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The Puzzling & Curious World of 1911

OkieStubble

Dirty Donuts are so Good.
As a brand new owner of my first 1911, I have spent a few days doing the typical new 1911 owner stuff. You know, like registering the warranty, searching for quality leather gear, holding, dry firing, loading and unloading snap caps and just generally getting to know the ole' girl. :)

Plenty of positives and a few negatives observed and learned. Mostly, the negatives I learned from just playing around with a empty, brand new 1911, is of the typical kinda negative stuff; like, a 1911 isn't a Glock for sure. It's definitely heavier then a Glock, even when the Glock is loaded with 13 or 15 rounds depending on the model; it still feels lighter than my new Springfield when it's loaded with 8 rounds.

A more concerning negative observed over the last couple of days, is when loading it down with snap caps (dummy rounds) and putting the Springfield thru it's motions. When I loaded the magazine full, just as the manual stated in order to top off the pistol with one in the chamber, I racked the slide from the full magazine, put the safety on and ejected the magazine in order to top it off with the last round.

However, when I did this, to my surprise, a loose round, came tumbling out of the magazine well of the gun. My first thought was, "did the round not chamber? Curious, I pulled back the slide, and ejected the round from the chamber. The only thing I can think of that is obviously happening, is the second round in the magazine, is somehow, also being stripped from the magazine by the bottom part of the slide, as the top round is going into the chamber? I dunno?

Surprisingly, even if I don't chamber a round, but just insert a full magazine into the magazine well, if I then eject the mag out again, without even moving the slide, the top round would already be about half way forward, out of the magazine. If I inserted again just like that and ejected it a second time, the top round will have worked it's way completly out of the magazine and fall out of the mag well again, following the mag as I am taking it out.

Puzzled, I of course searched thru the many 1911 online forums, including a Springfield forums, and I start reading about how finicky 1911's can be? I not only found plenty to read about my certain brand and model of 1911, but I found, read and could have read countless volumes of 1991 stories but it would have take like forever.

I read enough though, to give me the realization and bring some questions That I have here? Hoping the very knowledgeable gents here and those with 1911 experience, can provide me with some answers and clarity? The biggest question I have, is it true, all 1911's can be finicky? Do any of them come straight out of the box, working like they should? I mean, from everything I have read, Springfield Armory is a top notch manufacturer of the 1911? Shouldn't a $1000 pistol, come working straight from the box?
 

OkieStubble

Dirty Donuts are so Good.
Today, I took my Springfield to the range with the purpose of putting about 200 rounds thru it. Two Checkmate brand mags came with the pistol and I purchased a third magazine from Wilson Combat, because they have a great reputation and many great reviews on working in many different 1911's.

Haven't gotten much firearm practice in over the last year, so being a perishable skill, the lack thereof definitely showed on paper. And while my new pistol isn't the first 1911 i have ever shot, it is the first one I have shot in a very long time. Regardless of that, the very first two magazines shot thru the Springfield showed good accuracy.

Lower target first mag, upper target second mag. 10 yds.

thumbnail (2).jpg

Then it all went down hill from there.

1. I had the same problem with live rounds when loading as I did with the snap caps in my previous post. The first round would chamber, but the second round would also strip from the magazine and fall thru the magazine well.

2. The pistol began to stove pipe on every last round from the magazines. This included the Springfield Checkmates and the Wilson Combat Magazine as well.

3. The pistol began to lock up inbetween shots. It would fire the round in the chamber, cycle the slide, load and chamber the next round, but the hammer would also come forward with the slide, instead of staying cocked. In order to fix it's condition, I was forced to eject the magazine first and then eject the chambered round. I would reload the round from the chamber, put it back in the magazine and start all over. this began to happen, every few rounds.

4. The pistol then started to fail to go in to battery. It would eject the fired round, but the next round up would get caught and the slide would only go in a half way forward position. It was doing this on almost every single round fired the rest of my range stay.

5. Then, when it didn't do #4 above, the pistol began failing to extract the case from the fired round from the chamber. This happened every 4 rounds or so, when it wasn't doing #4 above the rest of my range stay.

6. Thru the course and range stay, it also had 4 or 5 double feeds. either when a second round from the mag tried to follow the first round when being chambered, or the extracted shell met the next round up, in the middle of the open receiver.

One thing very particular I noticed after shooting thru the course of 150 rounds. ( I had no patience left to shoot the 200 I brought ) I noticed the slide felt very loose and sloppy? I could feel this sloppy, loose feeling, when the slide came back in recoil and then also on the slide's return to battery. it's like I could feel the slide still wobble a but after it's return, if that makes any sense?

I don't know how many times I read other people in the 1911 forums last night, telling other people that 1911's need some sort of mysterious number between 100 and 500 rounds shot in a new 1911 so it can work itself in? I refuse to believe this as a myth because,

1. It's a $1000 pistol! Shouldn't they work straight from the box like a Glock?

2. Glocks are only $600 pistols!

3. I have heard a million times from people that 1911's are every bit as good and reliable as Glocks?

3. John Moses Browning was a genius?


Answers, thoughts, opinions and advice are very appreciated. :)
 
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simon1

Self Ignored by Vista
I am no expert on anything, much less a 1911, but my first thought on the stripped round was magazine. With three different mags. that may not be the case. Sounds unusual.

The stovepipes and other malfunctions "may" be related to the recoil spring, but you know about that. I just finally got a couple of boxes of hardball to finish breaking in the new Wolff recoil spring I put in awhile back. How and where are the fired brass ejecting to? Should be going about six feet or so away from you after going over your right shoulder.

Some people say that limp wristing one can cause malfunctions, but I used to work with a former Green Beret that did two tours in Vietnam and he had a Colt Gold cup that I shot very well. He was also on the Border Patrol pistol team. He said a properly functioning 1911 should be able to just hang in space and function well.

Sounds like it may need broke in some more. Were you running it "dry"? You might try running it "wet" for a bit...oil the slide rails with just one drop of gun oil per rail. Lock the slide back, hold it barrel down, then put a drop of oil on the back of each slide rail and let it run down, then work the slide a couple of times. And drop a small amount of oil on the metal on metal contact points, like on the trigger/sear mating area.

What ammo did you use?

Springfields have a very good reputation, and it looks like the accuracy is good.

My Colt has been know to be a bit finicky at times, a lot can be ammo related. If you want Glock reliability you may need to get a loosy goosy military model 1911 that rattles every time you pick it up and accuracy sucks. Really though, shoot it some more and let the parts mate up good.
 
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OkieStubble

Dirty Donuts are so Good.
I am no expert on anything, much less a 1911, but my first thought on the stripped round was magazine. With three different mags. that may not be the case. Sounds unusual.

you might not be an expert, but you have alot more experience and wisdom then I do with a 1911, so I am very appreciative of your effort my friend. :)

I thought mags at first, the night before the range also. But considering I purchased a Wilson Combat which gets rave reviews on all the 1911 forums, it can't be the mags?

The stovepipes and other malfunctions "may" be related to the recoil spring, but you know about that.

I'm thinking:

1. Sloppy slide on cycling and returning to battery: Recoil Spring. It does have a full length guide rod with double captured spring though?

2. Problems with holding live rounds to chamber? Adjustment and tuning of extractor spring?

3. Shell casing staying in chamber / failing to eject/ stove pipe last round? Ejector?

4. In need of a buffed feed ramp/chamber and a good reaming?


I just finally got a couple of boxes of hardball to finish breaking in the new Wolff recoil spring I put in awhile back. How and where are the fired brass ejecting to? Should be going about six feet or so away from you after going over your right shoulder.

I was at an indoor range with the wifey. There were lane dividers, so the brass was bouncing off of them everywhere. I would need to be outside to see where the brass is piling up.

Some people say that limp wristing one can cause malfunctions, but I used to work with a former Green Beret that did two tours in Vietnam and he had a Colt Gold cup that I shot very well. He was also on the Border Patrol pistol team. He said a properly functioning 1911 should be able to just hang in space and function well.

My wife accuses me of this and causing malfunctions all the time, but never with my wrist... ;) hotchacha!

Sounds like it may need broke in some more.

Can't be, it's a $1000 gun?


Were you running it "dry"? You might try running it "wet" for a bit...oil the slide rails with just one drop of gun oil per rail. Lock the slide back, hold it barrel down, then put a drop of oil on the back of each slide rail and let it run down, then work the slide a couple of times.

I took it apart before the range to do just this, but it was already dripping with oil. I even had to wipe some off the barrel and slide cuz I didn't want to get face splattered with gun oil when I started ripping off rounds. :)

What ammo did you use?

took 200 rounds 4 boxes of 50: 2 boxes of Federal brass, 1 box of Blazer brass, 1 box of Winchester white box. All hardball.
Shot everything but the Winchester.

Springfields have a very good reputation, and it looks like the accuracy is good.

The first two mags accuracy was good on the guns part, I could do better with more practice. However, The slide quickly became very loose and sloppy feeling and accuracy went down hill with it. I didn't even try for any kind of accuracy after the first 3 mags. I just finished shooting the last 130 rounds trying to "break the 1911 in" which seems almost not fair and utterly ridiculous in my opinion after spending a $1000 on it.

My Colt has been known to be a bit finicky at times, a lot can be ammo related. If you want Glock reliability you may need to get a loosy goosy military model 1911 that rattles every time you pick it up and accuracy sucks. Really though, shoot it some more and let the parts mate up good.

I would have settled for Sig 226 reliability, Walther PPQ reliability, Hell, after last night, I would have settled for Hi-Point reliability. Yep, I said it! ;)
 
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Whisky

ATF. I use all three.
Staff member
I’ve owned 3 Springfield 1911’s and they’ve all been 100% out of the box. From what your describing it sounds like you got a Lemon.
You’re right, for a $1000 gun you shouldn’t be having all these issues. Document what happened and send it back to Springfield, they’ll make it right.
 

OkieStubble

Dirty Donuts are so Good.
I’ve owned 3 Springfield 1911’s and they’ve all been 100% out of the box. From what your describing it sounds like you got a Lemon.
You’re right, for a $1000 gun you shouldn’t be having all these issues. Document what happened and send it back to Springfield, they’ll make it right.

I am seeing many stories in online 1911 forums that are matching my experiences. They all have sent theirs back to springfield to be corrected. were the 3 Springfields you owned, older models from years ago? Or newer models, recently made in recent times?

Because I am starting to have a theory on the shortcuts that many gun manufacturers are now taking in these modern times, is effecting the quality control and reliability of once proud brands from the past.

For example, When the Sig Sauer of yesteryears, made the excellent P226, P228 and many others, no one would ever question their quality, reliability or the brand itself. But the modern pistols of today's Sig Sauer? They have had many problems which have hurt their brand name when it comes to questions of quality and reliability.

I have heard the same rumblings about Kimber, Winchester, Marlin and many other firearms manufacturers. Why should the modern Springfield brand be any different when it comes to the newer 1911's?
 
Congratulations on a new 1911 my friend! I agree with @Whisky. For peace of mind, give it back for them to fix! I had a similar issue with my little lcp. One trip to Ruger and it was fixed. Never a hiccup since. All my worries about reliability have melted away with use. Springfield will make it right and you’ll feel better about it. A minor annoyance to get a reliable gun. I agree though, it’s silly to have to with a new $1000 pistol......
 
You shouldn't have that problem with both the Checkmate and Wilson magazines, which tells me something is amiss with the Springfield. For much more knowledge than what you may find here (no offense intended everyone), I might suggest wandering over to the 1911 forum (www.1911forum.com) and post your troubles on the Springfield sub-forum. Also, the most knowledgeable 1911 guy I've found on line is on the Defensive Carry forum (www.defensivecarry.com) in the Defensive Carry Guns subforum in The "Official" 1911 Thread. The gentleman goes by OD and is extremely knowledgeable on all things 1911, malfunctions, tips, etc. I would post your troubles on both those resources and you may find out it is something simple. I'm on both those forums under the same username as I am here at B&B, and they're both great forums with good people. If the end result is that they recommend sending it back to Springfield, their advice is gospel.

I relied heavily on both these resources when I made the move to the 1911 as my EDC and learned more there than anywhere else. Good luck, and I look forward to seeing over there!
 
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Whisky

ATF. I use all three.
Staff member
@OkieStubble , you may be right about modern QC issues especially with firearms selling as fast as they can be manufactured. The newest Springfield I own is my RO which I bought right after they were initially released 8-9yrs ago.

Is your RO is 9mm or 45. I think by your pics of it that it's a 45 but not 100%. Apparently the stripping of a second round when chambering a common issue with 9mm 1911's. I've never owned a 1911 in 9mm so I couldn't say of this is true or not. In a 45 it's usually a mag issue. Since your mags are new and of different brands I have no idea. Your extractor tension could be little loose or your extractor could be "clocking". It sounds like there are multiple issues and that "Bob" must have been asleep in the QC department when they let your pistol out the door. I've never believed the 500rnd break in theory and expect any pistol I own to run well right out of the box.

I agree with @camjr about OD and will add anything you can find from 1911Tuner. Tuner doesn't post on the forums much anymore but he used to be really active 1911forum and The High Road. Tuner's real name is John Travis and he has a whole series on 1911's at RangeHot.com.

I hope you get it straightened out and that this doesn't turn you off to the 1911 platform.
 

Ad Astra

The Instigator
Ay, chihuahua! 😕

They are mag-particular and finicky... 🤔 I will go no further.

Gun may have to back to mfg, or to a tuneup specialist or both!

Heavy, yes, and the bark/bite of my cousin's gorgeous and classic Colt Commander makes me glad I have Glock 30SF instead.

Sure sorry to hear of this and hope it gets worked out.


AA
 
a loose round, came tumbling out of the magazine well

I have a Sig 938 that is a shrunk down 1911. It does the same thing.

I’ve been reading on the SigTalk forum that the bar on the bottom of the slide that pushes the next round in needs to be polished. People who have polished it reported that the loose round behavior stopped.

I haven’t tried it yet as I just read about it. I’m unfamiliar with the Springfield, but I would almost bet it’s the same thing.
 
First of all, heavy isn’t a negative. For me, it engenders a stable platform. It’s the main reason I bought a Walther QS4 steel frame.

My Colt 1911 rail gun has not given me problems. My Kimber Ultra Carry HD did. stove pipe occasionally at first.

The rounds stripping from the magazines when ejected sounds like a smithing issue, sadly. I had to send my M&P Ported CORE back and that’s no fun.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
But Glocks are plastic and have no Soul! Just Kidding, every Glock that I’ve owned has been 100% reliable I just don’t shoot them well. I just can’t figure out the grip angle.

^^^This^^^

I never could shoot a Glock in any caliber with anything near the accuracy that comes when I shoot a 1911. I don't find an all steel 1911 too heavy to carry either IWB or OWB on a good belt. And yes, a 1911 has a soul. Of course, some souls take it upon themselves to haunt others by being finicky!
 
In short, I believe your gun has a problem it shouldn't. Sadly, it probably needs to be returned for repair.

I have bought new Colt and Springfield 1911's in the past 10 or so years. They ran right out of the box and were neither ammo nor mag sensitive.
 

OkieStubble

Dirty Donuts are so Good.
I appreciate all of the advice from everyone and the general consensus of sending it back to Springfield. I will be calling them this morning to ask them to mail me a return slip.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
I appreciate all of the advice from everyone and the general consensus of sending it back to Springfield. I will be calling them this morning to ask them to mail me a return slip.

Before you send it back...

Load up a few dummy rounds, if you can, and cycle the slide slowly while watching how they meet and ride the feed ramp. Virtually all the IPSC shooters at my club that started shooting a "new" 1911 had to modify the feed ramp to make them 100% reliable. Five minutes with a rat tail file may solve your problem but likely void the warranty at the same time.

My old Sistema Colt was absolutely reliable with any ammo I ever put in it. I could hold the gun in my right hand and rock the slide back and forth with my left it was so loose but it would still dump the mag in one ragged hole at 25 if I did my part. I dont personally like a brand new ultra tight 1911. They seem to work better, in my experience, after wearing in.
 

OkieStubble

Dirty Donuts are so Good.
Before you send it back...

Load up a few dummy rounds, if you can, and cycle the slide slowly while watching how they meet and ride the feed ramp. Virtually all the IPSC shooters at my club that started shooting a "new" 1911 had to modify the feed ramp to make them 100% reliable. Five minutes with a rat tail file may solve your problem but likely void the warranty at the same time.

My old Sistema Colt was absolutely reliable with any ammo I ever put in it. I could hold the gun in my right hand and rock the slide back and forth with my left it was so loose but it would still dump the mag in one ragged hole at 25 if I did my part. I dont personally like a brand new ultra tight 1911. They seem to work better, in my experience, after wearing in.

Yeah, I'll probably just take the stress free route and return it to Springfield and let them worry about. However, I have been trying to contact them by phone all morning and when you push 2 for customer service, you hear about 2 seconds of music, like they are putting you on hold and then the phone just goes quiet forever. It's like i can hear some type of low static, but it's like some kind of dead space where, you're not hung up on, but you ain't on hold and call waiting either.

Emailing the warranty department is next. :) Hopefully I will have a better first time experience with their customer service than I have with the pistol. :)
 
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