Placement of Fingers on Shank

[Alum of Potash]

Suffice it to say that I've recently become confused about where to place the thumb and forefinger on the shank when stropping. Let's just suppose that some people would grip the shank from top and bottom (i.e., where the jimps are), necessitating a "pencil roll" of the spine between passes, while others would grip the shank from side to side, necessitating a partial (but not complete) turn of the wrist between passes. Which method do you prefer to use? and if one method is better than the other, at least in theory, why is this?

Attached is a depiction of a straight-razor from the Wiki, showing where the shank is. In this case, the side of the shank is oriented towards the viewer.

I have a similar question regarding honing, but perhaps it is best to deal with stropping first.

 

[gash]

I use a pencil-roll motion, with a little bit of wrist movement. I like the pencil-roll because it's small and easy.

 

[Alum of Potash]

I use a pencil-roll motion, with a little bit of wrist movement. I like the pencil-roll because it's small and easy.

Thank you, but do you grip the shank at the top and bottom or on the sides leading up to this and afterwards?

 

[gash]

Top and bottom, like you described.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Top and bottom, like you described.

+1. But it can be done either way. YMMV. Whatever blows your skirt up.

 

[Doc226]

I actually hold the shank and roll my wrist. Probably not correct but it works for me.

 

[Alum of Potash]

To the above, thanks for your comments. Let me weigh in at this point as well. For the past year, I have been holding the shank from top to bottom and pencil-rolling as described. This has led me to nicking one strop one sole time; but still, I do not think that my stropping is all that it could be. No rolled edges over the past few months, but all the same, it could be better as my sharpened edge dulls fairly quickly (at least by Doc's standard), clocking in at 10 or less shaves and all that. So recently, I have studied the question and have been led to believe that holding the shank on the sides and turning the wrist very slightly during the roll might be the key. So I practiced on a Star Shaving strop and this seemed to work, as well as my noticing that the heavy draw there seemed lessened given the fuller contact with the blade. Then I switched to a favorite strop of mine with very little draw and succeeding in nicking it very slightly on the edge two days in a row! While discouraging, I must confess that the shaves did seem closer. Since then, I have switched back to my more-practiced method and found the shave to be not as close; hence my dilemma. One theory leads me to think that the stropping should be as light as possible; yet I have also heard that some pressure could be applied when stropping, without detriment. While holding the shank at the top and bottom, and pencil-rolling, the stropping seems to tend towards the light side; while holding the shank on the sides and slightly turning the wrist during the roll, it tends to be heavier.

 

[Doc226]

Here is my stropping. Like I said I roll my wrist and don't roll the razor.

 

[Pkrankow]

I hear my wrist clicking and grinding just watching that....I did significant damage to my wrists as a teen, without breaking them

I start by putting my thumb between the heel and pivot against the shank. I always start "up", and do a partial pencil roll, partial wrist roll. I find that using my paddle strop I can strop the blade more lightly than on my hanging strop. I think this is in part because I can choose the direction better, the strop is about a 45 degree angle resting against the wall.

When you nick the strop it is because the razor is traveling edge first instead of spine first.

Phil

 

[cb91710]

Here is my stropping. Like I said I roll my wrist and don't roll the razor.

Same here.

I tried the pencil roll and am just not comfortable with it.
I roll my wrist nearly the full 180 with just a slight finger roll.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Yes, thanks Alfredo, I have studied your video and should probably study it some more. As I recall from both your video and Jarrod's on TSS, the fingers are placed in a sort of hybrid fashion, that is to say gripping the shank at the top and bottom on the up-stroke and then from side to side on the return (or maybe the opposite regarding up-stroke and return?). --Alan

 

[Alum of Potash]

I hear my wrist clicking and grinding just watching that....I did significant damage to my wrists as a teen, without breaking them

I start by putting my thumb between the heel and pivot against the shank. I always start "up", and do a partial pencil roll, partial wrist roll. I find that using my paddle strop I can strop the blade more lightly than on my hanging strop. I think this is in part because I can choose the direction better, the strop is about a 45 degree angle resting against the wall.

When you nick the strop it is because the razor is traveling edge first instead of spine first.

Phil

Thanks. Lightness seems key in your description. If I have nicked my strop using what I will call the side-to-side heavy handed wrist-turn approach, it must be because I did not lift the edge before flipping, which I find far easier to do while holding the shank at the top and bottom and doing a pencil-roll. The nick was always on the upstroke at the moment when the blade was coming to a stop prior to flipping. So the heavy-handed side-to-side hold doesn't seem me start the flip in time--except with the latigo strop with the heavier draw. I have tried holding the shank both ways with a small paddle without incident; and with a hanging strop, the strop is more or less always held horizontal at at a level between my hip and my navel. The hybrid switch to a side-to-side hold upon the return, while heavier there, strikes me as unsymmetrical, but may be the only way as it offers more control upon the return (just talking to myself here).

 

[BrewCommando]

This has led me to nicking one strop one sole time; but still, I do not think that my stropping is all that it could be. No rolled edges over the past few months, but all the same, it could be better as my sharpened edge dulls fairly quickly (at least by Doc's standard), clocking in at 10 or less shaves and all that.

Does this dulling happen with all your straight razors? I am new to straight shaving but not to blades. If you are getting a truly shave sharp edge after stropping, then could it just be a characteristic of the steel that it dulls after <10 shaves?

Given your research and experience stropping, I'd wager you aren't deficient as you may think.

I'm a wrist roller, but mainly because of muscle memory from stropping knives. I dool feel more in control using wrist motion though, as the pencil roll requires finer motor skill.

For newer stroppers reading this thread, one thing I learnt when stropping knives is that exaggerating parts of the technique and slowly adjusting helped (true for many things). What I mean by this is when rolling, rather than waiting until the end of the stroke to roll, finish and lift early whilst still moving fairly quickly, so you are guaranteed to be rolling in the air. Gradually increase the blade's time on the strop until the rolling motion is as close to the end of the blades's travel as you are comfortable with. I found that helped to gauge when to roll.

 

[joshua1970]

Here is my stropping. Like I said I roll my wrist and don't roll the razor.

I'm a wrist roller too - it just feels more natural. nice video btw and damn fine strop, of course

 

[Kentos]

I hold top and bottom with very little wrist roll. If you want some pressure I just twist the razor a little into the strop.

 

[Alum of Potash]

I hold top and bottom with very little wrist roll. If you want some pressure I just twist the razor a little into the strop.

Thanks a lot Kent. Great attention to detail; I follow this completely. Now imagine that when you are making your first pass (away from you), your thumb and forefinger are as depicted at first, with the thumb at the bottom and the the forefinger at the top; then, when you arrive at the flip (or razor roll in this case), you have devised a way in which the thumb and finger more or less remain in the same gestural position, with the thumb now being placed at the top and the forefinger at the bottom for the return (towards you). That is what I am doing when things work well. Pressure can be added there or released as needed. I have returned to this, my earlier way of stropping, without incident; but your detailed video shows what may be happening in Doc's and Jarrod's respective methods relative to the wrist, actually placing the thumb close to the side for the return, which is something I may have missed before. I'll give it a try with a practice strop tomorrow.

 

[Kentos]

Different strokes for different folks . Also, my wrist is cocked to facilitate good contact on the return lap. If you situate the wrist more for the "going away" lap, you might need to roll the wrist forward on the return to get good contact.

I mainly posted to show a technique without the wrist roll. In practice I am sure the wrist does move a bit.

 

[Seraphim]

Take some dramamine, and then watch this:

 

[Alum of Potash]

Thanks Seraphim, from the northern side of the river. Pretty fast there. Does not having a shoulder contribute to or demand the rapidity?

 

[Kentos]

Take some dramamine, and then watch this:

I bet everytime you hear and watch that vid you mourn the sale of that strop...