and three new. When I'm home, that's all I've been using since I got the first one. I rotate the three new ones and they are all perform just a tiny bit under the used Bog Oak handle SV I purchased from @SgtCrppls /Doug. The new ones improve ever so slightly with each use. What we like in face feel differs so greatly, it's hard to get advice from others unless you become acquainted with someone who likes exactly what you like. Otherwise, it really is trial and error.
I will eventually get around to buying a STF brush from Rudy. Another synth isn't really on my radar at the moment, but I probably owe it to myself to try what so many of you rave about... the 25mm STF (or the smaller knots some prefer).
I hate to do this but I guess I should list the brushes I gave away so you might be able to identify my preferences.
Brushes no longer in my possession:
Simpson Trafalgar T3
PAA Atomic Rocket
PAA Peregrino
Maseto 28mm synth
All 4 of these brushes have fans here on B&B. Just because I didn't care for them doesn't mean they aren't someone else's very favorite brush.
The only one I like better is the Alpha Shaving G5D Face Book group buy. My ESC G4 Ultimate (2) is also a great brush for me.
I got rid of all my other synths. I haven't tried any of the $100 synth brushes but I do have a few pretty expensive SV 2.0 Manchurian Badgers.. I liked them so much, I have 4 of them, one used and three new. When I'm home, that's all I've been using since I got the first one. I rotate the three new ones and they are all perform just a tiny bit under the used Bog Oak handle SV I purchased from @SgtCrppls /Doug. The new ones improve ever so slightly with each use. What we like in face feel differs so greatly, it's hard to get advice from others unless you become acquainted with someone who likes exactly what you like. Otherwise, it really is trial and error.
I will eventually get around to buying a STF brush from Rudy. Another synth isn't really on my radar at the moment, but I probably owe it to myself to try what so many of you rave about... the 25mm STF (or the smaller knots some prefer).
I hate to do this but I guess I should list the brushes I gave away so you might be able to identify my preferences.
Brushes no longer in my possession:
Simpson Trafalgar T3
PAA Atomic Rocket
PAA Peregrino
Maseto 28mm synth
All 4 of these brushes have fans here on B&B. Just because I didn't care for them doesn't mean they aren't someone else's very favorite brush.
Interesting to hear the original Evo knot is dense and not springy. I’m sure I would like that a lot more.
Probably makes sense for you to hold on to your original Omega Evo and skip v2.0. I’m curious, how does the loft on your Evo compare to my v2.0 in the photo? The v2.0 loft is quite low - lower than the others even though it is the widest 28mm diameter. I am wondering if Omega made a lower loft because of the low-density of the fibres, so it wouldn’t be too floppy. If so, I think that’s another mistake just to incorporate the crinkly fibres and try to make it splay. It does feel sparse, as well as unnaturally springy.
I'll measure mine... As close as I can get with just a dial caliper: 53mm. My G4 Ultimate is listed as 50mm but its loft is a bit higher than the Evo Original.
When I first showed up on B&B, my main mission was to find a synth brush that was as good or better than the ESC Ultimate. It took those 4 tries I listed above before I got the Evo. I still like the handle on the Ultimate better than any of my other brushes and I have 23 of them. LOL... including a second Ultimate. I bought that one out of fear I'd never find a better one.
When I first showed up on B&B, my main mission was to find a synth brush that was as good or better than the ESC Ultimate. It took those 4 tries I listed above before I got the Evo. I still like the handle on the Ultimate better than any of my other brushes and I have 23 of them. LOL... including a second Ultimate. I bought that one out of fear I'd never find a better one.
1. I find the knots of various makers quite different, varying from coarse to fine, stiff to soft, dense to loose and curly to straight. Quite a few variables. I do enjoy Muhle's STF and Simpsons Sovereign.
2. They look and behave more natural, and are more effective.
3. Have a look at the Trafalgar and the Chubby 2 in Simpson's Sovereign then.
4. Simpsons: Brushes - Synthetic Fibre Brushes - https://www.simpsonshavingbrushes.com/store/brushes/synthetic-fibre-brushes/ (I just acquired that St Mary's and an Eagle). The Trafalgar is here: Trafalgar T2 Synthetic Fibre faux Ivory - https://www.simpsonshavingbrushes.com/store/brushes/synthetic-fibre-brushes/trafalgar-T2-synthetic-fibre-faux-ivory
This Captain comes also highly recommended: The Captain Sovereign Grade Synthetic Fibre faux Ivory - https://www.simpsonshavingbrushes.com/store/brushes/synthetic-fibre-brushes/the-captain-sovereign-grade-synthetic-fibre-faux-ivory
Muhle's are here: Mühle Rasierpinsel | Tradition. Handwerk. Design - https://www.muehle-shaving.com/en/Shop/Shaving-brushes/?order=topseller&p=1&properties=85d430c4362b48c484fb5b34ffc7aac0. Instead of the Classic, maybe consider the Kosmo: KOSMO Shaving Brush | Yes | ja | Silvertip Fibre® | KOSMO | Shaving Brush | Bog oak | 31 H 873 - https://www.muehle-shaving.com/en/KOSMO-Shaving-Brush/31-H-873
I can only dream of owning a dial caliper. But with a tape measure and one eye closed I measure the Evo v2.0 loft at 50mm. It was quoted as 51mm on the website. So it does seem at least 2mm lower than the v1.
My G5C is set at slightly higher loft - 51mm, but it’s only a 26mm knot so the ratio is close to 2:1
The Muhle STF is also the favorite of the synthetics that I’ve tried as well. @Mr. Shavington, I’m curious why you left your Wald out of of this comparison.
I just thought because I had reviewed it in more detail elsewhere, and it’s not a comparable price. But you’re right, part of the reason I did this was to see what else I liked best and how close or far it is from the Wald.
So, I’d say compared to the Blackland and Mühle that I liked the best, the Wald feels much more luxurious - that’s probably the biggest difference due to the really densely packed, ultra-fine fibres. The tips are a lot softer than the Mühle and Blackland, and with the high density it almost feels like one really fat fibre rather than you sensing all the individual fibres - hard to describe really but you do feel the density, in a luxurious way. Like people describe certain badger brushes as a wall of badger - it’s a bit like that, a wall of super-soft fibre. The Wald also has more backbone than even the G5C and yet it splays much easier than any of these - quite effortlessly, really. It also scrubs very well and with a nice feeling when you want it to. I think it’s just a step up in every way.
I do think if you like the way synthetic feels and performs and you’re thinking about buying two or three premium synthetic brushes, it’s worth considering one Wald A1 for the money instead. Or if you have several nice badgers in this price range and you want to add something new, this might be better than buying another badger. Certainly the handle is truly high-end in quality and finish, the same as Jannik puts on his €430 badger brushes (plus tax) but you’re paying €180 less for the synthetic, and the knot is still hand-tied by Jannik.
I actually don’t see any performance disadvantage with the Wald A1 compared to a high-end badger, unless you’re a high backbone fiend or you just don’t like the soft feel of synthetic knots at all - for some badger guys the Wald would feel too soft on the skin, but a synthetic user already appreciates this quality and the Wald has more of it. If you do like synthetics then the Wald is all the good points magnified, and has none of the disadvantages (like poorer splay or drying out). I guess the only thing is that it takes about as long to dry as a badger does, so you’d choose a Mühle or Blackland for travel.
Ultimately if you never tried the Wald you would never feel you’re missing anything with either the Mühle or Blackland, and they are fantastic. Nobody ever felt these other synthetics weren’t soft enough. But if you do try the Wald you will probably feel it beats them in every way. I know not everyone is open to the idea of a €250 synthetic brush, though, and of course that’s reasonable.
First world problems, honestly. Incidentally, Wald’s last drop had 15 A1 brushes and it was more than 24hrs before they sold out, so they are quite gettable if you join his mailing list. The last two drops were for pre-orders so you could choose whatever handle shape, colourway and knot shape you wanted. His website doesn’t display all the colour options so you need to look through his Instagram or Facebook posts to see them all and the names.
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Here’s a pic of my Wald A1, for anyone who didn’t see my thread about it. This is the Nimbus handle shape, Werther’s (butterscotch) colour and the fan knot shape.
And here is an exclusive reveal of my second A1 (which will arrive tomorrow, so this is Jannik’s rather professional photo of it). Same Nimbus shape and fan knot, but the Vintage Blue colourway. Groovy.
And here is an exclusive reveal of my second A1 (which will arrive tomorrow, so this is Jannik’s rather professional photo of it). Same Nimbus shape and fan knot, but the Vintage Blue colourway. Groovy.
Thanks for the detailed reply. I confess you’ve got me VERY curious about the Wald.
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- #95
Same. I don’t need or even really want another brush, but these sound awesome. Happily, $270 is a strong deterrent, and a 29mm brush sounds enormous, I feel like 24mm is quite large enough for me.
Synthetics tend to feel a bit smaller than badger, though, since they don’t bloom and the loft is usually a bit lower, so I’d say the 29mm Wald A1 feels about the same as a 26mm badger. Large but not like a 29mm badger would be. But, yeah, definitely a significantly bigger brush than my 21mm STF or 23mm Blackland.
Just to add to the chorus, I have a 24mm G5C fan from AP Shave Co and a Rudy Vey Muehle STF 25mm. And I would suggest there is a meaningful difference between the two, in favor of the Rudy Vey Muehle STF. I am planning a more detailed comparison, including a PAA Amber Aerolite (for a cheaper brush data point), once I get through a sampling round of new soaps. I love the aesthetic of my G5C but haven't used it since receiving the Muehle STF.
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- #98
I’ve only been at this for about a year and have only used synthetics. Started with a 24mm PAA and felt like that was as big as I needed. I’d have gotten the G5C as a 22mm if I could have. So I’ma keep telling myself that the Wald is too big at least, because I certainly don’t NEED one.
I'm trying to understand premium brushes in general, regardless if they are badger, boar or synthetic. I mean, I understand that some of the brushes have fancy handles, but that still doesn't explain the high price, given the fact that most are made out of plastic/resin or some other type.
Fun fact: Do you know what badger and synthetic brushes have in common? Almost all (probably between 90% and 99%) of the knots and bristles of both come from China. I really wanted to buy a non Chinese made synthetic brush, but I highly doubt that the knots of the whiskers won't be from China and I just moved on.
Fun fact: Do you know what badger and synthetic brushes have in common? Almost all (probably between 90% and 99%) of the knots and bristles of both come from China. I really wanted to buy a non Chinese made synthetic brush, but I highly doubt that the knots of the whiskers won't be from China and I just moved on.
According to the internet 24% of nylon is produced in China and 76% isn’t. The odds are in your favour.
