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simon1
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I've caught a bobcat killing pets but I wasn't armed at the time., and coyotes are thick around here.
Varmint round
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I've caught a bobcat killing pets but I wasn't armed at the time., and coyotes are thick around here.
Two and four legged.
About 60 years ago I learned that the 125-130 gr bullets in my Win 70 featherweight '06 were a lot more fun than the heavy weight bullets, especially on the shoulder. Other than heavy 205 gr cast bullets that is all I shot during my college years. I did pick up a Rem 700 varmint special while in the USAF so I could shoot military ammo and get plenty of brass. It seems as though I was pushing those lighter .30 cal bullets about as fast as the .5.56 jobs, and it was just more fun. In my later years I built a couple of AR's in 6.5 Grendel and managed to get a little CZ 527 bolt action in that caliber which is now my favorite centerfire cartridge.
You have champagne taste Chris!
I knocked quite a few yotes into the dirt out between 300-400 yds with 62 gr NATO bulk stuff back in the day. I agree going with something a bit more expensive and target like if you’re keeping pelts, but who keeps mangey ole’ yote pelts?
We’d go shoot yotes for free all day out on farms in southwestern Okieland and then just hang the carcasses on the land owners fence so he could see our production.
Buzzards and other critters took care of the clean up.
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simon1
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You have champagne taste Chris!
I knocked quite a few yotes into the dirt out between 300-400 yds with 62 gr NATO bulk stuff back in the day. I agree going with something a bit more expensive and target like if you’re keep pelts, but who keeps manger ole’ tote pelts?
We’d go shoot yotes for free all day out on farms in southwestern Okieland and then just hang the carcasses in the land owners fence so he could see our production.
Buzzards and other critters took care of the clean up.
That's what uncle and friends would do. You could go down a road and see 5 to 8 carcasses in a row hanging on fence posts. Uncle said it was a warning to other coyotes.
That's what uncle and friends would do. You could go down a road and see 5 to 8 carcasses in a row hanging on fence posts. Uncle said it was a warning to other coyotes.
Yotes are smart. They go elsewhere when they see a bunch of their family members stretched out in the sun.
We would just drive out and around SW Oklahoma around Altus, Cache and Indiahoma, looking for land owners where we could see them cleaning up large brush piles with their tractors. We knew they like to kill two birds with one stone so to speak. They would give us a few days and nights to kill as many as we could, so after the birds and critters had their fill gutting the carcasses, they could throw the hides and bones on top of their burning brush piles.
This doesn't address your .223 question anymore than politicians address inquiries; but back in my 20s when I taught elementary school, every summer I'd drive to Lubbock, or South Dakota, or Oklahoma and slay the prairie dogs with my Remington 700 ADL in 22-250. It sported a Leopold 5-20 mil dot. Just a dot dead center. That gun was so accurate you can pick the P.D's eye at 400+ yards. Great memories. I reloaded on my first Hornady progressive, and made over 1,500 rounds. It shot a 55 grain pill. In those 5 or so years of doggin', I probably have 900 rounds left. Made in the 80s--but like the Grateful Dead said, "The bottle was dusty but the liquor was clean." I was sure enamoured with a .22 cal for which you could reload.
A buddy wanted to place a small wager on a 100-yd outing about 5 years ago. He said, "How about whose ever group can be covered with a dime wins. I said sarcastically, keep the dime, I'll put my group inside of yours. I didn't make good on that promise, but mine did fit in a quarter. 5 rounds.
In his defense, the 270 is dead accurate too.
Good times.
A buddy wanted to place a small wager on a 100-yd outing about 5 years ago. He said, "How about whose ever group can be covered with a dime wins. I said sarcastically, keep the dime, I'll put my group inside of yours. I didn't make good on that promise, but mine did fit in a quarter. 5 rounds.
In his defense, the 270 is dead accurate too.
Good times.
I have a few varmint rifles (.17 Remington up to .243 Winchester. Some are wildcats) and they usually are pretty particular about what I feed them.
The real issue is what level of accuracy you are looking for. If brand "A" costs more than brand "B", it doesn't mean that brand "A" will be more accurate in your rifle. The guys have given you excellent advice in urging you to buy a box of two or three brands and see which one is the most accurate in your rifle. In my experience, one can pretty much ignore the velocity printed on the box. I've owned chronographs for years and have yet to see velocities even close to published numbers. Pay particular attention to the twist rate of your barrel. It is possible to over stabilize a bullet, just like it is possible to under stabilize one. Pick a bullet weight appropriate for your twist rate.
The holes in the paper will tell the tale. Just remember to get your barrel squeaky clean (no carbon and no jacket material) between brands while testing. With each string, the first two shots are foulers and don't count. The next three will make the call.
That Savage is a nice rifle with a reputation of being very accurate. Since it's a Savage, if the time comes when pelts become important to you, you can swap the barrel out for a Criterion in .17 Remington. The 17 Remington makes an entrance hole about the size of a BB and it won't usually leave an exit hole. With anything close to a good hit, it will drop varmints in their tracks, coyotes included. I imagine the 4,000+ fps muzzle velocity has something to do with that.
Good hunting!
Bill.
The real issue is what level of accuracy you are looking for. If brand "A" costs more than brand "B", it doesn't mean that brand "A" will be more accurate in your rifle. The guys have given you excellent advice in urging you to buy a box of two or three brands and see which one is the most accurate in your rifle. In my experience, one can pretty much ignore the velocity printed on the box. I've owned chronographs for years and have yet to see velocities even close to published numbers. Pay particular attention to the twist rate of your barrel. It is possible to over stabilize a bullet, just like it is possible to under stabilize one. Pick a bullet weight appropriate for your twist rate.
The holes in the paper will tell the tale. Just remember to get your barrel squeaky clean (no carbon and no jacket material) between brands while testing. With each string, the first two shots are foulers and don't count. The next three will make the call.
That Savage is a nice rifle with a reputation of being very accurate. Since it's a Savage, if the time comes when pelts become important to you, you can swap the barrel out for a Criterion in .17 Remington. The 17 Remington makes an entrance hole about the size of a BB and it won't usually leave an exit hole. With anything close to a good hit, it will drop varmints in their tracks, coyotes included. I imagine the 4,000+ fps muzzle velocity has something to do with that.
Good hunting!
Bill.
I keep mine fouled until the accuracy falls off. Really noticeable POA shift and increased groupings with both my .204 and 22-250 when the bores are super clean. Nothing worse then missed shots in the field until the clean bore settles back in after a few shots.
If you reload as I do, I have found that coating the bullets with tungsten disulphide (WS2 or Danzac) has all but eliminated jacket fouling. You will have to rework the loads, as the slicker bullets will be going slower when they exit the muzzle. On the up side, once a new load is developed, I have found velocities to be considerably higher than before, albeit at the expense of more powder. I have also found that swabbing a clean bore with colloidal graphite(LockEze) usually makes fouling a one shot proposition. These things were a Godsend after years of fighting a "ten shot" 220 Swift with a factory barrel. I also gave up on factory barrels on my hot rods (the lone exception is my CZ 527 in 204 Ruger).
As to the OP's original question, I have a .17 Remington with a Lilja Barrel that was fit and chambered by Benchmark. This gun will shoot quarter inch groups (or smaller) at 100 yards with Nosler VArmageddon ammo. If I had to rely on factory ammunition, I wouldn't even look at anything else.
OP, If you don't handload, try some of everything you can find. In my experience, the rifle will tell you what you need to buy in the future. The business of swabbing a clean bore with LockEze stands. It will drastically reduce the number of shots you need to get the gun to settle down.
Bill
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simon1
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I looked at .22-250 but the ammo was hit or miss to find, and fairly expensive. .223 is like 9mm...cheap and easy to find, and seems to have a good reputation on predators out to about 250 yards. The way I'm set up the farthest shots would be about 75 to 100 yards.
I use whatever rifle is in my hand when I see a coyote, heh. This sometimes results in a large mess (200gr Nosler Partition out of my 358 Win, lol), and sometimes just looks like it had a stroke and fell down (17 HMR). They always die just as fast either way.
But on the odd occasion when I go deliberately looking for em, I grab my 6.5 creedmoor and stuff it with my hand loads of the Sierra Varminter 85gr hollow points.
Against the law to use non expanding bullets up here in BC, but I probably wouldn't even if I could. If I'm shooting it, I want it dead, not injured.
But on the odd occasion when I go deliberately looking for em, I grab my 6.5 creedmoor and stuff it with my hand loads of the Sierra Varminter 85gr hollow points.
Against the law to use non expanding bullets up here in BC, but I probably wouldn't even if I could. If I'm shooting it, I want it dead, not injured.
Most of my varminting is done with a Tikka .17 HMR.
Its mostly the smaller type (red squirrels) and only to about 200 yards max, but its a laser out to there.
Its mostly the smaller type (red squirrels) and only to about 200 yards max, but its a laser out to there.
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simon1
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You gots dat right. And they drive semis also...with human cargo.
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simon1
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Finally got to cycle a few rounds through it to see if it would feed and eject. First cartridge the bolt wouldn't close all the way on the live round and it stuck in the chamber. A cleaning rod fixed that.
Loaded two rounds in the mag. (dang that mag spring is stiff) and the first round cycled and ejected okay, but the bolt didn't close all the way on the second round...apparently the extractor didn't grab the rim.
Loaded two more rounds and it worked fine. Apparently it needs broke in a bit. Surprise, surprise. Maybe I'll be able to fire it some tomorrow. Seems like it will do good.
Always check your equipment.
Ain't going hunting...going killin'.
Loaded two rounds in the mag. (dang that mag spring is stiff) and the first round cycled and ejected okay, but the bolt didn't close all the way on the second round...apparently the extractor didn't grab the rim.
Loaded two more rounds and it worked fine. Apparently it needs broke in a bit. Surprise, surprise. Maybe I'll be able to fire it some tomorrow. Seems like it will do good.
Always check your equipment.
Ain't going hunting...going killin'.
The older I get and the more I shoot, the more I tend to agree with this practice.
I really think as enthusiasts we tend to overdo care sometimes, and with that am starting to believe that much of the damage done to our throats/barrels is from our zealous cleaning practices.
Gentlemen, this is wisdom.
On one of my pilgrimages to Benchmark Barrels, Barry (one of the owners) said something along the line that far more barrels were 'worn out' by improper cleaning than were ever shot out. He took the time to explain to me how to treat one of their fine hand lapped barrels to get the maximum life out of it. Today, I use foaming bore cleaner and patches. I do have some nylon brushes, but they are only used as a last resort. The only bronze brushes I own are for my pistols.
With standard velocity cartridges at sane pressures, jacket fouling usually isn't much of an issue. Cartridges like the .223 and 30-06 (and its children) fall in to this category. It isn't till you get to the hot rods that things can get 'difficult'. Even then, a brush is a last resort. I would rather let carbon set and 'soak' for a few days (there are products that will essentially turn it to goo) than to try and hurry things along with a brush.
I have found that paying $1,000 or more for a custom made and fit barrel has the effect of impressing the trait of "careful" on me.
Bill
Great posts!
Contrary to what many believe, quality firearms work work when dirty. I put 60 rounds thru a Colt AR yesterday. Swabbed the barrel with a patch and REM Oil just to remove the loose powder and debris and put it back in the safe.
I shoot a lot at the 1000+ yard range where any bad habits or deviations are magnified 100 times, so consistency is paramount. Fouling back in barrel at $3.50 to $4.00 a round is painful when the steel doesn’t ring. A high quality barrel never needs more than a nylon brush with a chamber guide and a few patches with a quality solvent to clean up after several trips to the field.
In full disclosure - I do tend to do this. A while back I read a book on long range shooting written by a military sniper. He was adamant that a significant component of what damages your barrel is shooting through "cold carbon" that has hardened inside the barrel after shooting and sitting for a while. Almost akin to shooting though small rocks left in your barrel, which he stated can cause pitting.
Ive never put that though a scientific test, but just to be on the safe side I won't shoot one of my precision rifles without at least a patch to take out the loose powder and debris as you say. But even when fully cleaning said instruments I err on the side of less is more. I use a rod guide, a plastic coated rod, I don't let chemicals sit for too long, I only use nylon brushes, and my rule of thumb is the very least number of passes required to get the accuracy back.
But rifles like my Ruger 10/22? I haven't cleaned it in probably 1,000 rounds, and it just runs like a sewing machine ... an accurate sewing machine ...
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