Semogue 1800 vs 1305

[shm]

You guys really trick my curiosity.

After the mentioning of the 1250, I just checked the hair type on that, and it is Best 90% tops in comparison to the 1305's Premium 90% tops, that of course called for a comparison


So today's comparison (which really surprised me):

Soaked the brushes while showering and then lathered up with Culmak shaving soap (actually a really nice soap).

First pass: I really couldn't tell the difference between them, backbone was equal and neither brush splayed much.

Second pass: The 1305 started to splay and felt a little more soft, whereas the 1250 kept its backbone and felt firm.

Third pass: I didn't have to close my eyes for this one, I could see the difference in the splay of the two brushes. The 1305 felt softer in the tips; not much, but enough to feel the difference.

Fourth pass: The 1250 was almost out of lather and still felt quite firm, the 1305 had just enough lather to a thin coat, but I opted to swirl both brushes a couple of times on the puck to get a nice lather for the ATG pass. The 1305 was definitely feeling softer here, more splay and less backbone, but really nice


I must say I was surprised of the difference in the Best and Premium hairs. I had not anticipated so noticeable a difference in especially the backbone.
This just show, once again, that if two brushes are to be compared, a head-to-head is the way to go, to get all the small nuances and differences into the light - IMO

Now, this leaves one question open (at least to me): How does the 1250 and 1800 compare?
I'll find out tomorrow, otherwise I will be sleepless until I have the answer

 

[oversaturn]

That will be interesting!
I do not own a 1250 (yet!), so I will be looking forward to you comparison, Søren!

 

[Balj86]

Good Morning! Can't wait to hear your comparison. Also the 1250 pretty much looks like an SOC with a smaller knot. I know it isn't the same knot but it surely almost looks alike. Have you done a comparison with the SOC and 1250 before Soren?

 

[shm]

Good Morning! Can't wait to hear your comparison. Also the 1250 pretty much looks like an SOC with a smaller knot. I know it isn't the same knot but it surely almost looks alike. Have you done a comparison with the SOC and 1250 before Soren?

No I haven't, and just for the fun of it, I might have to do it, but I will be almost certain of the outcome (although I have been wrong before );
A little less backbone than the 1250, my guess will be that the backbone will compare to the 1305 maybe even a little less, as the loft is 2 mm higher in the SOC and I'm not sure the larger knot will make up for it.
The SOC will have softer tips no doubt about it, as it has the Special Grade Boar quality hair - Oh, how sweet the SOC is

 

[shm]

Alrighty then - 1250 against 1800 today


Soaked the brushes while showering and then lathered up with T&H Luxury shaving soap.

First pass: Once more I couldn't tell the difference between them, backbone was equal and neither brush splayed much.
I do find it strange that I can't tell the difference in the first pass, they have after all been soaked good, but it looks like the soap is helping/contributing in the softening of the bristles.

Second pass: The 1250 started to splay a little, whereas the 1800 felt quite firm. The tips of the 1800 felt slightly softer than the 1250.
Now, this could very well be down to my loading, but the 1250 ran out of suitable lather and I had to go back to the puck to load it again. But somehow, despite being soaked together, the 1250 looked more wet than the 1800.

Third pass: I closed my eyes for this one, as I think my anticipation for the brushes performance inferred with how they actually performed.
One brush did feel more prickly than the other, and the prickly brush also felt just a tad softer in the backbone, and taking the experience from the previous pass, my guess was the 1250 - and it was.

Fourth pass: By just watching the two brushes I (maybe just imagination?) believe I could see some more splay from the 1250, but it wasn't something I could feel when applying the lather.
I must say I am surprised of how firm the 1800 stays during the shave.

And just to sum it up table-style (sorry but I just love such things )

1 means that particular brush has most of that character (if it doesn't make sense, let me know)

	Backbone	Splay	Prickliness
Semogue 1250	2	2	1
Semogue 1305	3	1	3
Semogue 1800	1	3	2

Given the Williams International Challenge thread in the soap section, I think I will give the 1800 a chance to shine with the Williams Mug Soap, as more people has said the Williams takes a firm brush to work well, so the 1800 should be perfect for that.

 

[Balj86]

Excellent Soren! Could you imagine the 1800 bristles in a SOC handle. I wish we could make custom variations with vintage scent (would be expensive prolly). So that would be a dream a 24mm knot that are the same bristles from the 1800 in a SOC would be oh so awesome! Soren if its alright with you, can make a comparison with 1250 and SOC please? I thoroughly enjoy write ups! BTW I have visited your site and you should have a blog including all of your entries for the brush comparisons. The reason why I say that is b/c you have the precise measurements and opinions for each of these brushes.

 

[shm]

I have actually asked Vintage Scent in another matter, and the answer was that Semogue does not reknot brushes, sell loose knots or make custom brushes.
Too bad, but I can fully understand. It does take a lot of time if you have to customize every third brush or so.

The 1250 against the SOC! Sure I can do that, it will however be later in the week, maybe not until the weekend, but I will put it on my to-do list
I actually have a lot of fun doing this - maybe too much, but who cares I'm not hurting anybody

I have thought of making a section on my web-page for comparisons, maybe I should give it more thorough thought and do something about it

 

[oversaturn]

Once again, excellent write-up and comparison, Søren!
Soon I will be taking the Williams International Challenge also, and I think that the 1800 will be perfect to the task. That brush just shines with hard soaps.

 

[shanman]

The 1800, 2010 custom, 1460, and the 2011 Bristle 1 would all great Williams candidates.

 

[shm]

As per request the Semogue 1250 against the Semogue Owners Club


Soaked the brushes while showering and then lathered up with Williams Mug soap.

First pass: Not much difference between them, but the SOC felt like having a bit more backbone. Neither brush splayed much in this pass.

Second pass: Both brushes started to splay a little. The tips felt equally prickly (it wasn't much, but yet noticeable), this did surprise me, as I had expected the SOC to have softer tips.

Third pass: The SOC splayed a bit more than the 1250, but I regard that as natural since the knot is larger and the loft higher. Again I couldn't tell a difference in the tips, just a slight prickliness from both.
Using painting motions I couldn't tell the two brushes apart, the backbone felt identical.

Fourth pass: Visually it is clear that the SOC covers a larger area while applying the lather, but there is still too little of a difference to be able to tell these two brushes apart just from the feel, and I find it a bit difficult to comprehend the fact that the brushes are so equal in performance and feel, as I had a strong presumption in my head that the SOC should be more soft tipped. I am also a little surprised of the SOC's backbone, despite having a larger knot I still anticipated it to be a little less stiff than the 1250 because of the higher loft - but there you go
It is really fun when things aren't like imagined.

 

[mftoms59]

shm, thanks for taking the time to complete those comparisons. As an owner of the 1250, I'm still surprised to find the brush holds up to the SOC, 1800 and 1305 which seem to be the more popular choices. I happen to love my 1250 and sold my 620 & 1800 because they were hardly used, I just ordered the 2000 to compliment the 1250. Though most claim the 2000 is floppy, I plan on setting the knot in a custom Milk Churn Style Handle, lowering the loft to ~53-55mm.

 

[Banjoman]

All I can offer is that I love my 1305. Has never shed and it's a nice combo of soft and slightly scritchy.

 

[Mick]

I miss the table including the SOC in with the other 3 you "tabled"

This is a very interesting thread and one I will be watching as I am sure there will be others that you want to rate and "table-ize"

I only have 1 Semogue brush and have been very happy with it. But now I am not sure if my "happiness" real or just imagined

 

[shm]

I miss the table including the SOC in with the other 3 you "tabled"

This is a very interesting thread and one I will be watching as I am sure there will be others that you want to rate and "table-ize"

I only have 1 Semogue brush and have been very happy with it. But now I am not sure if my "happiness" real or just imagined

The SOC would fit in with the 1250 in the table. I think they are so evenly matched that during daily use you wouldn't be able to tell the difference apart from the size.

And the one brush thing. It is like the saying: "A man with one clock know what time it is, a man with two can't be sure." - this transfers pretty good to brushes as well

 

[Balj86]

Thanks again Soren for an awesome review yet again. I always thought the 1250 looked like a mini SOC from the looks of it. Thats i thought a review would nail it on point like you did. This will truly be a great thread for any new boar users who are confused with the models!

 

[kentclark]

Søren and all, thank you for this fine discussion comparing these fine Semogues. Similarly, I think the compactness of the 620 (like the 1800 you are comparing to the 1305 and others) is why I favor it slightly over the 610, though I really enjoy them both.

 

[Sean Mac]

Does Semogue make a brush with an acrylic handle that has the knot characteristics of the 1800?

 

[Mick]

the one brush thing. It is like the saying: "A man with one clock know what time it is, a man with two can't be sure." - this transfers pretty good to brushes as well

I only have 1 Semogue brush and have been very happy with it. But now I am not sure if my "happiness" real or just imagined

Well I guess I know what time it is..... It's 1305 time once again

Thanks for taking the time and doing a head to head comparison of these brushes

 

[shm]

Does Semogue make a brush with an acrylic handle that has the knot characteristics of the 1800?

No, at least they don't have an acrylic handle with that particular knot, it only exist in the 1800.

If you are looking for the soft tips, you might choose the 830, which has 10% more hair than the 1305, and thus is a more firm brush but with the soft tips.
If you are looking for the backbone, the 610 may be a choice, it has a knot similar to the 1250 but with a lower loft and thus it feels more stiff.
Or the 620...?


This is the current production line (to my knowledge)

Brush	Handle	Knot
2000	Wood, natural	Super 70% tops
610	Acrylic	Best 90% tops
820	Acrylic	Best 90% tops
1250	Wood, natural	Best 90% tops
1460	Wood, painted	Best 90% tops
1470	Wood, painted	Best 90% tops
2030B	Metal	Best 90% tops
620	Acrylic	Extra 75% tops
1438	Wood, painted	Extra 75% tops
1520	Wood, painted	Extra 75% tops
830	Acrylic	Premium 90% tops
1305	Wood, painted	Premium 90% tops
1800	Wood, natural	Extra 75% tops + Premium 90% tops
Semogue Owners Club	Wood, natural	Special Grade Boar

.

 

[Sean Mac]

Thanks for the chart. Putting all of the Semogue lineup together like that is really helpful. I was going to start a new thread to ask my question, but I'll try just asking it here.

I've been using a Rooney 3/1 Super exclusively for about the last two years. I'm a face latherer, and this brush has served me well. However, it does a better job with creams than it does with soaps. Therefore, I'm looking to get a boar brush that will primarily be my soap brush. I'm drawn to the acrylic handle because I typically put my brush in a sink with water while I'm in the shower. After the shower I grab my brush and get to work.

The vendor that I am looking to make a purchase from only offers an acrylic Semogue in 620 and 830. I'm really torn. The 620 seems to offer more scrubbing power than the 830, which seems like a good thing. However, I've grown rather attached to the softness of my Rooney. For this reason, the 830 is attractive. However, I'm concerned that the 830 will, in time, bloom and soften and become too similar to my Rooney.

I would love to hear comments from people who have used both the 620 and 830 -- which do you prefer for face lathering hard soaps? why?

Thanks