Trying to understand premium synthetic knots

[T Bone]

I've only been using a shaving brush for a few months now, and am trying to understand the current state of premium synthetic knots and brushes. From what I've gathered, that list includes Muhle STF, G5A/B/C, Omega Evo 2.0 (and also 1.0?), and Frank Shaving G5/G7. Does that sound about right? I know YMMV and all that so I'm sure there are others that people like as much or more, but these all seem widely regarded as among the best of the best.

A few questions:

1. For those who own 2 or more of these, how are they different?
2. What separates these knots from a good brush in the sub-$25 club (PAA, Yaqi, Plissoft,...)?
3. Can I find out what size/shape these are available in? I prefer fans and smaller knots, but unfortunately bulbs and huge knots seem to be trendy right now.
4. Where are good places to buy these? Obviously Frank Shaving for their G5/G7 brushes, and I know AP Shave is a great place to get a G5A/B/C. Where would you recommend shopping for Evos or STFs?

Thanks for any insight! Hopefully these aren't stupid questions, I'm just not sure what to look for apart from the specs (size, shape, loft,...). I'm open to others too if you have a favorite that I really, really, really need to add to this list to consider (synthetics only, I'm not that interested in critter brushes).

 

[musicman1951]

I only use synthetics for travel, so I'm not an expert. But of my collection of $12-$24 synthetics and the original EVO, the EVO has a lot more backbone and is way more reluctant to throw lather around the bathroom.

I do want to find out the difference between the EVO and STF brushes.

 

[Phoenixkh]

I have two Evo Originals. The best place I've found to shop for them is The Razor Company.. they were out of stock of the Evo 2.0 brushes a few days ago but Jason said they get them in all the time, so check their site off and on for new stock.

I gave Jason a call the other day. It's worth the phone call. He has used them himself.... both of the Evo's and the AP Shave G5's they sell. I didn't ask him about the STF brushes.

The Alpha Shaving Company G5"D" showed up today.... it's very soft when dry. I'll use it tomorrow and report back

I also have the ESC Ultimate that Alpha Shaving Company make for them... it's a G4 and is lovely. Its anodized two tone aluminum handle is my favorite of all my synths. Actually, I have 22 brushes now and that handle is as good as any of them and better than most.

As I've said in different threads, the Evo Original is a great brush... my favorite synth. Jason said, with his face, he can't tell the difference between the Evo Original and the 2.0 so to me, buy the handle you love the most. I realize, YMMV and all that, but I don't think you'll be disappointed with either.

I haven't purchased any of the Frank Shaving or Yaqi brushes but I did buy two of the often recommended PAA brushes i.e., the Peregrino and the Atomic Rocket. The Atomic rocket is very soft and feels good on the face. I could ever get used to the extra large handle so I passed it along. I don't care for the Peregrino at all. It's far too scratchy/scritchy for my face. I would pass it along but it's so annoying to me, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. That said... it shows up here quite often in the SOTD threads and the people love it. It's just sitting in a drawer at the moment.

 

[Ron R]

I have lots of synthetic and natural hair brushes and what it really becomes is a persons brush gratifying face feel is what turns a person on to enjoy that brush that gives 4-6 minutes of pure solitude pleasure every morning preparing the lather to applying lather after each pass, luxury softness, the scrub or just painting lather.
Cleaning and storing for the next rotation to come along knowing what the last experience was like with that particular bush offered is what most folks like about any brush ever made is about how to sum it up. 95 +% of my brushes are premium in my mind and that is all that counts!

 

[Phoenixkh]

I have lots of synthetic and natural hair brushes and what it really becomes is a persons brush gratifying face feel is what turns a person on to enjoy that brush that gives 4-6 minutes of pure solitude pleasure every morning preparing the lather to applying lather after each pass, luxury softness, the scrub or just painting lather.
Cleaning and storing for the next rotation to come along knowing what the last experience was like with that particular bush offered is what most folks like about any brush ever made is about how to sum it up. 95 +% of my brushes are premium in my mind and that is all that counts!

I couldn't agree more. I have a few synths that are less than stellar but they aren't in my rotation.... My wife is in the process of trying them out... along with a few of my favorites. I have no idea what a brush feels like on ones legs, etc. She'll let me know. I have a very soft badger that just showed up... it's a bit too soft for my face. It's very different than the other Manchurian I own. I hope she loves it... it has one of the nicest handles I own.

 

[Possum092]

I love syns but they all seem to lack good backbone. I am a boar convert nowadays.

 

[T Bone]

Thanks, @Phoenixkh. You’ve built up quite the collection of brushes! I’ll check out The Razor Company tomorrow.

It looks like with the Evo they don’t sell the knots, you buy the brush and just get whatever loft they set it at. Is this correct? How do your Evos compare to the Atomic Rocket as far as backbone, scrub, splay, etc.?

 

[Phoenixkh]

Thanks, @Phoenixkh. You’ve built up quite the collection of brushes! I’ll check out The Razor Company tomorrow.

It looks like with the Evo they don’t sell the knots, you buy the brush and just get whatever loft they set it at. Is this correct? How do your Evos compare to the Atomic Rocket as far as backbone, scrub, splay, etc.?

I like the Evo's I have better (2 as I mentioned, both Original) but the Atomic Rocket is has a large which I prefer, about the same as the Evo, though I think the Evo is listed as 28mm and the Rocket is 26mm... for me, it didn't fling lather on the mirror. The softness was equal. Neither has what I'd call a lot of backbone... but splay nicely without any scritch when they are splayed. I have found, again this is YMMV, the synths with backbone similar to either badger or mixed knots like the Semogue Owner's Club Mistura brushes don't feel quite right. It's hard to quantify, but I'd rather have a synth like the Evo or Atomic Rocket than one with lots of backbone. The PAA Peregrino has a lot more backbone than the other two but it feels like bits of plastic are sticking into my face as opposed to the feeling of natural bristles.

The loft is set but is right for both brushes, in my opinion. As I've said before, the Atomic Rocket handle was the problem for me. You might love it. It is certainly priced right. I sent mine to a woman B&B'er and she loves it for her legs, including the large handle.

As you are discovering, brushes are entirely subjective as has been mentioned. I don't know what your price point is or if you want to stick with Synths only. For a medium priced natural bristle that feels wonderful without a lot of break-in, I can't recommend the SOC Mistura brushes enough. I have two of them, one with the Taj handle.. the other Butterscotch (my wife says.....ummmm that isn't "butterscotch.. it's Orange. She doesn't like it but I sure do. They are smaller: 24mm but they are soooo nice. If I didn't want to see what a good full badger brush felt like, I would have been satisfied with the Misturas. They are wonderful. The wood handle SOC Misturas are less expensive but only by a few dollars.

Sorry for rambling on. The Atomic Rocket would be an inexpensive option for you. The problem for me was.... as you might remember, I showed up here with an Executive Ultimate G4 brush that I still love. So I was searching for a brush that I liked as much or better. So I tried the two PAA brushes I mentioned above. Then a Simpson Trafalgar T3 (used $20), a Maseto 28. I wasn't happy with any of them. I was advised to try the Omega Evo... I was set. Lovely brushes. But your preferences might be different.

 

[T Bone]

I like the Evo's I have better (2 as I mentioned, both Original) but the Atomic Rocket is has a large which I prefer, about the same as the Evo, though I think the Evo is listed as 28mm and the Rocket is 26mm... for me, it didn't fling lather on the mirror. The softness was equal. Neither has what I'd call a lot of backbone... but splay nicely without any scritch when they are splayed. I have found, again this is YMMV, the synths with backbone similar to either badger or mixed knots like the Semogue Owner's Club Mistura brushes don't feel quite right.

I have a PAA as well, the Starcraft, but it sounds a lot like how you describe the Atomic Rocket, only with a 24mm knot - nice and soft, not a lot of backbone, a bigger handle than I need or really want. I like it, but am intrigued by those who talk of the soft, dense, luxurious feel of some of these high density premium knots. If the Evo doesn't have much backbone either, then it might not be for me (although @musicman1951 says above that his has a lot more backbone than his cheaper synths).

The PAA Peregrino has a lot more backbone than the other two but it feels like bits of plastic are sticking into my face as opposed to the feeling of natural bristles.

Yeah, that doesn't sound good to me either!

As you are discovering, brushes are entirely subjective as has been mentioned. I don't know what your price point is or if you want to stick with Synths only.

Just synths.

Sorry for rambling on. The Atomic Rocket would be an inexpensive option for you. The problem for me was.... as you might remember, I showed up here with an Executive Ultimate G4 brush that I still love. So I was searching for a brush that I liked as much or better.

That's pretty much where I am, I like the Starcraft but don't love it, so was trying to see if I can find one I like even better. I was thinking I'd get a 24mm G5C or 22mm G5A from AP Shave (Andrew doesn't carry 22mm G5C, says the small knots don't sell ), just waiting to see if he drops a handle I really like or maybe just pick one he has in stock. But it seems there are several other soft, dense, premium knots out there, and was hoping to find out how they compare; hence this thread!

 

[Kyle89]

For what it's worth, since I've been using Simpson synthetics (platinum fiber), most of my badger brushes have been packed away. The Duke 3 knot in my opinion needed slighty more loft but the M7 nailed it (for me). I did read somewhere that the fiber is very similar than the fiber on the Evo.

I don't think I'll be a total synthetic convert anytime soon but I could if I needed to. Haven't felt that with other synthetics of the past that I've tried.

 

[ShaverAZ]

I have an accumulation of boar, badger, horse and synthetics. As far as I'm concerned a brushes' role it to produce thick and dense lather, and all my synthretics excel at this. All this blather about scrubbiness, etc. is face cleaning best left to loofas or washclothes.
IMO the most significant difference between cheap and expensive synthetic brushes is the cost of a fancy handle. A bigger synthetic brush price tag only really benefits the sellers' wallet.

 

[T Bone]

I have two Evo Originals. The best place I've found to shop for them is The Razor Company.. they were out of stock of the Evo 2.0 brushes a few days ago but Jason said they get them in all the time, so check their site off and on for new stock.

Hmm, I just checked out The Razor Company. I'm looking to go <= my 24mm Starcraft, and fan shape if possible, but those Evos are all bigger, all bulbs, and all more expensive than a G5 from AP Shave even with a handcrafted handle. If Omega doesn't make any smaller Evos, then I can scratch that off my list.

OTOH, poking around some more, there are STFs at 23, 21, and even 19mm. Definitely curious to get comparisons between some of these brushes from people who own more than 1. Maybe I'll just have to get a G5C and one of those 21mm STFs to compare myself...

 

[tjsgarden]

I am enjoying this and similar synthetic brush threads.
@Phoenixkh , do you (or anyone else) have experience with the STF fiber and how it compares to G5C in terms of softness?

 

[thombrogan]

I’ve got two “premium” synthetics: AP ShaveCo G5A 24mm and Ω ΞVO V1

The AP ShaveCo feels so much like a scrubby badger brush while not feeling like one. Dense, plush, makes lather like a machine, ultra comfortable whether painting or forcefully mashing into my skin.

The Ω ΞVO V1 is nice and soft and does a nice job, but crumbles into an uncomfortable heap when mashing into my skin to speed up the lathering process. My AP ShaveCo Silksmoke; a much more affordable brush/knot/whatevs; does the same job better, quicker, and for much less money.

In my crass, jaded, and all too inexperienced opinion, the Ω ΞVO V1 is just how @ShaverAZ described premium brushes a few posts up. It’s a very pretty brush, but, I enjoy my less expensive brushes from AP ShaveCo and RazoRock more.

No experience with the other premium fiber synthetics, but the endorsement of the Simpson M7 synth by @Kyle89 and @Owen Bawn and Frank Shaving Pur-Tech by @nav make them appealing to me.

editing to add My favorite brush is an AP ShaveCo Cashmere, but it doesn’t fit the criteria of being the best imitation badger fiber or whatnot, just fits the criteria of being my overall favorite brush.

 

[Phoenixkh]

I think face lathering and bowl lathering determine which type brush people like, at least, based on what I've been reading in this thread and a few other similar threads currently running. I bowl lather but I don't just paint my face. I always semi-splay the brush on my face but I don't need to smash it into my face to build up the lather.

Brushes, like everything else we discuss, are subjective. What I like, you might hate. @T Bone loves smaller knots.... I love big knots. It's entirely personal. As I've mentioned many times, I bought a few recommended brushes and didn't care for them. Not to beat a dead horse

but for recommendations, we need to find people here who like the same things.

 

[T Bone]

I’ve got two “premium” synthetics: AP ShaveCo G5A 24mm and Ω ΞVO V1

The AP ShaveCo feels so much like a scrubby badger brush while not feeling like one. Dense, plush, makes lather like a machine, ultra comfortable whether painting or forcefully mashing into my skin.

The Ω ΞVO V1 is nice and soft and does a nice job, but crumbles into an uncomfortable heap when mashing into my skin to speed up the lathering process. My AP ShaveCo Silksmoke; a much more affordable brush/knot/whatevs; does the same job better, quicker, and for much less money.

In my crass, jaded, and all too inexperienced opinion, the Ω ΞVO V1 is just how @ShaverAZ described premium brushes a few posts up. It’s a very pretty brush, but, I enjoy my less expensive brushes from AP ShaveCo and RazoRock more.

No experience with the other premium fiber synthetics, but the endorsement of the Simpson M7 synth by @Kyle89 and @Owen Bawn and Frank Shaving Pur-Tech by @nav make them appealing to me.

Thanks, @thombrogan! Experienced or not, that's very helpful!

(But yikes! $100 for an M7! )

 

[T Bone]

Brushes, like everything else we discuss, are subjective. What I like, you might hate. @T Bone loves smaller knots.... I love big knots. It's entirely personal. As I've mentioned many times, I bought a few recommended brushes and didn't care for them. Not to beat a dead horse View attachment 1498161but for recommendations, we need to find people here who like the same things.

Agreed, that's why I was looking for info and comparisons more than recommendations, and your posts about your Evos have been helpful!

 

[thombrogan]

I don't need to smash it into my face to build up the lather.

I don’t need to, either. ‘Painting’ builds the same lather with less air added (making ‘painting’ better for my shaves), but I sometimes do it anyways and so do others, so I felt it was worth sharing. Especially since none of my affordable synths or my other pricey synth crumbled like that.

 

[thombrogan]

$100 for an M7!

Want to guess why I haven’t tried a Simpson Platinum synthetic or Mühle STF yet?

 

[Kyle89]

Thanks, @thombrogan! Experienced or not, that's very helpful!

(But yikes! $100 for an M7! )

Haha yeah it's stupid money for a synth. Nabbed mine for 75 which is still a lot for a synth, but it's turning out to be my #1. Hopefully it lasts for a REALLY long time.