Replating/Collector Value Debate

[Ace McCool]

I read through some old threads, but I wanted to get peoples opinions on replating from a collector/value standpoint.

There are many razors sold on ebay that are in mint condition, and could very well be replated, but they sell for very high prices anyway. It seems that collectors do not care if there has been replating work done, and a mint condition razor sells for top dollar regardless.

Is it possible to tell if replating work has been done? If not, then there should be no difference in value as it is impossible to know.

Thoughts?

 

[bakerbarber]

If you think you cannot tell the difference than you have not been collecting long enough to know yet.

True original condition is worth more than refinished given the same quality.

Replated razors look too perfect and lack crispness and details. The sharpness of the knurling, the uniformity of the age. Even the accessories can be a giveaway. I'd be suspect of a flawless razor with messed up case and accessories.

The buyer assigns the value in the end. For we know not what motivates the buyer to bid.

If you collect replates then that's fine. Most collectors not using their collection, I believe look for original condition.

 

[ras120]

+1 to bakerbarber's comment. I only have original pieces in my collection. The one exception is a Schick Type D Injector that is nickel plated, which no one will mistake for original plating because original plating was (is) gold.

I don't care to collect replated razors.

After seeing enough razors, a replate will stick out like the proverbial sore thumb.

 

[Ace McCool]

I don't think it is a case of not collecting long enough, it's a case of never seeing a replate in real life. I haven't looked at enough replate photos to tell the difference, but would you be able to tell in an ebay auction from average quality photos if a razor was replated?

 

[alex2363]

The replated razor goes down in price and loses it value instantly and significantly. Some sellers on Ebay can decieve you into thinking that it is not a replate though...Buyer beware.

 

[Go West Young Man]

Find a buyer who values perfection and a replated razor goes up in value. Find a buyer who values authenticity and an untouched razor goes up in value. Try to sell the wrong razor to the wrong buyer and that's when the price goes down.

 

[bakerbarber]

I don't think it is a case of not collecting long enough, it's a case of never seeing a replate in real life. I haven't looked at enough replate photos to tell the difference, but would you be able to tell in an ebay auction from average quality photos if a razor was replated?

I understand what you're saying.

Seeing pictures and having something in front of you is very different.

From average photos I still think there are things you can look for to tell. Especially if it's something relatively rare or valuable. For a Superspeed for instance. If the small ridges along the safety bar are filled in or buffed smooth, but are the same glamorous finish as the rest of the razor- it might be a replate. For an adjustable such as a Fatboy. If the black band under the adjuster is not black, if the handle looks to be too smooth or has variations in the depth and sharpness of the knurling, yet it is overall the same glamorous finish- it might be a replate. For a three piece razor such as a Old Type. If it is head to toe totally even and glamorous without flaw but has a shoddy old case and no period original blades- it might be a replate. Emphasis on might be.

There are perfectly good examples of original finish razors that turn up every day.

The knurling is a tell tale sign though. Buffing and polishing will take down the high points a bit and new plating will fill in the valleys and grooves giving the odd appearance of dull or shallow knurling. Plating tends to be thicker around the fittings and connections where buffing is difficult. Original finish razors can and do have a mirror finish if they are mint or near mint. They will not though, be flawless. A replate will have a mirror finish with no micro dings or surface irregularities. Razors were pieced together and the silo doors were not buffed and polished to a smooth as glass finish at the factory. Only the English models have a near perfectly smooth finish to begin with. A NOS Slim or Superspeed out of the package will appear slightly matte finished. A buff and polish to the original finish will bring out a shine and smooth out some of the imperfections, but a replate will look too good to be true.

Gold plated razors, if vintage and original, usually have some bit of lacquer remaining. With age it turns orange to red. This is over the gold. Sometimes this lacquer will appear to have a rainbow effect like an oil slick on water. A replate will be uniform all over and show no lacquer.

Look at the pictures on this site of replated razors. Look at the knurling. Look at the spots where there would normally be patent numbers, date codes, or other words or numbers engraved or stamped. When a razor is replated these areas will be buffed smooth somewhat and filled in by the new plating.

Sometimes with open combs the corners of the teeth are rounded. Uneven buffing would be apparent too under the baseplate of TTO razors or in other areas where there are tight spots and the original finish cannot easily be smoothed out before being refinished.

I combined an image of a replated ball end Old Type with the image from the same model from the Wiki. Look at the knurling and the area right above the ball end of the handle. The replate looks awesome and I'd be happy to own it and shave with it. To my eye it is obviously not original though. I've seen enough Old Types and held them in my hand to know what they look like as original and as worn out. You won't always be able to see side by side like this, but looking at the Wiki here or looking at Mr. Razor's website will give you a good idea of the fine details and what an original should look like.

 

[Mojo88]

I have one replated razor in my collection and you can tell in no uncertain terms that it has been replated. The replated razor looks very different from vintage razors with respect to the plating thickness. I think the razor looks great but in 50 years you willl still know it was a replate. I used to think that CFM replated and unless he uses a very different method those razors are vintage. They are pricey, but from what I can tell they are the legimate.

 

[bakerbarber]

I combined the images and took out the color. It's a poor job on my part of jamming them together, but I tried to hit it down the middle and even.

The lighting and background were different, but I think you can see the difference in the knurling and the head to toe consistent candy coated finish of the replate.

Anyone selling a replated razor should be clearly stating it as such though. I have a few and some are great. Some are not so great. The ones from B&B members are fantastic. There are some razors that just plain look better and shave smoother after a fresh plating. Some end up junked if the person who did the work didn't know what they were doing. They can end up ceasing up an adjustable, altering the blade angle, buffing out details, or just all together doing something wrong.

 

[mr-razor]

If you think you cannot tell the difference than you have not been collecting long enough to know yet.

True original condition is worth more than refinished given the same quality.

Replated razors look too perfect and lack crispness and details. The sharpness of the knurling, the uniformity of the age. Even the accessories can be a giveaway. I'd be suspect of a flawless razor with messed up case and accessories.

The buyer assigns the value in the end. For we know not what motivates the buyer to bid.

If you collect replates then that's fine. Most collectors not using their collection, I believe look for original condition.

+1
I´m not interested on replated razors. I want the original - maybe I must longer wait to see one in great (not replated) condition.

 

[crfcom]

I have a mint '59 Fatboy all original and with the full 1/4 turn of lock-down and a '73 slim in the same condition. I'm planning on re-plating both in nickel and re-enameling the numbers. In my mind, they will be mint+. To me, the finish on each razor will be what Gillette originally intended, but was unable to attain employing mass production plating technology. I'm not really concerned with what someone else thinks, but I have to say, I've seen a couple of re-finished Fatboys go on Flea-Bay for over a hundred dollars. I saw one go for almost $150, that looked like it could have been a re-plate, though the seller didn't say. There were no questions posted about the finish, which gave me the impression that no one was much worried about it. Of course, that's Flea-Bay. I can understand how a serious collector would feel differently, but most of the market are not serious collectors. I guess everyone see's things from a different place.

 

[Copierguy]

I have a mint '59 Fatboy all original and with the full 1/4 turn of lock-down and a '73 slim in the same condition. I'm planning on re-plating both in nickel and re-enameling the numbers. In my mind, they will be mint+. To me, the finish on each razor will be what Gillette originally intended, but was unable to attain employing mass production plating technology. I'm not really concerned with what someone else thinks, but I have to say, I've seen a couple of re-finished Fatboys go on Flea-Bay for over a hundred dollars. I saw one go for almost $150, that looked like it could have been a re-plate, though the seller didn't say. There were no questions posted about the finish, which gave me the impression that no one was much worried about it. Of course, that's Flea-Bay. I can understand how a serious collector would feel differently, but most of the market are not serious collectors. I guess everyone see's things from a different place.

Questions asked are not always posted by the sellers. But you are right, buyers spend what they will for their desires.

 

[Dusty1]

Good thread, thanks for sharing guys.

 

[Ace McCool]

Some great discussion here. Thanks for the info everyone, especially bakerbarber - that photo comparison is great. With reference to cedarfurnitureman, it appears then he does not do replating then, although I don't know how his gold razors can be in such mint condition, as the original plating is so thin on them.

 

[Krona Kruiser]

Great thread! Agree on all comments. The purpose of replating to me is to breath new life to an old dependable tool. It's for the satisfaction of the user. For example, I love NEW's but just can't stand shaving with a brassed one though it still shaves the same.
BTW, great pics BakerBarber.

 

[Azarius]

I have re-plates because I like the look of a clean, shiny razor, compared to a worn razor, or one that has the finish missing or in bade shape.

I like to shave with what I own, I am not a collector. So I will purchase a user grade for $8 to $20 and have it re-plated. I will have spent less on the total cost than most modern razors, and have something that will give me decades of life, hell lets be honest, this razor will outlast me that is for sure.

These are just a few from Dave (Krona Kruiser).

This old type was saved from certain death, as it had been poorly re-plated by a previous owner in Chrome and had very bad chipping and peeling.

This NDC Superspeed was heavily brassed, had water stains that could not be buffed out, now it looks factory fresh.

 

[Doubledgeislife]

The person who did these replates is obviously quite talented. The quality of the photos also show some talent. This is making me drool. I am really wanting to get my razors replated since seeing these photos.

 

[Ace McCool]

Very good replate job indeed. The Superpseed almost looks original to me.

 

[Amir]

I am also drawn to women who don't (need/want to) wear makeup!

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[crfcom]

I am also drawn to women who don't (need/want to) wear makeup!

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I am drawn to women.