Sometimes I see the Other Side’s Point

[simon1]

Pffft! I had to go back and look! Thought it was an AR - couldn't even tell under all the junk!

AA

I could tell what it was by the safety lever...I have one but it's naked. I did mistake it for a Tactical Timmy AR at first glance though.

I recently sold my AR and bought a Henry .22lr (plus a couple other 22's) with the proceeds. First lever rifle I've owned, looking forward to seeing the grin on grandson's face this summer.

Oh Good Lord...that's a Hallmark moment. Please post pictures of your Grandson with it. I've handled a Henry .22...the action runs like it is on ball bearings...smooth.

Love your avatar...kinda like the @OkieStubble layered approach to security.

 

[Lightcs1776]

The 7.62x39 round is ballistically very close to a .30-30; the 7.62 may be 100 fps or so slower pushing a 150 gr. projectile.
Hence, it would be a legit choice for deer, hog, or other similar game.
.223/5.56 is a tad lightweight for that purpose...so says collective opinion.
For Florida deer (aka Dogs with Horns), an AR would probably be fine. I’ll stay with my Henry lever for that though.

And you can get an AR in a heavier caliber, if need be.

Edit: however, I agree about the lack of wood. I love a nice walnut stock.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[machinisttx]

I am going to play this word semantics game with you and say again, yes, you can own an actual M4. I will break down my reasoning again as to why and how. The Military version of the M4 that is produced at the Colt military side of production and is the exact same place where the LE version of the M4 is produced which LE and Civilians can own. The ONLY DIFFERENCES, between these two rifles is ONLY the SELECT FIRE SWITCH and the AUTO SEAR. Which allows one to fire in 3 shot burst and full auto and the other only semi-auto. Everything else, and I do mean EVERYTHING! is exactly the same. The steel is the same, the chrome barrel is the same, the parkerizing is the same. The M4 roll mark is the same, The military quality and reliability is the same.

If you want to argue the word semantic and suggest that the only true definition of the roll mark "M4" is designated for the full auto rifle, then your argument and debate is with Colt. Because Colt differs with you, by putting the "M4" roll mark on both rifles. So apparently, the only one who thinks the semi version isn't an M4, is you.


Still friends?

For many years Cult produced the only non mil spec(oversize FCG pins) AR on the civilian market, and IIRC, none of their non government guns were compatible with a RDIAS due to how the internal "shelf" was milled in the FCG area. The former is no longer true, but I don't know about the latter. Also, the auto sear requires a third fcg pin hole in the lower receiver.

I'm not the only person who thinks "M4" refers to a 14.5" barreled, select fire carbine...it's a government/military designation listing specific criteria. Cult sued Bushmaster over the "m4" designation for trademark infringment and lost for that reason. Were the bushmasters also M4's? Cult also lost the government contract for M4 carbines in 2013. I would be greatly amused if the feds sued Cult for roll marking "M4" on any carbine manufactured after the date the contract ended.

I could roll mark "M4" onto my pieced together 6.8 SPC or my wife's carbine.....and neither would be an M4. It's like saying an apple is a plum. *shrug*

 

[OkieStubble]

For many years Cult produced the only non mil spec(oversize FCG pins) AR on the civilian market, and IIRC, none of their non government guns were compatible with a RDIAS due to how the internal "shelf" was milled in the FCG area. The former is no longer true, but I don't know about the latter. Also, the auto sear requires a third fcg pin hole in the lower receiver.

I'm not the only person who thinks "M4" refers to a 14.5" barreled, select fire carbine...it's a government/military designation listing specific criteria. Cult sued Bushmaster over the "m4" designation for trademark infringment and lost for that reason. Were the bushmasters also M4's? Cult also lost the government contract for M4 carbines in 2013. I would be greatly amused if the feds sued Cult for roll marking "M4" on any carbine manufactured after the date the contract ended.

I could roll mark "M4" onto my pieced together 6.8 SPC or my wife's carbine.....and neither would be an M4. It's like saying an apple is a plum. *shrug*

Excellent rebuttal @machinisttx . However, you and I both know that Colt has a civilian manufacturing side where they only produce civilian AR’s and they also have their military side of production where they produce their military contract M4’s. Colt decided to also produce a semi auto on their military side and designated them for LE, even though they are legal in many states for civilian purchase.

Colt does not designate or roll mark any of their rifles on the civilian side of production as M4 rifles, but they have the LE version as it is made under the same standard as their military grade M4.

I understand you are not the only person who thinks this, but just because you and other people have decided to think something doesn’t make it so or not so. Those are called opinions. But the fact remains, It is Colt that designates it an M4 and that is what makes it a reality regardless of what some have decided to take upon themselves to think.

There are many people who think a 4 dr Jeep that is automatic and runs on unleaded gas isn’t a Jeep unless it runs on diesel has a manual clutch and only two doors. But guess what? Jeep still designates their 4door, gas engines as Jeeps. And there is a Jeep roll mark on every hood regardless what others have decided to think. A real, genuine military grade M4 is a real M4 because of it’s quality and because it was built on the same military production lines with the same quality. Being semi auto and 2 inches of barrel won’t and can’t change that. Colt realizes this and designates it with an M4 roll mark.

And lol’d @ “Cult”.

 

[Acmemfg]

Smith & Wesson. NOT an M4.
5R rifled barrel...very accurate. Mostly Magpul furniture. Vortex Strikefire II optics.
Ain’t a Colt in anyway shape or form. Not Mil Spec...can’t hook up a grenade launcher on the barrel (note absence of groove).
Bet mine shoots as well as most.
It remains the most un-used weapon I own.

 

[OkieStubble]

Ain’t a Colt in anyway shape or form. Not Mil Spec...can’t hook up a grenade launcher on the barrel (note absence of groove).
Bet mine shoots as well as most.
It remains the most un-used weapon I own.

I'm perplexed. When you old school guys talk about Colt revolvers and Colt 1911's nothing else compares, but if it's a Colt AR? Everything else compares?

 

[Acmemfg]

My 1911s are both Rugers.
That rampant pony only carries so much weight.

 

[OkieStubble]

My 1911s are both Rugers.
That rampant pony only carries so much weight.

And I love those Ruger's of yours.

 

[TheGrimWeeper]

View attachment 972337
Maybe there is a practical application for something like this other than a prop for Battlestar Galactica. I for one don’t see whatever it might be.

All that swag and he gets the world's smallest AK magazine. Never going to get into the 40 watt range with that.

 

[Toothpick]

Here’s my basic AR-15. IDK why I don’t have the front sights on it in this photo. Only thing I added was the iron sights by Magpul and the Manticore Arms Transformer Rail. I would like to add a light, forward grip, and better sights. That’s it.
Maybe a shoulder strap but I’m meh on that.

 

[KW Driver]

A real, genuine military grade M4 is a real M4 because of it’s quality and because it was built on the same military production lines with the same quality. Being semi auto and 2 inches of barrel won’t and can’t change that. Colt realizes this and designates it with an M4 roll mark.

Remember, a mil contract just means the lowest bidder proffering a build to minimum acceptable specs being accepted.

Barretta’s M9s weren’t as good or durable as their 92F, because they were made to milspec.

 

[machinisttx]

A good rifle deserves a functional sling. The sling on my 6.8 is Blue Force Gear IIRC. Lots easier to adjust than the 1907 leather sling on my M1A.

 

[machinisttx]

Remember, a mil contract just means the lowest bidder proffering a build to minimum acceptable specs being accepted.

Barretta’s M9s weren’t as good or durable as their 92F, because they were made to milspec.

Exactly.

 

[OkieStubble]

Exactly.

And yet they are still considered the Gold Standard.

 

[Brian C.]

That's only a baby...he's just getting started.

Tactical Timmy

Tennessee law allows open carry, no real restrictions on knives, no purchase waiting or other tedious restrictions.

With a permit. Gov. Lee needs to get on with his "Constitutional Carry" promise. It's past time.

Since we're showing pictures:
Mine

The wifes:

 

[Acmemfg]

Just for clarification:
Tennessee has no real restrictions pertaining to knife ownership or possession. With or without a permit.
Firearm possession....yes.
But as far as “Constitutional Carry” for many it might be a moot issue.
Seeing as how Tennessee borders on 8 other states, it’s most common to find oneself in another jurisdiction (or 2 or 3) very often. I can be in TN, GA, and NC within 10 minutes.
Constitutional carry (last I heard) carries no real reciprocal weight with other states. So although a nice thing I guess, I’ll stick with the permit route. Actually I have a TN Lifetime permit anyway. I hope Gov. Lee spends more time focusing on the “decriminalization”
of carrying firearms in “posted” locations, much like GA has.

 

[Brian C.]

Just for clarification:
Tennessee has no real restrictions pertaining to knife ownership or possession. With or without a permit.
Firearm possession....yes.
But as far as “Constitutional Carry” for many it might be a moot issue.
Seeing as how Tennessee borders on 8 other states, it’s most common to find oneself in another jurisdiction (or 2 or 3) very often. I can be in TN, GA, and NC within 10 minutes.
Constitutional carry (last I heard) carries no real reciprocal weight with other states. So although a nice thing I guess, I’ll stick with the permit route. Actually I have a TN Lifetime permit anyway. I hope Gov. Lee spends more time focusing on the “decriminalization”
of carrying firearms in “posted” locations, much like GA has.

I couldn’t agree more. And yes, I will continue the permit route myself due to reciprocity with other states.


AoM; B.O.S.S.;Knight of the Veg Table;MFR2019

 

[KW Driver]

Gunna be fun to see how constitutional carry states interact with the others if national reciprocity ever gets passed. As well as previously non-reciprocity licensed states.

Okie, the gold standard? For whom? According to whom? M4 is good enough for the mil at large, but not all mil units run M4s. Some have better iterations of the design, and other designs in their arms rooms. So do many police forces.

 

[machinisttx]

And yet they are still considered the Gold Standard.

Not by me, or many others...and their multiple bankruptcies are testament to that.

 

[OkieStubble]

Gunna be fun to see how constitutional carry states interact with the others if national reciprocity ever gets passed. As well as previously non-reciprocity licensed states.

Okie, the gold standard? For whom? According to whom? M4 is good enough for the mil at large, but not all mil units run M4s. Some have better iterations of the design, and other designs in their arms rooms. So do many police forces.

Hey, Give me a Noveske any day. I thought we were talking production line AR's?