Free? I don't think so. In the end, it'll come back to everyone, even those getting the "free" benefits. Also, if this "free" health care is anything like the other "free" things we get in the US, such as education, I would expect the quality to be very low.
Why the health care problem will never be solved
- Thread starter ouch
- Start date
- Status
Free? I don't think so. In the end, it'll come back to everyone, even those getting the "free" benefits. Also, if this "free" health care is anything like the other "free" things we get in the US, such as education, I would expect the quality to be very low.
Not to mention that nothing handed out by the government is free. Be it paid for in taxes, a lower standard of care or loss of freedom, government controlled health insurance will be anything but free. If we think healthcare is expensive now...
There is no such things as free healthcare. Free healthcare means that you don't pay for the service at the time you seek medical help. You pay for it in higher taxes that you pay directly or in the hidden taxes that the government charges businesses that get passed on to you in higher prices.
I read on Monday that it would cost $1 trillion dollars for the government to be able to insure 16 million of the almost 48 million people in the US for 10 years. By the end of the week the CBO pointed out that it would really cost $1.6 trillion. So taking into account the realities of government waste and incompetence, we can assume the cost will be $2 trillion+. I trust the private sector to better address this issue than the government ever could.
I read on Monday that it would cost $1 trillion dollars for the government to be able to insure 16 million of the almost 48 million people in the US for 10 years. By the end of the week the CBO pointed out that it would really cost $1.6 trillion. So taking into account the realities of government waste and incompetence, we can assume the cost will be $2 trillion+. I trust the private sector to better address this issue than the government ever could.
If we have money to kill people, we have the money to help people. Anything short of universal coverage is unacceptable.
Your comment was more inflammatory than the one you took umbrage at.
I have experience with them. Just two examples:
1. Our son was admitted at the age of 11 months, and they didn't have bottles or formula to feed him. My wife had dry formula with her, but every time she needed a bottle, the nurse had to dump out a brand new bottle of some kind of pedialyte solution to use. I wonder how much that kind of waste contributes to health care costs?
2. When my son was admitted, we had to wait 8 hours for a bed, because the only available room had 2 little sisters in it. Only one of the sisters was sick, but their mother dumped them off there and the healthy one had no place to go, so my sick son had to wait until the healthy child was picked up by a social worker.
Couldn't agree more.
health care coverage is a topic that is important to me, and I think God we have excellent insurance that covers without question. We don't need referrals to see a specialist I just make the necessary appointments. Out of all the tests any doctor wanted or needed to do we only had one test that needed to be preauthorized and that was for RETT Syndrome. (that test alone is about a grand, thank god it came back negative) But we had to rule it out and it wasn't an issue and BCBS approved the test to be done.
But I feel very lucky because even though two of my kids do have special needs they aren't as bad off as other children. I shutter to think what those families go through when it comes to their medical bills. We see specialists often enough to drive me crazy and monthly medication bills I'd rather not have. One example is of one medication our son needed for sleeping. With our BCBS insurance we still paid about 120 a month, and insurance covered almost 500, this is for a 1 month supply. But we had to discontinue that due to the side effects. Now back to another medication that is a lot cheaper but it's only temporary until his body gets use to it and we have to keep upping the dose, until we have to stop it because of unsafe dose rates. So until we can get him off sleep meds we will have no choice but to switch between the two because there are no other options. But I need sleep as well and he's too young to leave up alone at night so we don't have many choices. And we have tried about everything else under the sun.
Dental insurance is another big one that hit close to home. This past week my son has had 2 apts with two dentists. One referred us to a peds specialist, and now is scheduled for oral surgery because the work he needs done will be to invasive to do in the office. If we didn't have insurance the cost of the dentist would be almost 1300, with insurance coverage we pay nearly 400. Of course I don't know what the hospital is going to charge yet for outpatient surgery and the OR and the anesthesiologist but that gets covered under our regular medical insurance so it shouldn't be so bad.
But I feel very lucky because even though two of my kids do have special needs they aren't as bad off as other children. I shutter to think what those families go through when it comes to their medical bills. We see specialists often enough to drive me crazy and monthly medication bills I'd rather not have. One example is of one medication our son needed for sleeping. With our BCBS insurance we still paid about 120 a month, and insurance covered almost 500, this is for a 1 month supply. But we had to discontinue that due to the side effects. Now back to another medication that is a lot cheaper but it's only temporary until his body gets use to it and we have to keep upping the dose, until we have to stop it because of unsafe dose rates. So until we can get him off sleep meds we will have no choice but to switch between the two because there are no other options. But I need sleep as well and he's too young to leave up alone at night so we don't have many choices. And we have tried about everything else under the sun.
Dental insurance is another big one that hit close to home. This past week my son has had 2 apts with two dentists. One referred us to a peds specialist, and now is scheduled for oral surgery because the work he needs done will be to invasive to do in the office. If we didn't have insurance the cost of the dentist would be almost 1300, with insurance coverage we pay nearly 400. Of course I don't know what the hospital is going to charge yet for outpatient surgery and the OR and the anesthesiologist but that gets covered under our regular medical insurance so it shouldn't be so bad.
If it was as simple as this, we wouldn't be faced with what we have today. Destruction is and always will be easier than doing good. And people do get helped, even if they don't have miney, or aren't even U.S. citizens. Many illegal immigrants use the ER as their ONLY care provider. Adding to the costs for us.
Not being a U.S. citizen doesn't make you "illegal". There are millions of legal residents, you know.
Those individuals that are actually "illegal" don't tend to seek out medical care unless in extreme emergencies. And that cost is minuscule compare to everything else. Using illegal immigrants as scapegoats for the soaring cost of health care is disingenuous.
Usually when you claim something, you back it up with some thought or logic...
Nobody is blaming all the health care cost on illegals. I should have clarified. I figured legal residents would be excluded with the context. My bad. It is really only a problem if you live somewhere with a heavy population of them. And "extreme emergencies" only? I don't think so. I see them in the ER all the time.
My counterpoint is to all those who are going on about how "millions" of our people have no access to health care. If somebody who got smuggled in does, what's stopping any citizens?
You post about a subject that is inextricably entwined with politics, but you will brook no replies with political content? Say what? Anyway, a few thoughts: finding the cause of an allergy is tedious and time-consuming, and from a medical standpoint rather pointless because the treatment is the same anyway...they shoot you up with steroids. You can find the cause yourslf by a process of elimination, which is all a doctor could do.
Emergency rooms are supposed to be for emergencies, not for things you could handle with your own regular doctor. But many people use them for non-emergencies. Many people have no insurance and cannot pay directly but they cannot be turned away (for reasons that are political...sorry!) so the hospital has to charge the others enough to cover the non-payers too. The contracts hospitals and insurance companines enter into with each other are drawn up by lawyers as much as by doctors, and can get very complicated and convuluted. My two cents? Health care is expensive because the equipment is expensive, drug research is expensive, and medical training is expensive. Ain't no government plan going to change that.
Emergency rooms are supposed to be for emergencies, not for things you could handle with your own regular doctor. But many people use them for non-emergencies. Many people have no insurance and cannot pay directly but they cannot be turned away (for reasons that are political...sorry!) so the hospital has to charge the others enough to cover the non-payers too. The contracts hospitals and insurance companines enter into with each other are drawn up by lawyers as much as by doctors, and can get very complicated and convuluted. My two cents? Health care is expensive because the equipment is expensive, drug research is expensive, and medical training is expensive. Ain't no government plan going to change that.
Our current healthcare system does have its problems, but I am leery of handing over my family's healthcare to something as inherently inefficient as the federal government. Looking at the current parts of healthcare they are in control of now, i.e. Medicare and V.A. hospitals, I can't help but think that these are examples of what we would see on a larger scale. There are still incompetent doctors, nurses and administrators at public facilities, along with waste and blatant neglect of patient welfare.
Before someone jumps in to say that I am being political with my statements, I've seen these things in action no matter who was in charge of the government at the time, Republican or Democrat.
Before someone jumps in to say that I am being political with my statements, I've seen these things in action no matter who was in charge of the government at the time, Republican or Democrat.
How is is that all these other countries can provide healthcare to all their citizens? Other coutries citizens seem mostly happy with it, there are some complaints about this and that, but nothing that seems to reach the general kvetching about healthcare in the US. I just have a hard time understanding why people don't want government run healthcare. Why can't there be a basic level of healthcare provided and then private insurance can be made for those that want the extra and above or no wait time or what have you. It would similar in many ways to what is available now - corporations could offer this insurance as a benefit to attract and keep staff. The private sector has over 30 years to figure this out and they have not. What you get are some people that have a high level, most mediocre, and many no insurance at all. I work for a university, and healthcare costs have risen from 1-2% of the total budget to almost 13% of the total budget over the last 10 years. That is unsustainable. And that is just a university. I can't imagine how much that cost is killing business in the US as well.
This is one of the best documentaries on healthcare I have seen:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/
http://www.pbs.org/healthcarecrisis/EDIT - wrong link, updated
Also, read this:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande?currentPage=all
This is inherently a heated political topic (for some reason). I don't see how it could continue for many more pages without lock down.
This is one of the best documentaries on healthcare I have seen:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/
http://www.pbs.org/healthcarecrisis/EDIT - wrong link, updated
Also, read this:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande?currentPage=all
This is inherently a heated political topic (for some reason). I don't see how it could continue for many more pages without lock down.
Last edited:
Exactly.
Well Dennis no other countries are like the United States. Many Americans are way out of touch with what is actually important in life. I know people who say they can't afford health insurance, yet they're springing for cable/dish every month, and eating out several times a week.
Your idea is sound, but having the govt take over won't solve the problems we have now.
Your idea is sound, but having the govt take over won't solve the problems we have now.
I am a citizen of the US and was on my way home from the UK, as we boarded the plane (Heathrow) my implanted defibrillator started shocking me. I had a total of 7 or 8 I just can't remember I was so groggy by then. They got me to a hospital near Heathrow and in the emergency room they put a heart monitor on me. It did not work, so the got another, it did not work, then they found a 3rd one that they took off another patient! It worked. I was there in the ER for hours and I asked for something to eat, I had not had a bite all day, and I was hungry. So they brought me a sausage roll (a sausage wrapped in dough and deep fried), french fries (chips) and baked beans. I asked if this was appropriate for a cardiac care pt. and the nurse said eat it if you are hungry, if not don't. At that point I called for a priest. For several days I was in a ward with 20 other beds (approx) and when they served food, there were not enough spoons to stir you tea or coffee! People there brought family in basic things to get them buy. The beds and the look of the hospital was something from 50's.
In the UK my friends that can afford it have private insurance so that they will not have to go into the NHC hospitals. I am lucky enough that I friends in various countries and I hear stories of their "free" health care. I teach martial arts and so a number of my friends have had torn ACL's and other such problems. One of them in Norway was on a waiting list for 3 years to surgery to repair his ACL. If you have any health problems just pray that we don't get the same kind of medicine here. Anyway - at what point does the government stop taking care of the individual? Where in the constitution does it say that it's the governments job to provide health care? Who is going to pay for this and the other stuff they are putting out there now?
My family and I have worked hard, had our ups and downs, saved, and been reasonable in our spending. Why should the government spend all of our hard earned money just to gain political power for themselves?
"The trouble with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher
I agree with that in part. If you look here, there is a summary of other capitalist democracies and how they tackled healthcare. Taiwan would seem to be a good model. They put together a study group that looked at how countries all over the world did healthcare, then picked a chose a program from that. I think the one thing to note in all of those countries is that even in Swtizerland which has the most expensive government healthcare plan, it is still significantly less than what we pay here.
I agree that people should be responsible, but I think the main difference is either you believe healthcare is a fundamental right or it is not. I believe it is a right. That is the bridge that will be nigh impossible to fix and why I don't think we can solve the healthcare problem here.
That seems to be at the crux, right there. Lots of good ideas from that link. I don't believe that going all "socialist" is the way to go, but what we have isn't working. There has got to be some sort of middle ground.
- Status
Similar threads
