Why the health care problem will never be solved

[aodenkou]

How is is that all these other countries can provide healthcare to all their citizens? Other coutries citizens seem mostly happy with it, there are some complaints about this and that, but nothing that seems to reach the general kvetching about healthcare in the US. I just have a hard time understanding why people don't want government run healthcare. Why can't there be a basic level of healthcare provided and then private insurance can be made for those that want the extra and above or no wait time or what have you. It would similar in many ways to what is available now - corporations could offer this insurance as a benefit to attract and keep staff. The private sector has over 30 years to figure this out and they have not. What you get are some people that have a high level, most mediocre, and many no insurance at all. I work for a university, and healthcare costs have risen from 1-2% of the total budget to almost 13% of the total budget over the last 10 years. That is unsustainable. And that is just a university. I can't imagine how much that cost is killing business in the US as well.

This is one of the best documentaries on healthcare I have seen:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/
EDIT - wrong link, updated

Also, read this:
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009/06/01/090601fa_fact_gawande?currentPage=all

This is inherently a heated political topic (for some reason). I don't see how it could continue for many more pages without lock down.

I will try to be polite in response to this but - really - do you expect private health care to continue once the government steps in? Sure they have it in the UK, but think about it. If the government offers low price health care, who pays the lower cost? It's subsidized by taxes, who pays taxes? Where will they get the money? Do you want a VAT of 16% like the UK? Ok, so people come off the the private health care policy, those that share the risk by paying into the insurance pool is now smaller. So to stay in business the rates of those in private health care have to go up to meet the shrinking numbers of policy holders. Higher costs, now more people drop out, oh wait - now where is Blue Cross? It's being run out of business by the government plan because they can't compete with the government because they can't tax everyone to make it "work".

Do you really want the clowns in Washington running your health care? Do you really want a socialist country where the government can ration you access to health care?

"Socialism's results have ranged between the merely shabby and the truly catastrophic - poverty, strife, oppression and, on the killing fields of communism, the deaths this century of perhaps 100 million people. Against that doctrine was set a contrary, conservative belief in a law-governed liberty. It was this view which triumphed with the crumbling of the Berlin Wall. Since then, the Left has sought rehabilitation by distancing itself from its past." Margaret Thatcher

 

[biomesh]

When the healthcare system (public or private) truly focuses on what their business is about - healing people, we will start to see a change. Right now insurance companies, hospitals, doctors, governments, etc are too focused on profits, costs, and what the system means to them instead of how to help others.

There is no easy solution, but the mentality of the healthcare system needs to be refocused so that real change can happen.

 

[ogopogo]

I agree with that in part. If you look here, there is a summary of other capitalist democracies and how they tackled healthcare. Taiwan would seem to be a good model. They put together a study group that looked at how countries all over the world did healthcare, then picked a chose a program from that. I think the one thing to note in all of those countries is that even in Swtizerland which has the most expensive government healthcare plan, it is still significantly less than what we pay here.

That PBS documentary floating around talked about the Taiwanese and Swiss health care system. They're probably the 2 most compatible models for us to follow. Switzerland is a country that's just as capitalistic, if not more, than we are. They're health care system was similar to what we have now, but in 1988 they decided enough is enough and they changed it. I don't see why we can't do the same.

I agree that people should be responsible, but I think the main difference is either you believe healthcare is a fundamental right or it is not. I believe it is a right.

+1

 

[Scotto]

If I want a really complex problem solved cheaply and without political interference, I go right to the federal government to run it.....

 

[aodenkou]

Hmm, all of my health-related matters have been handled as well as I could hope for. *Knock on wood* I'm not sure about people having to wait, but I wouldn't be surprised--the entire system is sort of mythical to me. I DO know that there aren't enough family doctors and lots of people are forced to go without. The system is far from perfect, I just like knowing that if I'm injured (car crash for example) I will be taken to the hospital and treated, and not have to have the added financial worry on top of an injury that could be very stressful and difficult. It's a small piece of mind I suppose, but I'm happy to have it.

Why is is there aren't enough family doctors? I am sure you have plenty of people there that are smart enough to go into medicine. But perhaps they are also smart enough to go into some other field that will provide a quality lifestyle for their family without the interference of the government telling them how much they will be paid.


The more subsidized it is, the less free it is. What is known as "free education" is the least free of all, for it is a state-owned institution; it is socialized education - just like socialized medicine or the socialized post office - and cannot possibly be separated from political control." - Frank Chodorov,

 

[Dennis]

I will try to be polite in response to this but - really - do you expect private health care to continue once the government steps in? Sure they have it in the UK, but think about it. If the government offers low price health care, who pays the lower cost? It's subsidized by taxes, who pays taxes? Where will they get the money? Do you want a VAT of 16% like the UK? Ok, so people come off the the private health care policy, those that share the risk by paying into the insurance pool is now smaller. So to stay in business the rates of those in private health care have to go up to meet the shrinking numbers of policy holders. Higher costs, now more people drop out, oh wait - now where is Blue Cross? It's being run out of business by the government plan because they can't compete with the government because they can't tax everyone to make it "work".

Do you really want the clowns in Washington running your health care? Do you really want a socialist country where the government can ration you access to health care?

I don't really know what the ideal plan would be, but it would be better than what we have now. You asked about a private model vs. a government plan. Well, there is the US Postal Service and FedEx, UPS and all the other carriers seems to be making a go of it - offering a service that is above and beyond or different enough that people pay a premium for it, just off the top of my head.

These are the four basic models of healthcare in the 200 countries that offer it:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/countries/models.html

The US currently is a mix of 3 of them. Quote:

"These four models should be fairly easy for Americans to understand because we have elements of all of them in our fragmented national health care apparatus. When it comes to treating veterans, we're Britain or Cuba. For Americans over the age of 65 on Medicare, we're Canada. For working Americans who get insurance on the job, we're Germany.

For the 15 percent of the population who have no health insurance, the United States is Cambodia or Burkina Faso or rural India, with access to a doctor available if you can pay the bill out-of-pocket at the time of treatment or if you're sick enough to be admitted to the emergency ward at the public hospital.

The United States is unlike every other country because it maintains so many separate systems for separate classes of people. All the other countries have settled on one model for everybody. This is much simpler than the U.S. system; it's fairer and cheaper, too."


Like I said, I don't know what the answer is. And also like I said, most places that have universal healthcare came to a decision as a country to implement it. I don't think we are anywhere near that phase, and I don't think much will happen with healthcare because of it.

 

[aodenkou]

When the healthcare system (public or private) truly focuses on what their business is about - healing people, we will start to see a change. Right now insurance companies, hospitals, doctors, governments, etc are too focused on profits, costs, and what the system means to them instead of how to help others.

There is no easy solution, but the mentality of the healthcare system needs to be refocused so that real change can happen.

If a doctor does not make a profit - how can they pay their employees? How can they pay their bills to stock and supply their office? Do you have any idea how much a doctor has to pay per year in medical malpractice? Doctors can not keep their doors open on good will and the desire to help people.

Oh let's not forget how lawyers fit into this little discussion.........

 

[bro-ham]

Could we start by de-authorizing the Medicare prescription drug program and eliminate Medicare/Medicaid? I think it would be easier to talk about social programs and healthcare overall if there were one group of people.

Having one group on their own, and another being supported by all working citizens is allowing doctors and insurers to act in conflicting ways. When we decide that public medicine is good or bad, let's decide based on what we really have to start with.

 

[biomesh]

If a doctor does not make a profit - how can they pay their employees? How can they pay their bills to stock and supply their office? Do you have any idea how much a doctor has to pay per year in medical malpractice? Doctors can not keep their doors open on good will and the desire to help people.

Oh let's not forget how lawyers fit into this little discussion.........

I never said anything about not making a profit.

 

[mretzloff]

Exactly.

I'm sorry, I must have missed something. You told me that my post was offensive, yet you never stated how. That seems pretty immature and silly to me. If you're going to tell me that I offended you, you need to tell me how, so that I don't do it again.