Finally found my preferred way to lather!

[Tonikallinn]

I've made quite a few posts there, getting opinions on what i've been doing wrong when lathering. It started from using too little soap, to using to little water, and so on.

I followed a lot of different advice, making sure there are no bubbles, make sure theres a nice sheen to the lather, trying out a few different lather consistencies... I tried a whole lot of stuff, and got varying results. As in, sometimes a certain way to lather worked great for me, most times not

I finally cracked it... confirmed with 2 different soap bases and blades.

After trying a Noble Otter soap, i found that i got way less irritation compared to Stirling soaps. Like, way way less, close to none if any. I'm sure that some extra ingredients in the Noble Otter soap do help, someone i asked thought it might be the clay in the NO soap.

The NO soap also lathers up faster/easier than the Stirling, so i thought to myself to try lathering the Stirling soaps for longer. Sure enough, while adding a bunch of water, as i usually do, i keep working the lather until it becomes very thick. It has changed immensely how my skin feels during and after a shave. While the lather i had was always super slick, it was missing something that i never understood.... Cushion. I finally understand it, and boy does it make a difference!

Also, having a brush that i can use to face lather has helped immensely, my unwillingness of face lathering too much, has very likely come from the Yaqi Tuxedo knot i had. While it is super soft, it has too much backbone for me. I was getting irritation even before i got to shaving... That all changed after i got myself a Muhle STF XL. Shout out to @apshaveco for the recommendations when selecting a brush

Thought i'd share, in case anyone is going through the same

 

[Lightcs1776]

I hate to break it to you, but different soaps will require different techniques. However, it sounds like you have broken the secret to two excellent soaps.

 

[Alex Jr]

I was all in for “cushion” one time and that yogurt type of lather. Not anymore.

I don’t want to introduce any air, nada, zero. I load and go directly to painting.

Paint, add a little water if needed, paint a little more and done. Soap and water, no air. Quick, no fuss.

Slick as it can possibly be. That’s all I aim for.

 

[Tonikallinn]

I hate to break it to you, but different soaps will require different techniques. However, it sounds like you have broken the secret to two excellent soaps.

Oh yeah, im sure that different bases work differently when it comes to lathering

I've been wanting to try a few different artisans, though... A&E, Barrister and Mann, Gentleman's Nod.

 

[JCinPA]

@Lightcs1776 is spot on. The difference between soaps is remarkably large. I always start with a lot more product than I think I'll need, add water very slowly, and the second or third lather, I'll keep adding water until it breaks down. You do that just a few times, and you'll understand that particular product, then you can go right in with almost the perfect amount of water, and hit the sweet spot almost immediately.

Some soaps are easy, like the Ethos I just tried. Nailed it in two days. Others, like the old B&M Reserve base are frustrating at first and that one took me two weeks of daily use to dial in. But the experimentation is worth the effort. You'll be able to nail the products you use regularly quickly and reliably every time.

 

[BigJ]

Congratulations!! Great when you finally figure things out!!

 

[Slock]

There are so many ways to get your lather your way. I used to think add water slowly. You don’t want to get too much water in the lather. If you do you can’t, go back but you can always add more water. I found it very easy to go back. If I have too much water just squeeze out the brush. You will waste soap but who here doesn’t have too much soap already.

Also, after I lather up it will look good but I know it could be slicker. I think it’s time to turbocharge this lather. I wet the brush tips and paint in some water. Get the lather nice and slick.

 

[Goatrope]

I was all in for “cushion” one time and that yogurt type of lather. Not anymore.

I don’t want to introduce any air, nada, zero. I load and go directly to painting.

Paint, add a little water if needed, paint a little more and done. Soap and water, no air. Quick, no fuss.

Slick as it can possibly be. That’s all I aim for.

I prefer this lathering method too, but my lathers end up so dense sometimes that it tends to clog up the lather slots & blade gaps on my 3 piece razors so I have to do frequent 'rinse-and-shake' routines to keep them clear and ensure good blade exposure throughout the shave.

I use MWF (tallow) and Haslinger soaps.

 

[Alex Jr]

I prefer this method too, but my lathers end up so dense that it tends to clog up the lather slots & blade gaps on my 3 piece razors so I have to do frequent 'rinse-and-shake' routines to keep them clear and ensure good blade exposure throughout the shave.

I use MWF and Haslinger soaps.

If I load too heavy I get this dense result you’re talking about.

This is why I don’t like the “load more” type of approach as for me it is not the universal answer for every lathering issue.

“Oh but add more water!”. Yeah I could, but now I’m wasting time and soap as half of it will go down the drain.

Try to load less soap and don’t start with a bone dry brush.

I love boars because I can gently shake them and still have plenty of water in.

Try a few variables, I’m sure it’ll click. I load for 10 or 15 seconds tops with a gently shaken boar, paint it for 15s more and I’m done.

Slick slick slick…

 

[Goatrope]

Thanks @Alex Jr. I'm guessing another part of my problem is that I may be trying to take too many strokes between razor rinses, thus, loading up the razor with too much scraped lather at once.

 

[dmshaver]

It sure is nice when you build your lather & you get it spot on! Congratulations & enjoy your shaves!

 

[Tonikallinn]

I hate to break it to you, but different soaps will require different techniques. However, it sounds like you have broken the secret to two excellent soaps.

Back to this, after trying Noble Otter a few more times... I'm kind of still in the same thought process, but it seems like the NO soap needs wayyy less water.

Lathering Stirling: Flick brush twice, load somewhere around 7-10 seconds, start working the lather a decent amount, then add water 2-3 times by wetting the entire brush, and work until thick

Noble otter: Flick brush twice, load somewhere around 7-10 seconds, start working the lather a decent amount, then add just a little bit of water, wetting my hand and sprinkling the little bit of water on the brush, lightly work it in (gets thick quickly) and done.

I heard that NO soaps needed more water compared to Stirling, but doesnt seem to be that way in my experience. The NO lather feels very creamy when i start working it, and adding too much water ruins it IMO. Seems like NO is better in a hurry

 

[zanxion]

@Tonikallinn , For me, these two are the golden rules for successful lathering:
Foolproof Lather Discovery Process (TM) for any soap
Foolproof Lather Discovery Process (TM) for any soap (part 2)
This is what I do on my first go with a new to me soap, and from there on I know exactly how much water and wimping I must dial in to get the lather to the qualities I like.
The only time this failed me was with a non-lathering cream my son gifted to me. I never new that such creams existed and I did not bother reading the label on the jar either.
(I was wimping it like mad till the poor old boar brush I had back then got badly damaged.)

 

[SparkyLB]

I don’t want to introduce any air, nada, zero. I load and go directly to painting.

Paint, add a little water if needed, paint a little more and done. Soap and water, no air. Quick, no fuss.

Slick as it can possibly be. That’s all I aim for.

Agreed. I start lathering my face, and run the brush under a rivulet of hot water, and work that into the existing foam. I half expected the water would dilute the lather, but if you use enough soap, the water actually tightens it up a bit. It know it's ready when my entire face feels warm from the lather. The tightness of the foam, and the water it retains holds on to the heat.

 

[tejolot3]

I always start with a lot more product than I think I'll need, add water very slowly, and the second or third lather, I'll keep adding water until it breaks down ... the experimentation is worth the effort.

As they say: more product, more water, more time. The OP was missing the third "more" in that adage.

Yes, once you've figured out the proper hydration for that particular soap, then you can drop the amounts back down—product, water, and/or time—as appropriate.

 

[Lane101]

I hate to break it to you, but different soaps will require different techniques. However, it sounds like you have broken the secret to two excellent soaps.

@Tonikallinn , Lightcs1776 is absolutely right. See the thread linked below with posts from many fellow B&Bers on this topic. I've learned to tailor my lathering method to the various types of soaps and creams that I use.

Also YMMV based on personal preferences. Glad to see you found an approach that works well for you with your current soaps!

Can Great Lather be Generated from Any Reasonable Quality Shaving Soap or Cream?

At their core most shaving soaps and creams consist of saponified fatty acids. Can any reasonable quality shaving soap or cream generate great lather with the right technique? Over the past two years I've added a number of good commercial shaving soaps and creams to my rotation. This rotation...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[The Blackadder]

I was all in for “cushion” one time and that yogurt type of lather. Not anymore.

I don’t want to introduce any air, nada, zero. I load and go directly to painting.

Paint, add a little water if needed, paint a little more and done. Soap and water, no air. Quick, no fuss.

Slick as it can possibly be. That’s all I aim for.

If I load too heavy I get this dense result you’re talking about.

This is why I don’t like the “load more” type of approach as for me it is not the universal answer for every lathering issue.

“Oh but add more water!”. Yeah I could, but now I’m wasting time and soap as half of it will go down the drain.

Try to load less soap and don’t start with a bone dry brush.

I love boars because I can gently shake them and still have plenty of water in.

Try a few variables, I’m sure it’ll click. I load for 10 or 15 seconds tops with a gently shaken boar, paint it for 15s more and I’m done.

Slick slick slick…

Is your method similar to the one Ken Surfs uses? I’m intrigued by it, I think is one of the few guys (if not the only one) who does not scrub to get volume. Just a couple of swirls on the soap and right to painting

 

[Alex Jr]

Is your method similar to the one Ken Surfs uses? I’m intrigued by it, I think is one of the few guys (if not the only one) who does not scrub to get volume. Just a couple of swirls on the soap and right to painting

Yep, basically this.

Load (maybe a little more), paint, adjust water if needed, paint again, done. 30 seconds.

And the first time I saw him lathering I thought “this guy doesn’t lather, he’s crazy!”

Wrong. I was crazy, shaving with aired soap. For me, the more air you introduce the less slick it gets.

Have you ever shaved with a so called “perfect” lather but after one stroke the skin underneath it seemed not properly wet or slick?

That was my turning point. I thought this is not it.

The moment I stopped swirling that damn thing it suddenly clicked. It’s soap and water ONLY, no air.

 

[Quaznoid]

Soap is soap. I get great lather with bath soap. And slick is where it’s at.

 

[nav]

I've made quite a few posts there, getting opinions on what i've been doing wrong when lathering. It started from using too little soap, to using to little water, and so on.

I followed a lot of different advice, making sure there are no bubbles, make sure theres a nice sheen to the lather, trying out a few different lather consistencies... I tried a whole lot of stuff, and got varying results. As in, sometimes a certain way to lather worked great for me, most times not

I finally cracked it... confirmed with 2 different soap bases and blades.

After trying a Noble Otter soap, i found that i got way less irritation compared to Stirling soaps. Like, way way less, close to none if any. I'm sure that some extra ingredients in the Noble Otter soap do help, someone i asked thought it might be the clay in the NO soap.

The NO soap also lathers up faster/easier than the Stirling, so i thought to myself to try lathering the Stirling soaps for longer. Sure enough, while adding a bunch of water, as i usually do, i keep working the lather until it becomes very thick. It has changed immensely how my skin feels during and after a shave. While the lather i had was always super slick, it was missing something that i never understood.... Cushion. I finally understand it, and boy does it make a difference!

Also, having a brush that i can use to face lather has helped immensely, my unwillingness of face lathering too much, has very likely come from the Yaqi Tuxedo knot i had. While it is super soft, it has too much backbone for me. I was getting irritation even before i got to shaving... That all changed after i got myself a Muhle STF XL. Shout out to @apshaveco for the recommendations when selecting a brush

Thought i'd share, in case anyone is going through the same

Superb!
I can relate to each and every point you've made in your post!

I switched to bowl lathering about 2 months ago due to face lathering brush irritation and it's been great!

However, the lather density (therefore, skin cushion) was still a variable until a few days ago when i really just kept working the brush in the bowl to the point where the lather would thicken up and not fall off the brush at all.

Also, if you're enjoying the softness of the muhle STF, you can also consider the Oumo ST-2, which is the softest knot I've ever used!