New pocket pistol review. LCP ii

[Ad Astra]

I didn’t like to hear her say that either. If a customer service rep had said that about any other pistol I probably would sell it. I can understand that $250(gun only) micro 380 is probably not made for the abuse most pistols are, but the reality is that those pistols are heavier and bigger and would not make a good pocket pistol for the summer. My 642 is probably as good as it gets for pocket carry, but it’s quite a bit thicker than the lcp. Maybe she just says that to everyone with a problem to try and get them to clean it and try it again before sending it in? I’m still not sold on pocket 380’s yet but I’ll play with it for a couple months before I start carrying it.

Jar, I’m sure she meant that it was not recommended to shoot hundreds of rounds without cleaning. She told me that if I was shooting a lot with it that I should periodically lube where the slide rubs the most.

I don’t mind cleaning it after 100 rounds. It’s not that fun to shoot in the first place. I only shot as much as I did to check reliability. Probably a box a month gun from this point on. Time will tell.

You're right of course, and they are being honest! Which is refreshing.

If advertised as such, they'd sell less, but it is what it is designed to be.

Overbuilt gear has it's cost, too. I'm carrying a Benchmade Adamas folder, a gift. Knife weighs about two pounds ... but I can cut a car in half, if needed.

(It won't. Last thing it cut was paper).

AA

 

[Ad Astra]

I wonder if they are talking about the number of rounds in a session or distance to target?

Aha! "Grammar Kills!" As in, "Let's eat, Grandma." Vice "Let's eat Grandma."

Long range sessions

Long-range sessions.


AA

 

[Bhugo]

You're right of course, and they are being honest! Which is refreshing.

If advertised as such, they'd sell less, but it is what it is designed to be.

Overbuilt gear has it's cost, too. I'm carrying a Benchmade Adamas folder, a gift. Knife weighs about two pounds ... but I can cut a car in half, if needed.

(It won't. Last thing it cut was paper).

AA

Benchmade can’t be beat!

Never know when you will get an uncooperative piece of paper.

 

[OkieStubble]

It's kind of difficult to test and find out if a pocket .380 will be reliable or not isn't it? For one, their not fun to shoot at all. And secondly, their not meant to take hundreds of rounds in a single range session. So what do we .380 pocket pistol people do, to find the confidence in carrying a particular pocket pistol in the first place?

In my opinion, a small pocket pistol should be tested in the same way that it is most likely, going to be deployed in a close up, self defense, "Hey! get the hell up off of me! scenario.

All though many, will test their full size pistols with hundreds and thousands of rounds thru them; and while they have many rounds thru them, they still might not have put 5 or 7 quick and fast placed shots in a single string/volley of fire.

But this single, string/volley of fire, of 5-7 shots, is exactly how a small pocket pistol like a Ruger LCP II will most likely be used.

When my wife, first purchased hers several years ago, we got her the Ruger LCP II and then the Glock 43 a couple of months later for a Christmas gift. By the time she received the G43 for Christmas, we probably already had, only 250 rounds thru her LCP II. So now that she has started to do more running and gunning with her Glock, (something about picturing an old lady "running & gunning" makes me smile. ) and going to the range on a regular basis, she will mainly focus on practicing with her G43. But after the range session concludes, she will quickly and efficiently, pull her Ruger LCP II from where ever she is carrying it and she will rip off a fast succession of 5 or 7 shots, in the exact manner and form that will be done in real life, if she ever has to use it. Pocket lint, mothballs, long hair stuck in the hammer and all.

When she does this, I am sitting there watching and looking for irregularities. Did all the shots fire? Did the slide hiccup or pause at all? Did the magazine drop freely on her reload. How did the slide look and sound going back into battery? If all those things check out; and depending on how many different sessions like this she has under her belt, she will either reload and back in her pocket it goes for next time, or she will take it home and clean it and back in her holster it goes for the next time.

So if we do the math, 250 rounds when she first got it; and guesstimating several dozen range trips of let's say, 7 rounds a trip over the last 3 years, that's 168 rounds at the range + 250 rounds when she first got it, for a total to date of 418 rounds, roughly guessing as the crow flys.

While 418 rounds isn't much for a Glock 43, or a Sig P365, Kahr PM9 etc, For a little Ruger pocket pistol that isn't meant to shoot a bunch, instead of looking at it like only 418 rounds, we instead look at it like 24 different times, she has had to quickly pull it out of her dusty, linty pocket and empty the contents of it's chamber and magazine into a paper, 'bad guy' silhouette. 24 times it has been reliable for her in that 'make believe' scenario.

She is due for another range session next week. And I am confident she will be able to add to her round count by 7 rounds, and add to her 'make believe scenario' count to 25.

It works for her/me.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Mine lacks the laser. I inherited it from my brother. When I went to the range with him I thought he was just a lousy shot (with this gun), but I've found it's either got very bad sights or it is an inaccurate gun.

Of course, I'm only ever going to really use it at very close ranges.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[OkieStubble]

Mine lacks the laser. I inherited it from my brother. When I went to the range with him I thought he was just a lousy shot (with this gun), but I've found it's either got very bad sights or it is an inaccurate gun.

Of course, I'm only ever going to really use it at very close ranges.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Yeah, at the ranges it was designed to be used for, I don't even need the sights.

 

[jar_]

It's kind of difficult to test and find out if a pocket .380 will be reliable or not isn't it? For one, their not fun to shoot at all. And secondly, their not meant to take hundreds of rounds in a single range session. So what do we .380 pocket pistol people do, to find the confidence in carrying a particular pocket pistol in the first place?

In my opinion, a small pocket pistol should be tested in the same way that it is most likely, going to be deployed in a close up, self defense, "Hey! get the hell up off of me! scenario.

All though many, will test their full size pistols with hundreds and thousands of rounds thru them; and while they have many rounds thru them, they still might not have put 5 or 7 quick and fast placed shots in a single string/volley of fire.

But this single, string/volley of fire, of 5-7 shots, is exactly how a small pocket pistol like a Ruger LCP II will most likely be used.

When my wife, first purchased hers several years ago, we got her the Ruger LCP II and then the Glock 43 a couple of months later for a Christmas gift. By the time she received the G43 for Christmas, we probably already had, only 250 rounds thru her LCP II. So now that she has started to do more running and gunning with her Glock, (something about picturing an old lady "running & gunning" makes me smile. ) and going to the range on a regular basis, she will mainly focus on practicing with her G43. But after the range session concludes, she will quickly and efficiently, pull her Ruger LCP II from where ever she is carrying it and she will rip off a fast succession of 5 or 7 shots, in the exact manner and form that will be done in real life, if she ever has to use it. Pocket lint, mothballs, long hair stuck in the hammer and all.

When she does this, I am sitting there watching and looking for irregularities. Did all the shots fire? Did the slide hiccup or pause at all? Did the magazine drop freely on her reload. How did the slide look and sound going back into battery? If all those things check out; and depending on how many different sessions like this she has under her belt, she will either reload and back in her pocket it goes for next time, or she will take it home and clean it and back in her holster it goes for the next time.

So if we do the math, 250 rounds when she first got it; and guesstimating several dozen range trips of let's say, 7 rounds a trip over the last 3 years, that's 168 rounds at the range + 250 rounds when she first got it, for a total to date of 418 rounds, roughly guessing as the crow flys.

While 418 rounds isn't much for a Glock 43, or a Sig P365, Kahr PM9 etc, For a little Ruger pocket pistol that isn't meant to shoot a bunch, instead of looking at it like only 418 rounds, we instead look at it like 24 different times, she has had to quickly pull it out of her dusty, linty pocket and empty the contents of it's chamber and magazine into a paper, 'bad guy' silhouette. 24 times it has been reliable for her in that 'make believe' scenario.

She is due for another range session next week. And I am confident she will be able to add to her round count by 7 rounds, and add to her 'make believe scenario' count to 25.

It works for her/me.

I add a few additional drills with my pocket pistols and have been doing so for about a half century or more now. None of the guns have had a brazillion rounds though it but all get several reloads each session.

Things I incorporate.

One hand drill both strong and weak hand. Odds are that if it really is a self defense situation I will need to be doing at least two things at once, warding off an attack, directing someone else's movements or trying to misdirect a threat's attention while also actively defending myself. The goal is to simply traing to let each hand move independently.

Timed presentation practice. Start with whatever I normally carry and transition to drawing the handgun and placing myself in a variety of pre-trigger pull; positions; close to body and waist high, near body and chest high, semi-extended one handed, extended and aimed two handed.

Repeat the same drill but this time fire a set of three (or two if a J frame) double taps. I want each double tap set to be within a palm width of my POA and each double tap set at least 6 to 12 inches away from the other sets. If using a pistol drop the mag and reload. If a revolver point barrel up, clear cylinder, point barrel down and reload from a speed loader without looking at the gun.

Finish each drill with my gun at my body, two hand, shoulder high, muzzle up and do a full 360 scan. Try to note as many specific objects as possible during each scan.
​

My goal is to constantly drill muscle memory and situational awareness as much as accuracy and speed and also to clear away any tunnel vision and do a full and renewed threat assessment.

 

[Ad Astra]

Some very good insights here!

Better than the Derringer of old... In the 1979s, a family friend showed me a High Standard .22 mag he carried. I was impressed.

Heck, those Bond Arms guns sell!

AA

 

[Bhugo]

Good stuff guys!

 

[OkieStubble]

I add a few additional drills with my pocket pistols and have been doing so for about a half century or more now. None of the guns have had a brazillion rounds though it but all get several reloads each session.

Things I incorporate.

One hand drill both strong and weak hand. Odds are that if it really is a self defense situation I will need to be doing at least two things at once, warding off an attack, directing someone else's movements or trying to misdirect a threat's attention while also actively defending myself. The goal is to simply traing to let each hand move independently.

Timed presentation practice. Start with whatever I normally carry and transition to drawing the handgun and placing myself in a variety of pre-trigger pull; positions; close to body and waist high, near body and chest high, semi-extended one handed, extended and aimed two handed.

Repeat the same drill but this time fire a set of three (or two if a J frame) double taps. I want each double tap set to be within a palm width of my POA and each double tap set at least 6 to 12 inches away from the other sets. If using a pistol drop the mag and reload. If a revolver point barrel up, clear cylinder, point barrel down and reload from a speed loader without looking at the gun.

Finish each drill with my gun at my body, two hand, shoulder high, muzzle up and do a full 360 scan. Try to note as many specific objects as possible during each scan.
​

My goal is to constantly drill muscle memory and situational awareness as much as accuracy and speed and also to clear away any tunnel vision and do a full and renewed threat assessment.

Excellent! I'm just happy my wife is finally, consistently carrying on a daily basis and will go to the range with me on a semi-regular basis. Getting her there is key, the training she does once she's there, she leaves it up to me. I always know ahead of time, if the training is going to be extensive, I will have to bribe her with an ice cream cone once we finish.

 

[Deltaboy]

Thanks

 

[Bhugo]

It's kind of difficult to test and find out if a pocket .380 will be reliable or not isn't it? For one, their not fun to shoot at all. And secondly, their not meant to take hundreds of rounds in a single range session. So what do we .380 pocket pistol people do, to find the confidence in carrying a particular pocket pistol in the first place?

In my opinion, a small pocket pistol should be tested in the same way that it is most likely, going to be deployed in a close up, self defense, "Hey! get the hell up off of me! scenario.

All though many, will test their full size pistols with hundreds and thousands of rounds thru them; and while they have many rounds thru them, they still might not have put 5 or 7 quick and fast placed shots in a single string/volley of fire.

But this single, string/volley of fire, of 5-7 shots, is exactly how a small pocket pistol like a Ruger LCP II will most likely be used.

When my wife, first purchased hers several years ago, we got her the Ruger LCP II and then the Glock 43 a couple of months later for a Christmas gift. By the time she received the G43 for Christmas, we probably already had, only 250 rounds thru her LCP II. So now that she has started to do more running and gunning with her Glock, (something about picturing an old lady "running & gunning" makes me smile. ) and going to the range on a regular basis, she will mainly focus on practicing with her G43. But after the range session concludes, she will quickly and efficiently, pull her Ruger LCP II from where ever she is carrying it and she will rip off a fast succession of 5 or 7 shots, in the exact manner and form that will be done in real life, if she ever has to use it. Pocket lint, mothballs, long hair stuck in the hammer and all.

When she does this, I am sitting there watching and looking for irregularities. Did all the shots fire? Did the slide hiccup or pause at all? Did the magazine drop freely on her reload. How did the slide look and sound going back into battery? If all those things check out; and depending on how many different sessions like this she has under her belt, she will either reload and back in her pocket it goes for next time, or she will take it home and clean it and back in her holster it goes for the next time.

So if we do the math, 250 rounds when she first got it; and guesstimating several dozen range trips of let's say, 7 rounds a trip over the last 3 years, that's 168 rounds at the range + 250 rounds when she first got it, for a total to date of 418 rounds, roughly guessing as the crow flys.

While 418 rounds isn't much for a Glock 43, or a Sig P365, Kahr PM9 etc, For a little Ruger pocket pistol that isn't meant to shoot a bunch, instead of looking at it like only 418 rounds, we instead look at it like 24 different times, she has had to quickly pull it out of her dusty, linty pocket and empty the contents of it's chamber and magazine into a paper, 'bad guy' silhouette. 24 times it has been reliable for her in that 'make believe' scenario.

She is due for another range session next week. And I am confident she will be able to add to her round count by 7 rounds, and add to her 'make believe scenario' count to 25.

It works for her/me.

Went to pick up my new rifle today and had a half hour to burn at the gun shop so I popped in and shot my Kahr and at the end of my half hour, I did as your wife does and emptied the LCP II, popped in the other mag and emptied it as well. No problems at all. Great advice!

 

[Bogeyman]

...My goal is to constantly drill muscle memory and situational awareness as much as accuracy and speed and also to clear away any tunnel vision and do a full and renewed threat assessment.

There is no such thing as muscle "memory".

Muscle Memory—It’s in Your Head, Not Your Limbs

Anytime you go to get training and someone starts talking about muscle "memory" and trigger reset do yourself a favor: leave. That is just so much BS. No human can duplicate the exact pull of a trigger every single time to the mm like a cyborg. Rob Leatham, one of the greatest shooters of all time, says he can't. He "slaps" the trigger and lets it fully reset with his finger off the trigger and I advise anyone to do the same unless they want to experience a MALF when they "short stroke" a trigger in a real gunfight under stress. In the old days many a LEO did that with DA revolvers and they had to pop the cylinder to fix it.

No training on Earth can prepare someone for a Real World gunfight. You'll either survive or you won't and a lot of luck is at play. What a person can do is "pad' luck by carrying a service grade round in a handgun with good defensive JHP's that have good street cred. Handguns carried on your person for self defense should be comforting and not comfortable to quote trainer Clint Smith. If one is carrying a certain type handgun merely because it's convenient then it's time to reevaluate one's reasoning. You won't find an armorer in Piggly Wiggly in the middle of a robbery to "rekit' you because you chose a "mouse" gun or ran out of ammo. What you get is what you have on you. No "Mulligans".

 

[OkieStubble]

Nice read @Bogeyman. I have read plenty of Leatham’s stuff in various gun rags over the years. He is a knowledgeable and respected voice in the world of firearms and tactics.

I am curious about the word “short stroking.” It’s usually used when a pump shotgun or bolted rifle or semi automatic of any kind, fails to bring the receiver bolt and round to a full lock up either at the fault of the operator who fails to fully operate the action of a manual or the gas from the previous ejected round failed to fully cycle on an auto.

I also know a revolver’s trigger can be “short stroked” or caused the action to become bound when the cylinder gets rotated but the hammer isn’t completely cycled. I’m not sure if a double action pistol can be or not, but I’m almost positive a striker fired or single action trigger isn’t capable of being “short stroked”?

Also, while I agree with your post as there is no such thing as muscle memory in the literal sense, as if the muscles in our trigger fingers have memory, I will go out on a branch here and say, that when @jar_ says he practices repetitive skills in order to train the “muscle” he means that muscle which is between our ears, in order to retain a memory for a faster recall which does come from repeatedly practicing whatever we wish to be, better, sharper, faster with.

The word “muscle memory”. Is just an old school slang term for having a faster mental recall, by conditioning ones, brain or thought process to recall a skill faster, thru repetitive practice.

I’m actually surprised someone as old school as Leatham took that kind of verbiage literally in the first place. But writers are in the business of selling magazines and books and I’m sure finding gun related material to constantly write about and get people to buy and read can be slim pickins’ Sometimes.

 

[OkieStubble]

Went to pick up my new rifle today and had a half hour to burn at the gun shop so I popped in and shot my Kahr and at the end of my half hour, I did as your wife does and emptied the LCP II, popped in the other mag and emptied it as well. No problems at all. Great advice!

Great news! So in other words, your new Ruger LCP II passed its “first test” of being pulled very fast out of a dusty and linty pants pocket, and emptied quickly of it’s rounds into a make believe target, just like it would be used in real life?

Excellent! Just the first of many successful practice scenarios I hope?

 

[jar_]

There is no such thing as muscle "memory".

Muscle Memory—It’s in Your Head, Not Your Limbs

Anytime you go to get training and someone starts talking about muscle "memory" and trigger reset do yourself a favor: leave. That is just so much BS. No human can duplicate the exact pull of a trigger every single time to the mm like a cyborg. Rob Leatham, one of the greatest shooters of all time, says he can't. He "slaps" the trigger and lets it fully reset with his finger off the trigger and I advise anyone to do the same unless they want to experience a MALF when they "short stroke" a trigger in a real gunfight under stress. In the old days many a LEO did that with DA revolvers and they had to pop the cylinder to fix it.

No training on Earth can prepare someone for a Real World gunfight. You'll either survive or you won't and a lot of luck is at play. What a person can do is "pad' luck by carrying a service grade round in a handgun with good defensive JHP's that have good street cred. Handguns carried on your person for self defense should be comforting and not comfortable to quote trainer Clint Smith. If one is carrying a certain type handgun merely because it's convenient then it's time to reevaluate one's reasoning. You won't find an armorer in Piggly Wiggly in the middle of a robbery to "rekit' you because you chose a "mouse" gun or ran out of ammo. What you get is what you have on you. No "Mulligans".

Of course it's in your head as anyone over about ten knows.

The operative is MEMORY. Learn to read.

 

[Bogeyman]

Of course it's in your head as anyone over about ten knows.

The operative is MEMORY. Learn to read.

That is not what you meant and you know it. Don't be a smart aleck.

 

[OkieStubble]

Of course it's in your head as anyone over about ten knows.

The operative is MEMORY. Learn to read.

That is not what you meant and you know it. Don't be a smart aleck.

Well, lets look at what he said again. He said,

"My goal is to constantly drill muscle memory and situational awareness as much as accuracy and speed and also to clear away any tunnel vision and do a full and renewed threat assessment."

Definitely not trying to argue with ya my man, Cuz I do like much of what you post and the way you think on guns and stuff, but to me, it does look like he meant "using his brain memory" and not actual, literal finger muscle memory which you are wrongly accusing my good man.

Do you really think, "a finger" can have "situational awareness"? Clear away "tunnel vision"? And do a "threat assessment?" I think you just "literally" took Leatham's "too literal" points about "muscle memory" maybe "too literally"?

Just sayin.' Nuthin' but luv for ya'.

 

[Claudel Xerxes]

There is no such thing as muscle "memory".

Muscle Memory—It’s in Your Head, Not Your Limbs

Anytime you go to get training and someone starts talking about muscle "memory" and trigger reset do yourself a favor: leave. That is just so much BS. No human can duplicate the exact pull of a trigger every single time to the mm like a cyborg.

That's interesting, because musicians do that all the time. Maybe the recoil impulse affects how precise and delicate a trigger can be pulled. Or, perhaps the mechanics of a gun is partly the culprit.

 

[Bogeyman]

Go to 16:39. This is probably the most blatant and honest description of what a shooter needs to do to be fast & accurate as described by a legend.