The all inclusive list of shaving myths

[TexLaw]

Hey, Phil, I got one to add to the list of prospects.

Traditional Wet Shavers are Obsessive about Traditional Wet Shaving

That ought to be a lead pipe cinch to debunk!

 

[luvmysuper]

Hey, Phil, I got one to add to the list of prospects.

Traditional Wet Shavers are Obsessive about Traditional Wet Shaving

That ought to be a lead pipe cinch to debunk!

Yep, easy peasy!

[emoji38]

 

[grim]

7. I need a stand for my shaving brush to dry properly.

False. .... http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/52285-Drying-question (post # 10 and Post #15 of significant interest).

Essentially there is no statistical difference in the drying of a brush whether it is hanging or standing on its end.

As I am new to this then a few questions

1. Define "dry properly". According to post#10 noted, all that did was measure every 24 hours. Is that the criteria for "properly"? In other words, is their importance to how fast the brush dries? If by hanging the brush dries in 10 hours and by standing it dries in 15 hours, over the life of the badge, does that matter? And if so, how much life does it take away from the brush?

In other words, taking a single data point at 24 hours tells me nothing about how fast the brush dries.

2. Why do companies tell you to hang it? Example "... hang it to dry in a shaving brush stand. This will allow the hairs to dry naturally and prevent water settling in the base of the badger hair bundle." How important is it for water to not get in the handle and just sit there?

3. How much of this is confirmation bias? Other than Post 10, which although is a start, is not complete, where is the scientific data to prove this one way or the other? Or does it not matter? After all, what does it matter if the brush is damp when you use it again? Its just going to get wet again.

 

[grim]

It appears I can't edit my post. Whats with that?

I forgot to add that I have noticed that during the late summer, early fall, my brush would not entirely dry within 24 hours. Now that the weather is turning colder and the indoor humidity getting lower, it is drying within 24 hours. I would have to check it every hour for 24 hours to see a pattern but indoor humidity obviously is involved here.

 

[TexLaw]

It appears I can't edit my post. Whats with that?

Your ability to edit goes away after 15 minutes.

 

[mike_the_kraken]

...where is the scientific data to prove this one way or the other?

This isn't that thread. What you'll find here is the voice of reason and experience. Perhaps... just go with it to see if you might learn something new? Might be surprised.

 

[Claudel Xerxes]

As I am new to this then a few questions

2. Why do companies tell you to hang it? Example "... hang it to dry in a shaving brush stand. This will allow the hairs to dry naturally and prevent water settling in the base of the badger hair bundle." How important is it for water to not get in the handle and just sit there?

3. How much of this is confirmation bias? Other than Post 10, which although is a start, is not complete, where is the scientific data to prove this one way or the other? Or does it not matter? After all, what does it matter if the brush is damp when you use it again? Its just going to get wet again.

Capillary action is the conformation bias. It's just physics. Manufacturers telling consumers to buy a brush stand is just another way for them to market products.

 

[captp]

as i am new to this then a few questions

1. Define "dry properly". According to post#10 noted, all that did was measure every 24 hours. Is that the criteria for "properly"? In other words, is their importance to how fast the brush dries? If by hanging the brush dries in 10 hours and by standing it dries in 15 hours, over the life of the badge, does that matter? And if so, how much life does it take away from the brush?
In other words, taking a single data point at 24 hours tells me nothing about how fast the brush dries.
i doubt it matters at all how long it takes to dry. I think most consider properly dry to be completely, totally dry, but i doubt it really makes a difference. Can't see that it takes any life away from the brush

2. Why do companies tell you to hang it? example "... Hang it to dry in a shaving brush stand. This will allow the hairs to dry naturally and prevent water settling in the base of the badger hair bundle." how important is it for water to not get in the handle and just sit there?
habit and that's just how they think it should be done. While i don't subscribe to the notion that a brush must dry completely between uses, i can see where actual standing water in the base of the knot could weaken even the best glue over time; don't ask me how much time, i have no idea

3. How much of this is confirmation bias? Other than post 10, which although is a start, is not complete, where is the scientific data to prove this one way or the other? Or does it not matter? After all, what does it matter if the brush is damp when you use it again? Its just going to get wet again.
there doesn't seem to be any real empirical data to prove this. What matters here, and what is being addressed here, is many people's perception that they must dry their brush between uses. Standard observational data is that our fathers and grandfathers most likely had only one brush, used it every day for 10-20 years, maybe more, didn't worry about completely drying, with no rotting of the knot.

 

[luvmysuper]

I think the data references the point that after 24 hours, the brushes over the 10 test points have lost water weight to various degrees. Even the same brush displays differences after 24 hours through the different test points. Looking at the Superior Super 20mm test 9 and test 10 data, it states a difference between the two of 2.0, this would indicate that in one test the brush was "drier" than it was in the other test. As one test point had more water weight after 24 hours than the other test point, one must believe that the brush was not "completely dry". The Rooney 3/1 Super shows a similar pattern with weight loss differences ranging from 5.0 to 8.0, again indicating that a loss of water weight in the range of 3.0. A brush that lost 5.0 in water weight is ostensively less "dry" than the same brush which lost 8.0 in water weight. If this is true then the brush after the 5.0 test was not as "dry" as that brush after the 8.0 test.

Recognizing that, and then noting that the loss in water weight is virtually identical between hanging or standing indicates no difference in the ability of the brush to lose water weight based on position or orientation.

That's all. Anyone who cares to may read and choose to believe whatever they choose to believe, these are just my own personal opinions based on my own personal observations, experience and reading.

 

[1holegrouper]

As I am new to this then a few questions

1. Define "dry properly". According to post#10 noted, all that did was measure every 24 hours. Is that the criteria for "properly"? In other words, is their importance to how fast the brush dries? If by hanging the brush dries in 10 hours and by standing it dries in 15 hours, over the life of the badge, does that matter? And if so, how much life does it take away from the brush?

In other words, taking a single data point at 24 hours tells me nothing about how fast the brush dries.

2. Why do companies tell you to hang it? Example "... hang it to dry in a shaving brush stand. This will allow the hairs to dry naturally and prevent water settling in the base of the badger hair bundle." How important is it for water to not get in the handle and just sit there?

3. How much of this is confirmation bias? Other than Post 10, which although is a start, is not complete, where is the scientific data to prove this one way or the other? Or does it not matter? After all, what does it matter if the brush is damp when you use it again? Its just going to get wet again.

All brushes, providing the end of the handle is flat, have built in stands. It makes absolutely no difference whether the brush is upside down or rightside up. Anyone who says different is marketing to you or has become succumbed to marketing. I have a couple of stands that I bought before I knew better. One I will give away to my son-in-law. The other I will use as it serves as a reminder to what brush I used last and nothing else.

 

[Tadweezy]

I so love all the money I'm saving buying cool stuff! I got some good cheap boar brushes I've saved money on by not only colleceting badger, some more boar brushes on the way, a nice super badger, and a soon to have homemade one of a kind from a dude in Italy (Panta Rei Silvertip). I'm saving money and treating myself to something unique all at once...and they are products that hold up while holding to my minimalist principles by only having three razors (one is a back up for my go to and the third for travel)!

I Also got 3 razors, 2 my boss gave me (Gillette superspeed and cadet oc) I bought the razorock CC.
My boss gave me 3 boar brushed. My girl got me 4 pucks.
I so far spent next to nothing on my addiction. Except for right now I just bought 200 pack of vintage polsilvers from Poland from shaving.ie I will get about 3.5 years worth of shaving with them blades so @17cents a blade I think I did good.

I totaled 50 dollars on my razor and blades I think I win vs cart shaving. I been very lucky people helped me obtaining my shave den!

 

[Raven Koenes]

I Also got 3 razors, 2 my boss gave me (Gillette superspeed and cadet oc) I bought the razorock CC.
My boss gave me 3 boar brushed. My girl got me 4 pucks.
I so far spent next to nothing on my addiction. Except for right now I just bought 200 pack of vintage polsilvers from Poland from shaving.ie I will get about 3.5 years worth of shaving with them blades so @17cents a blade I think I did good.

I totaled 50 dollars on my razor and blades I think I win vs cart shaving. I been very lucky people helped me obtaining my shave den!

Well done and have heard nothing but good things about the vintage polsilvers!!! I don't want to tell you what I've spent ...but I've saved money doing it!

 

[Tadweezy]

I had to get the Vintage Pol's From Poland I'm Polish. I just had too. I'm hoping I like them! if not I got 3.5 years worth to learn to like them. hahahaa

 

[grim]

What you'll find here is the voice of reason and experience. Perhaps... just go with it to see if you might learn something new? Might be surprised.

Reason and experience, without empirical data and proper analysis is nothing more than opinion, hearsay, urban legend, myth, ritual or whatever. Show me the data, which I see you started to do here http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...s-Soaking-for-more-than-30-seconds?highlight= That's reasonable. Good job.

i doubt it matters at all how long it takes to dry. I think most consider properly dry to be completely, totally dry, but i doubt it really makes a difference. Can't see that it takes any life away from the brush

This is important to know. If the length of time the brush is completely dry matters because:

1. the greater the time period it is dry lengthen its useful life, or
2. you do not want to start with a wet brush, then

it matters. If it doesn't matter, then none of this matters and its a pointless myth as in why would anyone care?

i can see where actual standing water in the base of the knot could weaken even the best glue over time; don't ask me how much time, i have no idea

This makes sense. If, in fact, the more the base of the brush is wet, water can seep into the glue, weaken the bond over time, and eventually cause hairs to fall out and the brush fall apart, then the time it takes to dry does matter, and could matter a great deal. If someone buys one of those $300/$400 brushes, and it falls apart in a few years because water settled into the glue, then I would consider that far more important than disposable $30 brushes. A study of this over time would be something good to know IF you cared about the money.

Standard observational data is that our fathers and grandfathers most likely had only one brush, used it every day for 10-20 years, maybe more, didn't worry about completely drying, with no rotting of the knot.

This falls back to my question of what's the point of completely drying the hairs? You are just going to get it wet again anyway. Why can't it be always wet and if its bad for it, then where are the studies to show how long you will shorten the life of a brush by keeping it permanently damp?

As to our grandfather's hardware, while probably true, it is not relevant. We have no idea if the glue used 100 years ago, 50 years ago, or today is identical. While it would make sense the bonding agents might be better, I might also guess that profit is the ultimate goal and the bonding agents weaker and cheaper. Just because its new does not mean its better. It might be true they simply made them better 50 years ago and it would not surprise me in the least.

I guess what I am getting at here is:

Who cares and why? What's the point? If the brush is going to get wet again then why care which way dries faster? And if it does matter, then where is the data to show it matters. But I expect that without extensive analysis, we won't see that. In the end, this only matters if the money matters to you. If you have disposable brushes, to buy another one. You buy one of those $400 One Blade Thaters, I would care greatly if the glue is going to fall apart of if doesn't matter, then who cares which way you leave it to dry?

That is my only point.

 

[Tadweezy]

I'm am 25, I used a electric razor to start with. my facial hair did not grow in more or faster. once I started DE shaving last year more on 3 day a week basis is have notice it grows in quicker now but still not fuller. I think the more you shave the quicker it will grow but will not fill in just what I noticed with my self. This was Point Number 6.

 

[Haggises]

Who cares and why? What's the point?

The only point being made was that it doesn't matter. Yet people will swear up and down than hanging or standing is correct.
Do what you like - it really doesn't matter. Anything else is over-thinking.

 

[BlackBard]

The only point being made was that it doesn't matter. Yet people will swear up and down than hanging or standing is correct.
Do what you like - it really doesn't matter. Anything else is over-thinking.

I thought that was the point of much of what "shaving fanatics" do. (Is the "proper" blade angle 29 or 30 degrees? Exactly how dry does a shaving brush have to be in order to be considered dry? When making lather, should I swerl the brush clockwise or counter clockwise?)

YMMV, of course.

 

[Haggises]

I thought that was the point of much of what "shaving fanatics" do. (Is the "proper" blade angle 29 or 30 degrees? Exactly how dry does a shaving brush have to be in order to be considered dry? When making lather, should I swerl the brush clockwise or counter clockwise?)

YMMV, of course.

There are differences between over-thinking and catering to our own OCD-like quirks

 

[DrColossus11]

All data points are useless anyhow as the sample size is not large enough.

 

[grim]

The only point being made was that it doesn't matter. Yet people will swear up and down than hanging or standing is correct.
Do what you like - it really doesn't matter. Anything else is over-thinking.

If in terms of performance of the brush hairs it doesn't matter, then agreed, its a silly argument.

If in terms of the glue falls apart and the life of your $400 brush is shortened by 30% then yes it does matter, unless you can afford to throw the money away.

All data points are useless anyhow as the sample size is not large enough.

Agreed. Anecdotal data, along with opinions, mean nothing. But at least with a few sample points, a trend can start to be seen. Obviously they more data the better.