Stainless DE Safety razor that shaves like a Muhle R41, not Muhle?

[sidpost]

How does the Italian Barber RazoRock Game Changer .84-P and .68-P compare to each other and a more modern Muhle R41 non-stainless/Titanium version? At $55, they sure look tempting compared to 3x the price for a stainless Muhle R41.

I see a lot of Razorock Lupo posts but, don't get the popularity. Is the just that the head is a little more trim to shave around someone's nose and on the top lip? Karve and others seem to get a lot of praise from fanboys too.

For a daily driver, I would like something slightly less aggressive than say a Muhle R41 (modern ~$55 variant) but more so than my Piccolo or the other common options I have like the EJ89. For a little background, I wanted to test my shaving after a camping trip or similar event where I don't shave every day so, I went ~4 days without shaving for some pretty good whiskers and used a brand new "Derby" and Edge gel for a test (I know not the best combo but, this was a test case today) after using my Fatip Piccolo for a daily driver for a significant period of time. Overall, really impressed with the single pass shave on my cheeks with the right being a DFS and the left (right-handed user here) which was a little off and could have used a second pass or better technique the first time. My lower lip and neck were consistent with my Piccolo results so, overall pretty impressive considering the heavy growth!

I am specifically looking for a full stainless steel razor with a generous handle similar to the Italian Barber "barber pole" as found on the Razorock razors. The Henson looked promising but, they confirmed it is not available in stainless steel and ~$250 for Ti or SS options just isn't going to happen when there are so many good options in the ~$50 price range from major manufacturers with great reputations! That being said, I'm not opposed to spending more if there is a real reason other than personal vanity or social media!

TIA,
Sid

 

[Deutschland]

the r41 is one of those razors that has a unique feel to it. you could buy a hundred de razors and still wouldn't get the same shave out of any of them, unless you buy one of the cheap chinese plagiats.

 

[StewB]

I have not tried the GC but I do have the stainless steel Lupo .95 (I have both the OC and SB baseplates). The Lupo is a nice razor that performs quite well IMO. In comparing it to the R41, it is slightly less efficient for me and is a little more picky about angle. (One of the things I like about the R41 is that it works well steep.)

As far as why it's popular: It's a copy of one of the Wolfman razors ("lupo" being Italian for "wolf") and is a nice design with a slim head and covered blade tabs. There's a recent thread here where someone is comparing a Lupo with one of the far more expensive Wolfmans (Wolfmen?) and the Lupo seems to acquit itself quite nicely.

In summary, the Lupo is a nice razor in its own right but is not really similar to the R41. Mühle does sell a stainless steel R41, so perhaps that's your best option.

 

[APBinNCA]

I don't have mine yet and it's a bit "older design," but the Ikon B1 OC is $65 at Maggard. I believe it's a clone of a New short comb. Otherwise I guess you could try on E or F Karve, but that carries the usual risk of picking the wrong plate the first time.

 

[Iridian]

You would probably need the .84 JAWS and still not be close to the R41 in aggression.
Razorock goes only up to higher end of medium aggression at max.

This said, I love almost every Razorock razor/plate, the BBS AS maybe excluded.

If you want to stay with Mühle or EJ, the Rocca and 3ONE6 are right between R89/DE89 and R41 in aggression.

Henson is super mild and super safe, it has an extremely locked in shaving angle and some love it for that, but not me. That's a matter of preference, I feel locked in when I can play around with the angle.

Blackbird and Timeless razors are also always a choice on the more expensive side, or Chinese Wolfman or Razorock clones (that's basically clones of clones).

Maybe someone will suggest some vintage razors.

The Alpha Shaving/Executive Shaving Outlaw is aggressive, not quite as much as the R41, but it is aggressive. But you might love the handles as much as I do, they are basically Razorock handles but a bit fancier.

 

[sidpost]

I have not tried the GC but I do have the stainless steel Lupo .95 (I have both the OC and SB baseplates). The Lupo is a nice razor that performs quite well IMO. In comparing it to the R41, it is slightly less efficient for me and is a little more picky about angle. (One of the things I like about the R41 is that it works well steep.)

I'm getting reacquainted with the R41 and in my initial test, it did exactly what I expected. With some more use and different blades, I could see it being a viable daily driver but, something a bit more forgiving is probably best for mornings in a hurry or after a late night.

As far as why it's popular: It's a copy of one of the Wolfman razors ("lupo" being Italian for "wolf") and is a nice design with a slim head and covered blade tabs. There's a recent thread here where someone is comparing a Lupo with one of the far more expensive Wolfmans (Wolfmen?) and the Lupo seems to acquit itself quite nicely.

That explains why I see it frequently mentioned. Thanks!

In summary, the Lupo is a nice razor in its own right but is not really similar to the R41. Mühle does sell a stainless steel R41, so perhaps that's your best option.

At ~$150 street, I have had some people suggest I look somewhere else for a better value and a better razor. That's what got me to start looking at other options. There seems to be a good diversity of opinion on this site so, I'm trying to review older threads but with COVID supply chain problems, product shortages in general, and inflation older threads don't really cover a lot of things in a timely way today IMHO so here I am.

 

[Deutschland]

@sidpost the 150 dollar ss version and the much more pricey titanium version of the r41, that is not in production anymore, were not made for people who are not sure about the razor. they were made for hardcore fans of it. if you are not sure that a more substantial version of a r41 is exactly what you crave for, don't go for it.

 

[sidpost]

@sidpost the 150 dollar ss version and the much more pricey titanium version of the r41, that is not in production anymore, were not made for people who are not sure about the razor. they were made for hardcore fans of it. if you are not sure that a more substantial version of a r41 is exactly what you crave for, don't go for it.

I almost bought a gently used R41 GS stainless model for $100 recently. Had that happened, I would be very happy. However, the original owner decided to keep it.

When I can buy three Razorock razors for the same money, it is tempting to give them a try. The SS and Ti R41's really seem to be for collectors and not daily users and are priced accordingly.

While the R41 may be a bit unique, it isn't the only good razor of this type out there so, I am trying to make a better informed decision before I start spending my money.

 

[Guido75]

Does it have to be modern razors only?

YMMV but in my opinion nothing shaves like a R41 except a R41. For what I can offer modern simulars would be a Fatip (actually the first R41 was a rebranded Fatip Piccolo).

Is vintage is also an option I would probably check out a NEW Improved or an Old Type. Similar shaves if you ask me.

Guido

 

[MIShaver]

I've owned an R41 a few different times and found it exceptionally nice with a bulldog handle (or probably any heavier handle), but pretty fair with the stock handle too. Nice balance. The extra heft helps me ease off the pressure and keep things smooth.

 

[ShavingPrimate]

If you want to stay with Mühle or EJ, the Rocca and 3ONE6 are right between R89/DE89 and R41 in aggression.

That would be my recommendation. I don't have the 3ONE6, but I do have the SS Rocca.

The Rocca is a $125 SS razor. It is easier to shave with than either a R89 or R41 type head.

Yet is is a smoother and closer shave than the R89. And, it shaves close to the R41.

If you have not shaved with the R41, you should at least give it a try? While I consider it efficient in terms of a close shave, I do not consider it an aggressive razor to shave with. While it does have an open comb head. The head is actually a hybrid design and not a full open comb.

There is some blade exposure and it does have blade feel, but that is not a bad thing at all. This gives you positive feedback all through your shave.

You always are aware of where the head us at and what it's doing. Because of this awareness, you are less likely to put extra pressure on the head and on your face because you can feel the blade against your face.

As has been previously mentioned, the R41 head is unique and is an excellent design, from an engineering standpoint..

Many aggressive razors have large gaps. The R41 head has a very small gap.

BLADE GAP: .023mm

This is coming from someone who is decidedly not an expert shaver, has zero particular DE shaving talent and has no absolutely no desire to tear up his face.

I use my $25 R41 Zanak head (from Amazon) with either my short EJ DE89 handle or the Rocca's SS handle.

You could just buy the head and order a SS handle for $15 and compromise at $40?

 

[Butch Waxx]

That would be my recommendation. I don't have the 3ONE6, but I do have the SS Rocca.

The Rocca is a $125 SS razor. It is easier to shave with than either a R89 or R41 type head.

Yet is is a smoother and closer shave than the R89. And, it shsves close to the R41.

If you have not shaved with the R41, you should at least give it a try? While I consider it efficient in terms of a close shave, I do not consider it an aggressive razor to shave with.

This is coming from someone who is decidedly not an expert shaver, has zero particular DE shaving talent and has no absolutely no desire to tear up his face.

I use my $25 R41 Zanak head (from Amazon) with either my short EJ DE89 handle or the Rocca's SS handle.

You could just buy the head and order a SS handle for $15 and compromise at $40?

@ShavingPrimate I concur with your assessment of the Rocca wholeheartedly.

 

[sidpost]

That would be my recommendation. I don't have the 3ONE6, but I do have the SS Rocca.

The Rocca is a $125 SS razor. It is easier to shave with than either a R89 or R41 type head.

Yet is is a smoother and closer shave than the R89. And, it shaves close to the R41.

If you have not shaved with the R41, you should at least give it a try? While I consider it efficient in terms of a close shave, I do not consider it an aggressive razor to shave with. While it does have an open comb head. The head is actually a hybrid design and not a full open comb.

There is some blade exposure and it does have blade feel, but that is not a bad thing at all. This gives you positive feedback all through your shave.

You always are aware of where the head us at and what it's doing. Because of this awareness, you are less likely to put extra pressure on the head and on your face because you can feel the blade against your face.

As has been previously mentioned, the R41 head is unique and is an excellent design, from an engineering standpoint..

Many aggressive razors have large gaps. The R41 head has a very small gap.

BLADE GAP: .023mm

This is coming from someone who is decidedly not an expert shaver, has zero particular DE shaving talent and has no absolutely no desire to tear up his face.

I use my $25 R41 Zanak head (from Amazon) with either my short EJ DE89 handle or the Rocca's SS handle.

You could just buy the head and order a SS handle for $15 and compromise at $40?

I have a more recent R41 I got off this forum and recently shaved a ~4-day forest off my face in basically one pass with a Derby () blade and plain ol' Edge gel! Worked much better than anything tried in similar circumstances previously. Around my nose, chin, and throat was very similar to my normal closed comb shave results on a daily basis. My cheeks were a single pass and if my technique was a little better, could have been BBS but, I'll take the DFS one-pass shave on any day of the week! This morning after ~18 hours, I can feel very light stubble on my cheeks that wouldn't be noticeable in church.

You make a good case for the Rocca! I'll give it a more detailed look.

 

[ShavingPrimate]

recently shaved a ~4-day forest off my face in basically one pass with a Derby () blade and plain ol' Edge gel! Worked much better than anything tried in similar circumstances previously.

I find that Edge and Gillette Gel work perfectly with DE razors. What I especially like is that I can rinse and have a clean face.

But, there is still plenty of "slick" that remains so I can do a clean-up pass.

Around my nose, chin, and throat was very similar to my normal closed comb shave results on a daily basis.

After the clean-up pass, I remove the blade and set it on the faucet while I rinse of the razor.

I then place the blade in the $14 Wilkinson TTO to do above and below my mustache. It just seems to work better for me, if I am using the R41 or any other open comb razor. Being that it is a TTO, it only adds seconds to the shave.

I sometimes hit another clean-up pass after I splash water on my face. The gel is really that good at leaving a slick layer of lubrication on my face up until the final rinse.

The benefit is that the lubricant layer it transparent whic allows me a completely clear view and its water soluble.

Glad you had such a great shave!

Edit: I never have a problem with the Derby, it is just not as long lasting as most others. Will be revisiting the Extra and the Premium for 1-Week shaves, this year.

 

[ClumsyBull]

Give the Monocero Husaria OC razor a go. I feel that it's as close to the R41 as one can get. Yet it is beautiful and enough and unique enough to justify the price.

 

[ewk]

If you are looking for stainless for weight, ignore this recommendation. The Timeless aluminum is an inexpensive razor with an efficiency that reminds me of the modern R41, but with better comfort.

 

[gdawg55]

I'm getting reacquainted with the R41 and in my initial test, it did exactly what I expected. With some more use and different blades, I could see it being a viable daily driver but, something a bit more forgiving is probably best for mornings in a hurry or after a late night.



That explains why I see it frequently mentioned. Thanks!



At ~$150 street, I have had some people suggest I look somewhere else for a better value and a better razor. That's what got me to start looking at other options. There seems to be a good diversity of opinion on this site so, I'm trying to review older threads but with COVID supply chain problems, product shortages in general, and inflation older threads don't really cover a lot of things in a timely way today IMHO so here I am.

The 95 Lupo should do the trick. Super close shaves but easier on the skin compared to the R41 and reasonably priced.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I'm a fan of the R41. It is not a beast. Why it is regarded as one escapes me.

I have the original and also the SS and also the London titanium. All are very good including the original. Yes, it has a head made of zamac, but it's very well made for a zamac head.

Not that it matters to the shave, but the rose gold handle is beautiful.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[JCarr]

Surprised that no one has mentioned the DSCosmetic Z0. It's a stainless steel R41 Chinese knockoff that costs less than $50. Take a look at it on AliExpress.

 

[sidpost]

I'm not a fan of direct copycat knock-offs which the DSCosmetic Z0 seems to be. I don't want to support IP theft which is what I see when I look at this one specifically.

That's part of the reason I'm looking at Razorock options. They seem to offer similar performance with a somewhat unique design and aesthetic.