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Old dog, new tricks

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Well, I'm not that old really, but having been DE shaving for 25 years, I have in many ways become fairly established in how I go about giving myself a shave. Despite this, I also think that you should never ever stop learning, and have found joining this site quite interesting, partially for the way that the prevalent advice is often so very different to what I do, and to what I have found to give me the best results.

The rest of this post, like so many things in the shaving world, comes with a huge spoonful of YMMV. I'm not going to attempt to tell everybody they are doing it wrong, just to share the differences between my perception of current trends, and what I actually do based on my own experiences. In return, I hope (with your help) to understand why the generally issued advice is so different. I may not change my ways, but it's nice to understand why other advice is being given before I confuse the newbies by encouraging the polar opposite of everyone else.

Firstly, what the heck is this notion of "cushion" that I keep hearing?

People seem to like a lather that gives good cushion, and I can't think of anything beneficial from this whatsoever. Cushion implies that the razor is being supported or held off the face with the density of the lather. I purposefully apply a very thin lather, as I believe that lubrication is the primary objective - and cushion/density is an obstacle to the objective. If the lather holds the razor off the face, then either the blade is going to miss where it should be cutting, OR is likely to encourage the user to apply a little pressure to overcome the cushion. Pressure is bad. Very bad. Pressure leads to irritation and failed skin durability tests (cuts). How can you shave with a feather light touch, when you have built a cushioning layer between you and the razor?

Secondly. lather never gets a chance to cushion anyway.

The approaching comb/guard rail shoves most of the excess lather out of the way (after you apply a little more pressure to overcome the extra drag), the following blade travelling at skin level virtually clears the rest, and there is only a slight residual film to lubricate the skin should the trailing cap have contact with the face. Whatever cushion was intended, a properly oriented razor will eliminate the vast majority of this before the blade and cap even arrive on scene.

So far, my thinking is that seeking cushion in the lather is doubly pointless. Firstly, it's an obstacle to proper razor use, and secondly it is removed before it could do any good anyway.

Thirdly, and this is somewhat related, is my confusion with the attitude of "load it like you hate it".

I estimate my consumption rate of Mitchell's Wool Fat to be approximately 6g to 8g per month based on 15 to 20 shaves. Three or four seconds of swirls on the soap, and a little extra time taken to work this into the beard, gives me an effective lather with minimal wastage flushed down the drain, and means a 125g refill will last me well over a year. Loading with more product would either give me a dense and less lubricating lather, or if thinned down would just mean that I'm applying exactly what I do now, and flushing more down the drain. It seems all well and good for the soap makers and retailers, but I really do not see how this is supposed to be helping the new shaver.

I was self taught with DE shaving in my teens. My father had a full beard, and my grandfather used electric razors. The internet wasn't around back then to get discussion, written advice of video tutorials. Everyone else I knew that was wet shaving, was using the latest Gillette or Wilkinson's cartridge system. As a result, I figured out what works best (for me) purely on trial and error. While everyone's mileage does indeed vary, and we should all seek out what works for us individually, I am open to anyone telling me that I've been doing it wrong all these years if I end up with a better shave as a result.

As I said at the beginning of this (long) post, I might not change my ways, as my ways work for me, but it might change the way I give advice to those just starting out on their journey of discovery. If we are all giving different advice, we'll just confuse them more than they already were.
 
Have not had the chance to offer advice to anyone starting out with DE shaving but your thoughts about lather cushion is exactly what I have been thinking myself.
 
Simply put, you are not doing anything wrong, but then neither is anyone else who enjoys cushion in their lather or who needs to load a lot of product to get the lather that works for them. If B&B had an official motto, it would no doubt be "YMMV".
 

FarmerTan

"Self appointed king of Arkoland"
Simply put, you are not doing anything wrong, but then neither is anyone else who enjoys cushion in their lather or who needs to load a lot of product to get the lather that works for them. If B&B had an official motto, it would no doubt be "YMMV".
Well said. I would also guess beard type would have something to do with it?
 
When I hear the term "cushion" I think of how comfortably the lather gets the job done. In fact, to me cushion and slickness are describing the same thing. I am not sure if I've ever heard of anyone suggesting that a lather applied thickly gives you any advantage when shaving, and they are most certainly wrong if they did. In the end, you're right, it's not an ideal term.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Simply put, you are not doing anything wrong, but then neither is anyone else who enjoys cushion in their lather or who needs to load a lot of product to get the lather that works for them. If B&B had an official motto, it would no doubt be "YMMV".

I completely agree 100%, and fully acknowledged that in my OP.

I'm not for one moment suggesting everyone should do what I do, because everyone should develop their own techniques based on their own beard and skin types. I'm just asking what is supposedly gained by the newcomer, by advising them to build "cushion" and "load it like you hate it", because I genuinely do not understand why this is being preached.

Is there some logic to this that I have missed, or is this just "advice" that has filtered through from manufacturers/retailers, who obviously do benefit from increased consumption. There has to be some reason why people are being given this advice, other than because lots of other people said it first.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
When I hear the term "cushion" I think of how comfortably the lather gets the job done. In fact, to me cushion and slickness are describing the same thing. I am not sure if I've ever heard of anyone suggesting that a lather applied thickly gives you any advantage when shaving, and they are most certainly wrong if they did. In the end, you're right, it's not an ideal term.

My concern is that this is some concept cooked up by the same people who like to whip their lather till it stands in still peaks like they're making meringues. If there's merit to it, then let's support it, but if it's leading new guys in the wrong direction, we need to be clear on that too.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Here's another aspect of why I prefer a thin lather... Flow!

If lather is mixed to a yoghurt consistency, then it's not going to freely flow without being pushed/forced in a certain direction, which is going to make it difficult to ensure it's surrounding the base of each individual hair. Here's a rough diagram I knocked up to show what I suspect might happen when people make their lather too rich.

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Air gaps (the green areas) around the base of the hair where the cutting action is happening, are going to impare the quality of the shave. After all, if air was a lubricator, we wouldn't need lather at all. Although my diagram is an exaggerated perspective, I think it would be quite possible on thick dense beards for some areas of the beard to be virtually unlubricated with a denser product heavy lather that won't flow.

To me, a thinner (wetter and uncushioned) lather that will actually flow freely at skin level, is more likely to encapsulate the base of each hair, and provide the essential lubrication. It's also not going to give any resistance to the razor by virtue of it's own density.

Again ... I'm not preaching ... just trying to understand the opposing perspective.
 
I personally enjoy a rich lather because in my experience I gain water holding capacity with a heavier load. Water alone does not provide the slickness we desire, soap + water does. Even though I prefer a lather that is more rich, I like that lather to be applied to my face in a very thin layer.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
I personally enjoy a rich lather because in my experience I gain water holding capacity with a heavier load. Water alone does not provide the slickness we desire, soap + water does. Even though I prefer a lather that is more rich, I like that lather to be applied to my face in a very thin layer.

That much I understand. We want as much lubrication as possible. We don't want bubbles, because air doesn't lubricate. We also want it to hold the lubrication in the right spot rather than just all running off our chin. However, we also want it thin enough to be sure that the skin is covered so that we don't end up with gaps like in my sketch.

I appreciate that all beards are different, all soaps and creams are different, all brushes are different. Established shavers all have their own preferences too, and I'm sure that if you stood five of us in a line we would all prep and shave differently.

BUT ... and this is the important bit ... what advice do we give the newbie?

This is the underlying factor that I am trying to understand. I really don't care if someone here likes to apply it two inches thick and decorate it with chocolate sprinkles. Good luck to them. If it works for them, I wish them many years of pleasant and enjoyable shaves. I'm talking about the guy who has just unwrapped his birthday present and it's a starter kit of razor, soap and brush. Or maybe a guy who's new to wet shaving and happens to be searching for how to avoid razor burn. He has no idea what he's supposed to do, so he comes to this community. He hears the term cushion being used, and the phrase "load it like you hate it".

Are we giving that guy the best advice? If so, why? That's the questions that I am trying to answer.
 
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My understanding is that the phrase "load it like you hate it" is one method of ensuring that somebody that is new to making lather is gathering enough soap on their brush. It's probably not uncommon for somebody that's never made a lather with soap/brush to be too sparing with the soap, and as soon as they see 3 bubbles accumulate on their bristles they think they're ready to go. It's better to have too much and figure it out from there than to have a meager lather that disappears after your first razor stroke.

I can't help with the rest of it. I face lather, so a big bowl full of lather isn't something I work toward.
 
The problem we run into is there is no one-size-fits-all answer. Some newbies are going to benefit from thinner slicker lather, and some are going to need thicker more cushioned lather. Some soaps load quickly, and some need to be loaded "like it owes you money". I try to give new shavers the best advice I can based on my own experience, and hopefully it works for them as well. When I found these forums two years ago there were many different tutorials and nuggets of advice that I could absorb, and I think that's what we do best around here.
 
I completely agree 100%, and fully acknowledged that in my OP.

I'm not for one moment suggesting everyone should do what I do, because everyone should develop their own techniques based on their own beard and skin types. I'm just asking what is supposedly gained by the newcomer, by advising them to build "cushion" and "load it like you hate it", because I genuinely do not understand why this is being preached.

Is there some logic to this that I have missed, or is this just "advice" that has filtered through from manufacturers/retailers, who obviously do benefit from increased consumption. There has to be some reason why people are being given this advice, other than because lots of other people said it first.
I've seen you use the phrase "Load it like you hate it", in this thread twice, and once in a different thread a couple of days ago. Based on what you have written about yourself over the 3 weeks or so that you've been on B&B and how you shave, It seems that this is more about your perception of the advice is given by others here.

In your Hall of Fame post, you said that in so many words, that you go against popular opinions. That's fine. It doesn't make you wrong or right. Nor does it make any else who contributes wrong or right.

If you are happy in how you shave, and what to do to achieve it, that's great. Why does it bother you that others members do what works for them and offer advice when members ask for it? You said it yourself in your first part of this thread...YMMV. Keep in mind that opinions are like a$$ho!#!$, everybody has one.

We all have what works for us. Being that B&B is a open forum, when someone asks a question, there may be many different answers from anyone willing to offer it. It is up to the person who asked to decide what information given is best for him. Since it's comes down to YMMV, it's trial and error until the individual finds what works for them.

How much product someone uses in a shave is up to the individual. What "cushion" is...I don't know, and don't care. Does a soap lather easily? Is it slick? Do others get good shaves with it and recommend it? Does it have a pleasing scent? Those matter. If cushion falls into those parameters, then great. Otherwise it's not that important.

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That much I understand. We want as much lubrication as possible. We don't want bubbles, because air doesn't lubricate. We also want it to hold the lubrication in the right spot rather than just all running off our chin. However, we also want it thin enough to be sure that the skin is covered so that we don't end up with gaps like in my sketch.

I appreciate that all beards are different, all soaps and creams are different, all brushes are different. Established shavers all have their own preferences too, and I'm sure that if you stood five of us in a line we would all prep and shave differently.

BUT ... and this is the important bit ... what advice do we give the newbie?

This is the underlying factor that I am trying to understand. I really don't care if someone here likes to apply it two inches thick and decorate it with chocolate sprinkles. Good luck to them. If it works for them, I wish them many years of pleasant and enjoyable shaves. I'm talking about the guy who has just unwrapped his birthday present and it's a starter kit of razor, soap and brush. Or maybe a guy who's new to wet shaving and happens to be searching for how to avoid razor burn. He has no idea what he's supposed to do, so he comes to this community. He hears the term cushion being used, and the phrase "load it like you hate it".

Are we giving that guy the best advice? If so, why? That's the questions that I am trying to answer.
The only one using the phrase "Load it like you hate it"...is you. In 3 years around here, I've never seen it before and it makes no sense.

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I see the phrase regularly. Or some fairly close variation on it. I would say at least often enough that it sure isn't rare.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
The only one using the phrase "Load it like you hate it"...is you. In 3 years around here, I've never seen it before and it makes no sense.

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That's interesting! I've been here less than a month, and I'm only asking the question because I keep seeing it...
 
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