Mystic Waters - Adios!

[Teddyboy]

I have had enough with this stuff. After about 10 palm latherings, no exaggeration, I thought I had a decent lathering technique for this stuff. About 15 minutes ago, after a shower, I loaded the brush and began lathering. I got what appeared to be the beginnings of nice lather, but a little on the dry side. I added a few drops of water (just a few) and the lather moistened but maintained a nice body, just as I wanted. Then during my first pass I noticed the friggin' lather started to disappear!! I loaded the brush again and lathered without adding more water, and raced to finish the shave before the second lather disappeared (which it quickly began to do). I have never seen anything like this before! If I had this problem with other products I would not be so outraged, but I have not.

I had problems with both of the two flavors I just received w/in the last week. Twenty-four buckaroos down the toilet. I don't know if they were bad batches or what, but I dug out the pucks and threw them right in the garbage. Good riddance to that stuff! However, I did keep the tubs after I tore off the labels.

Adios to Mystic Waters - there are so many other excellent soaps and creams to visit.

Thanks for listening.

P.S. This post is not meant to get anyone's passions in an uproar. I've nothing but admiration for my fellow BBer's, especially those that figured out this finicky soap.

 

[Predict]

You should have gave that soap to someone else who appreciates fine shave soap
seriously though, you must have got a bad batch or something cause mystic water is just about the easiest lathering soap ever!

 

[mctmatt]

I will not say it is crap, but I probably will not make another purchase either as it just does not perform to the standards of other soaps that I have used.

 

[the_ogre25]

At least through them up on the BST. You will probably recoup some of your money, they seem to sell pretty quick.

 

[craig94yj]

I received a sample in a PIF once. I was not impressed and I also experienced the disappearing lather. Variety is the spice of life, but my life won't miss that soap either. Good shaves to you.

 

[michiganlover]

At least through them up on the BST. You will probably recoup some of your money, they seem to sell pretty quick.

+1

I am sure he could have gotten at least half of his money back.

 

[cryhavoc]

Sorry to hear about your experience, I used a sample of MW Wild Lavender today and the lather was thick and stable.

 

[JCinPA]

You should have gave that soap to someone else who appreciates fine shave soap
seriously though, you must have got a bad batch or something cause mystic water is just about the easiest lathering soap ever!

You, know, I am not a MW basher, I posted a thread about doing a half/half shave with Martin de Candre and IMO they were equals. It is FANTASTIC soap when you can dial it in. The fact is it is one of the finickiest soaps on the market. The difference is that any 3-year old could lather MdC every time.

Look, I'm not trying to stir the pot here, I'm really not. But having had a LOT of experience with MW (along with a meaningful number of other experienced shavers) I simply have to jump into these threads when I read posts like that. You DID NOT say this, but your implication there is that the OP is a bit of a dolt for not having figured it out. And that is a somewhat annoying characteristic of the MW acolytes.

Look, MW can give a shave and after shave feel the equal of any other soap on the planet, barring not even the exalted MdC. But it is finicky and can be difficult to master. Or it varies a lot from batch to batch (which you indicated could be the case, to be fair). Those are the only two possibilities. And the YMMV thing around here is bordering perilously on Political Correctness, which is also irritating.

The definition of YMMV is that individual experiences vary. You find it easy to lather, a significant number of folks don't. You think it's a piece of cake, many have found it infuriating. THAT is YMMV. What is not YMMV is that it is a finicky soap. The fact that mileage varies so radically around here defines finicky. Your experience does not negate the experience of others who have tried it. Teddyboy joined here in 2007 and has a significant post count. We can safely assume he is experienced ... and like me, and Cvac and Brucered, and many others, he had issues getting it to work. The fact that one can get the best shave of his life out of it is not negated by the fact that it can be an inconsistent experience. Part of the quality of a soap is its consistency, and this one falls short on that score.

Having had as good a shave as MdC with it on more than one occasion, I decided to stop posting about it, I have my opinions. But I do post whenever I see comments like yours. I have to. Because the fact that you find it to be so easy does not negate the fact that it is finicky ... your post actually sort of denies the YMMV thing.

Queen Charlotte Soap croaps, with a nearly identical ingredient list give, IMO of course, an equal quality shave and after shave face feel, but are also much more consistent across the experiences of a large number of users. And it works in a warm scuttle, which MW won't. That may not matter to you, but it does to folks (like me) who use a scuttle at least in the cooler months. I face lather in the warm weather.

I respectfully submit that your comment, while truly representing your YMMV experience with this product borders on the snarky. I am quite sure that was not your intent, but that's how it comes across. In the communication process it is the responsibility of the communicator to make himself understood, it is not incumbent on the rest of us to be mind readers. MW fans, like everyone else here, are very nice and enjoyable folks. But many of you who have no trouble with this product, unintentionally I'm sure, present a little of that snarkiness when defending your favored product.

Look, here is a reasonable way to promote MW.

"Mystic Waters is a fantastic soap! When you get it dialed in just so you will likely have the most sublime shaving experience of your life with it. However, like other classic and respected soaps, MWF as a for instance, it can be a bit difficult to master. I suggest you try it, but be prepared for the possibility you may have to work with it for a while to get the best out of it."

I am not knocking anyone's experience with MW when it is great. I posted a rather humorous image of a choir of angels singing when I finally hit the sweet spot in my long testing post. I like it.

But Mystic Waters is a finicky product, and that is a fact, not YMMV. YMMV means a lot of peoples' mileage varies NOT JUST YOURS. While some may not like the scent or the price, nobody says MdC is hard to use or does not give a world class shave. With MW many have trouble with it THAT is YMMV. The YMMV factor is wide enough with MW to drive a truck through!

Sorry for the screed, but as one who has mastered it I have no issues at all with singing the praises of it's shaving qualities. I do have issues with its fans insisting that it is the easiest soap on the planet to lather and implying that there is something wrong with someone who has trouble lathering it. It is truly infuriating. One aspect of a good shave soap is consistency of people's ability to get the most out of it.

You love it, that's great. But do not overgeneralize your personal experience with lathering it to others. And I am not doing that either. I am simply recognizing what you folks will not ... that a much higher percentage of people have trouble lathering MW than other classic soaps. Any time I suggest it is perfect on scents, slickness, density, after shave face feel, but sadly lacking in ease of lathering and suggest maybe a slight tweak of the formula might be indicated, the MW fans get all up in arms.

"No! It's perfect just like it is!" Well, fine then. Keep it that way. But learn to live with the fact MW is simply not in the MdC or Queen Charlotte Soap category of easy latherers. And stop implying others are dolts if they don't see it your way. There are enough threads like this one to indicate I'm not just pushing my experience here, too. About the only other soap that has so many die hard fans but with this many threads about lathering issues is MWF.

But the MWF fans know that! They present it like I did. "This is truly great stuff, stick with it, it's worth it." They don't accuse the MWF folks who have trouble with it as being incompetent. MWF is what it is, a terrific, albeit somewhat more finicky soap than others. That's what MW is.

Again, I mean no disrespect, and I'm not trying to stir the pot. I like MW. I know you did not mean to imply Teddyboy was a dolt. But that's how it came across to me. And you MW fans have to stop living in denial about the experiences of others who have issues lathering this stuff. It is demonstrably not one of the easiest latherers out there. Get over it.

I do recommend trying this soap, it can be one of the best there is. And if you don't like it, trade it on the BST. But I won't bash anyone for deciding this is more trouble than it's worth.

 

[Teddyboy]

JC, I earnestly appreciate your support although I didn't necessarily feel Predict was nominating me for dolt-hood. Maybe I'm mellowing. However, you are also correct that many afficionados of various products, not just MW come to their rescue when "assaulted." This I have seen over the last few years and, gulp!, have probably been guilty of myself. Hopefully Predict will not take it personally and overreact but just mark it up to experience.

I should point out that this was not the first batch of MWs I had. The first two flavors also "crapped out" on me so I melted them and made shave sticks. They actually work OK, so I thought I'd give it another chance given the accolades it gets. But this time it seemed worse. When I soak the brush, and then shake/squeeze the excess water out, I load for about 30-45 sec and begin to lather. It looks promising at that point-thick but on the dry side. But then just a few drops more and it first revs up...then disappears. The shave was not bad when I could get there before the lather disappeared. I often wondered what the quality control is like for a small artisan enterprise like MW, but I cannot help thinking that there was an ingredient missing. Sometimes, an ingredient's main property is to stiffen the lather or foam to keep it from collapsing.

Anyway, I learned two things:
1] Not to forget the BST (although throwing this stuff away was a cleansing experience for the soul); and
2] Give QCS a shot - if they are that good and more consistent they deserve my business.

Thanks again for your input, and thank you for your service.

Regards,
Ted

 

[Predict]

Thanks for not stirring the pot Dolt.

 

[Predict]

Everybody says Cella is great and easy to lather but I have a hard time lathering it. I sold mine because I couldn't get it to lather well. But I do not get my panties in a bunch when other people post how great it is. But then, I'm no dolt.

 

[Teddyboy]

Everybody says Cella is great and easy to lather but I have a hard time lathering it. I sold mine because I couldn't get it to lather well. But I do not get my panties in a bunch when other people post how great it is. But then, I'm no dolt.

Even those that do not master Cella can take the high road if they try.

 

[Predict]

Dangit! I had to look up dolt to see what it means. I'm sorry I didn't mean to call anyone a real word that means stupid person. I though dolt was a word you made up.

 

[Teddyboy]

No harm, no foul.

 

[ODJ]

Same experience here. Ordered some samples. Although the scents are very nice, and the lather made from them 'looked' great, once applied it appeared thin and not very substantial.

 

[Cochese2323]

Sorry you couldn't get down with the MW soap. It can be a little finicky for me sometimes too. But it is worth extra effort to me. When you get the sweet spot for this soap, it is really great. Plus Michelle probably has the best scents available IMHO.

 

[Teddyboy]

Same experience here. Ordered some samples. Although the scents are very nice, and the lather made from them 'looked' great, once applied it appeared thin and not very substantial.

We should start a support group. One thing I've picked up in my reading this morning is that [1] if you are a bowl latherer and [2] if do not add any water after shaking off the excess water, you have a shot at good lather.
However, I am a die-hard face latherer.

 

[beginish]

Let's face it, there are so many variables to making lather, it's not surprising that one man's treasure is another man's trash. Even soaps that are generally held in the highest regard (Harris, AoS, Cella, Tabac....and on and on) can be dogs in some hands. I adhere to the practice of life's too short for bad lather, so if it's not working, pass it on or toss it in the bin. There are plenty more to choose from.

 

[Jefebadskin]

I'ts one of the easiest to lather for me, usually bowl lather, on the puck. I face lather sometimes and always use a ton of product no matter the brand and that seems to work. Teddyboy's statement "[1] if you are a bowl latherer and [2] if do not add any water after shaking off the excess water, you have a shot at good lather." might hit the nail on the head as to why it works for me.

 

[ODJ]

We should start a support group. One thing I've picked up in my reading this morning is that [1] if you are a bowl latherer and [2] if do not add any water after shaking off the excess water, you have a shot at good lather.
However, I am a die-hard face latherer.

I still think they probably make a great product, but it just doesn't work for me. My technique, type of water, etc. are probably heavy factors determining if it works for me or not, hence the YMMV mantra hears all over this site! I also don't like Mike's Natural Soaps, which have a HUGE following here! Get a great lather that whips up just fine, but the performance just doesn't come close to what I get from my QCS creams. Doesn't mean that Mike's is a bad product, it's just not for me! The way I see it, is there are so many creams and soaps out there, why waste time for weeks trying to 'dial it in'? If it doesn't work for me I just PIF or sell it to someone who appreciates it. Life's too short to fight with getting a good lather from a soap or cream!