My first hone

[TheBeast]

So, the problem with these razors, the spine is poorly ground. Note how the spine dives down toward the edge over the heel and is more than twice as low over the stabilizer, distance between the blue and red lines.

When the distance (edge of the spine to the bevel) changes like this, the angle also changes because the distance from the edge of the spine and the bevel, dictate the bevel angle. This is the source of your double bevel at the heel.

When you hone over the wonky spine or stabilizer it lifts the bevel off the stone. Adding more pressure trying to force the heel on the stone, is the cause of the frown and heel hook, (Red Arrow), not the flatness of the stone. You must repair the frown or you will make the heel hook sharper, literally into a hook. As it is now it will cut you. The edge must be straight or smiling, never a frown.

You have two choices, reshape the heel to move the heel corner well forward of the stabilizer, (Red circle) and the spine where it begins to curve down (Green arrow). Green line is where the new heel corner will end well forward of the curved spine and take the stabilizer completely out of play.

Or grind the spine and stabilizer flat and to the same angle as the rest of the bevel, as in the video. It is a lot of work and will look terrible. You see many old razors with this problem where they are massively ground, a simple heel correction would have eliminated the issue and saved lots or good steel.

You can tell this is the problem, because when you did the 2 layer of tape test avoiding the spine over the heel, almost all of the rest of the bevel sat flat on the stone and cut a nice straight, flat bevel.

It is an easy fix, go the HEEL CORRECTION – REPROFILING thread, in the honing forum for a photo tutorial. Use a diamond plate, Carborundum Silicon Carbide Stone or a piece of 220 wet and dry glued to a piece of glass. It will take you about 5 minutes. After which the razor should sit flat on the hone, avoid the stabilizer and wonky spine and hone normally.

Also, when using tape, learn to feel when you burn through the tape, it will feel slightly sticky on the stone, and you may see bits of tape on the hone. Once you burn through the tape you change the angle defeating using tape.

If you correct the heel, you will be able to easily hone the razor.

View attachment 1498003

Thanks for the effort, Brad. Thanks to all of you. I will find a tool to correct the heel and move it forward. As I understand it, I don't have to care about anything while doing so, right? I've read the Heel Correction post and it seems like I can grind some steel off in any way I see fit. I don't have lots of tools so I will improvise, following the sketch you provided Brad. I'll share some pictures of the process or when it's done. See you then.

 

[TheBeast]

So, here's the heel reprofiled, now back to the bevel.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Looks better, but you can take a bit more to move the corner further away, so you are honing on the straight part of the spine, Green Arrow, follow the Green line to the edge, to see where the new corner needs to be.

This will allow you to hone the edge without the wonky spine or stabilizer affecting the edge and hone the corner so it can be used to shave with.

The edge could be a little straighter, (a bit of frown Blue Arrow).

Are the bevels meeting fully, no shiny reflections when you look straight down on the edge?

If the bevels are meeting fully, it may be good enough to sit flat on the hone. That spine sure took a beating, better to learn these lessons on a $20 beater.

The steel is thin and grinds easily. What did you use to grind it?

 

[TheBeast]

Looks better, but you can take a bit more to move the corner further away, so you are honing on the straight part of the spine, Green Arrow, follow the Green line to the edge, to see where the new corner needs to be.

This will allow you to hone the edge without the wonky spine or stabilizer affecting the edge and hone the corner so it can be used to shave with.

The edge could be a little straighter, (a bit of frown Blue Arrow).

Are the bevels meeting fully, no shiny reflections when you look straight down on the edge?

If the bevels are meeting fully, it may be good enough to sit flat on the hone. That spine sure took a beating, better to learn these lessons on a $20 beater.

The steel is thin and grinds easily. What did you use to grind it?

View attachment 1498417

There is a reflection on the edge, so the bevels are not meeting.

To grind the heel I used some grinding wheel I found in the garage and I attached it to my father's electric drill. That did the heavy lifting and I finished it on the 320 grit sandpaper sticked to a piece of marble tile that I use to flatten the stones with.

No problems with taking some more material off, but I don't quite understand your sketch. The green line that's intersecting both the spine and the edge (vertical) seems to mark the current corner.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

It is close but if the corner is keeping the heel off the stone removing a bit more around the corner, rounding it off will help.

If you see shiny reflection the bevels are not meeting yet, not unusual after making edge correction. Some heel leading strokes to bring the heel around more and remove a bit more material at the heel.

Try using the bottom of the 1k or the edges, to blend the heel, so you do not gouge the stone face, if you need to remove more off the corner or smooth it out.

Inking the bevels will also help you see where you are making contact and where you need more work. I like colored ink, you can see it on the bevel easily without magnification.

I think you are really close, so take your time getting the bevels to meet, using smooth strokes, the rest is just polishing.

Close

Fully set

 

[TheBeast]

Today the edge started to shave my leg hair easily, I have a Nice clean area shaved off on my upper thigh.

However, I Can still see reflections, just like in the "close" picture above, so the bevel is not fully set.

I moved the corner further away from the stabilizer. The frown appears larger when I hone so I am still moving that corner. I was losing hope today I set raised the burr on both sides after 200 laps on each side and when I switched to alternating strokes and eased on the Pressure until I was on the weight of the razor, it still didn't shave. The reflections on the edge got better and after few laps worse again.

I will keep at it but I have had enough for now and I'm starting to feel frustrated.

 

[TheBeast]

So, it didn't let me sleap and after another session I am frustrated even more. It feels like reaching to the Gehenna to find that bevel. It's one step forward, two Steps back.

The burr is much easier to raise - about 100 laps. After I raised it on both sides and did about 50 alternating light laps I still didn't get nothing.

The frown reappeared - a few mlimiters of the edge by the heel keep sticking out even if I grind it off when reshaping the heel.

The razor stopped leaving a Dark smudge Near the corner of the Stone and is leaving much of it looking like freshly lapped. That I consider to be a little win, seems like I burned through the unevennes that was towards the heel.

The spine has ungodly amount of wear and the distance between the spine and the edge shortened visibly. I am afraid I will never get the bevel now. I am deeply frustrated and I feel like I have failed miserably and thrown away 500$ for nothing (honing gear which I clearly can't use).

I will clear my head throughout the weekend. Aby thoughts and pointers will be appreciated, thank you.

 

[rbscebu]

I think you should just start again from scratch, preferably with lapping films on an acrylic substrate. This takes the hone flatness out of the equation and ensures a reasonably uniform abrasive particles consistency.

I just had three (two others dropped out) lapping film "students" set a bevel on their SRs that was shavable. They are now refining their edges to shave-ready.

I might start another class on 01 September. Stay tuned.

 

[TheBeast]

I think you should just start again from scratch, preferably with lapping films on an acrylic substrate. This takes the hone flatness out of the equation and ensures a reasonably uniform abrasive particles consistency.

I just had three (two others dropped out) lapping film "students" set a bevel on their SRs that was shavable. They are now refining their edges to shave-ready.

I might start another class on 01 September. Stay tuned.

Sounds like something I could try. Lapping films cost around 7$ for 3 of each grit.

 

[rbscebu]

Sounds like something I could try. Lapping films cost around 7$ for 3 of each grit.

Here are some on AliExpress that are much cheaper. They are the ones I use. I cut each sheet up into three pieces so that I have 21 pieces, three each of 30μm, 12μm, 9μm, 5μm, 3μm, 1μm and 0.3μm (not used).

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005002441383536.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.c56149f5RnFYfE&browser_id=156e8b9536194c39957fc3351d9dbc85&aff_trace_key=&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=0011826b316bbcda32868b107939c41b6a4b0ff216&gclid=&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21AUD%2139.85%2123.92%21%21%21%21%21%402101d8b516596557736358413e1e50%2112000020666612103%21sea&algo_pvid=618fdf8c-144f-4c98-8f29-30f27a34bc8b

You will also need some acrylic sheet, about 75mm x 300mm x 6mm (minimum) thick. This is also available on AliExpress. You may have to cut it down to size.

 

[TheBeast]

Here are some on AliExpress that are much cheaper. They are the ones I use. I cut each sheet up into three pieces so that I have 21 pieces, three each of 30μm, 12μm, 9μm, 5μm, 3μm, 1μm and 0.3μm (not used).

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/1005002441383536.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.c56149f5RnFYfE&browser_id=156e8b9536194c39957fc3351d9dbc85&aff_trace_key=&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=0011826b316bbcda32868b107939c41b6a4b0ff216&gclid=&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21AUD%2139.85%2123.92%21%21%21%21%21%402101d8b516596557736358413e1e50%2112000020666612103%21sea&algo_pvid=618fdf8c-144f-4c98-8f29-30f27a34bc8b

That's a great deal, I think I will order it soon. About the acrylic - should I look for something specific or will any acrylic plate/Board sold online do the Job?

 

[rbscebu]

That's a great deal, I think I will order it soon. About the acrylic - should I look for something specific or will any acrylic plate/Board sold online do the Job?

See my edited post above.

 

[rbscebu]

Here is some acrylic on AliExpress that is suitable (after cutting down to size). This link may not be the cheapest, it is just the first that came up in my search .

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000144761539.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.4bbb75cfV00Yta&browser_id=156e8b9536194c39957fc3351d9dbc85&aff_trace_key=&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=0011826b3e64f02246ffae1ab10e954b7afa74246b&gclid=&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21AUD%216.67%216.67%21%21%21%21%21%402101d8f416596566238006665e9c9d%2110000000440866228%21sea&algo_pvid=ea34256f-dafc-4222-a6be-2117ff68943f

 

[TheBeast]

Here is some acrylic on AliExpress that is suitable (after cutting down to size). This link may not be the cheapest, it is just the first that came up in my search .

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/4000144761539.html?spm=a2g0n.productlist.0.0.4bbb75cfV00Yta&browser_id=156e8b9536194c39957fc3351d9dbc85&aff_trace_key=&aff_platform=msite&m_page_id=0011826b3e64f02246ffae1ab10e954b7afa74246b&gclid=&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21AUD%216.67%216.67%21%21%21%21%21%402101d8f416596566238006665e9c9d%2110000000440866228%21sea&algo_pvid=ea34256f-dafc-4222-a6be-2117ff68943f

Yeah so I Can get the set of films and a plate for aroun 35€, seems Nice as it's cheaper then a single whetstone. Also the plate Can be used to lap my naniwas. I'll get it and follow your course.

 

[rbscebu]

Read the Annex II of the Traditional SR Shaving Instructions for Beginners on how to put a lapping film substrate together.

Traditional Straight Razor Shaving Instructions for Beginners

The attached are instructions for beginners in the gentlemanly art of traditional straight razor shaving. Updated instructions will be posted in this thread as they are developed. To keep this thread reasonably clean and easy to read, please post any comments/suggestions in this thread and ask...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[rbscebu]

Honing with lapping films is a relatively cheap and effective way to learn to hone a SR. Once mastered, it gives you good grounding for honing with whetstones later.

 

[Timeclo]

So, it didn't let me sleap and after another session I am frustrated even more. It feels like reaching to the Gehenna to find that bevel. It's one step forward, two Steps back.

The burr is much easier to raise - about 100 laps. After I raised it on both sides and did about 50 alternating light laps I still didn't get nothing.

The frown reappeared - a few mlimiters of the edge by the heel keep sticking out even if I grind it off when reshaping the heel.

The razor stopped leaving a Dark smudge Near the corner of the Stone and is leaving much of it looking like freshly lapped. That I consider to be a little win, seems like I burned through the unevennes that was towards the heel.

The spine has ungodly amount of wear and the distance between the spine and the edge shortened visibly. I am afraid I will never get the bevel now. I am deeply frustrated and I feel like I have failed miserably and thrown away 500$ for nothing (honing gear which I clearly can't use).

I will clear my head throughout the weekend. Aby thoughts and pointers will be appreciated, thank you.

Hmm. I'm not sure how the frown can reappear after shaving off the heel. Can you share a updated picture with us?

Also, which stone are you using at the moment? If it was me, I'd just focus on the Naniwa 1K until I set the bevel. I do couple tests (lightly dragging the blade across wet thumbnail and shaving my armhair). I read that the bevel may be uneven at times but it may be just a aesthetic thing. If it shaves well, the looks may not matter as much. Hope you get that clean bevel set.

 

[JPO]

So, it didn't let me sleap and after another session I am frustrated even more. It feels like reaching to the Gehenna to find that bevel. It's one step forward, two Steps back.

The burr is much easier to raise - about 100 laps. After I raised it on both sides and did about 50 alternating light laps I still didn't get nothing.

The frown reappeared - a few mlimiters of the edge by the heel keep sticking out even if I grind it off when reshaping the heel.

The razor stopped leaving a Dark smudge Near the corner of the Stone and is leaving much of it looking like freshly lapped. That I consider to be a little win, seems like I burned through the unevennes that was towards the heel.

The spine has ungodly amount of wear and the distance between the spine and the edge shortened visibly. I am afraid I will never get the bevel now. I am deeply frustrated and I feel like I have failed miserably and thrown away 500$ for nothing (honing gear which I clearly can't use).

I will clear my head throughout the weekend. Aby thoughts and pointers will be appreciated, thank you.

"The burr is much easier to raise - about 100 laps. After I raised it on both sides and did about 50 alternating light laps I still didn't get nothing"
When you say you raise a burr, how do you know you have a burr? If you are honing it like you would a knife i think you will have a hard time. You will always raise some burr, but it should be quite subtle. Find a test that work for you.
Stick to one simple stroke. Avoid using half strokes (back and forth strokes) and circles. You can always experiment later with different techniques.
There is nothing wrong with working the bevel on one side at the time, but 100 laps seems a bit much on one side. I find it easier to just use alternating strokes. There might be a burr that develops in some areas of the blade before the rest of the bevel is set. I think it is good practice to cut off that burr (jointing). The goal is to make the two sides of the bevel meet at the same time along the whole length of the blade, or at least close to. You do not want a burr that is bending from side to side and brakes of from fatigue. That will not leave the edge in the best condition for further refinement work.

If you post a youtube clip of how you hone the razor, it is probably much easier for someone to help you out.

 

[TheBeast]

"The burr is much easier to raise - about 100 laps. After I raised it on both sides and did about 50 alternating light laps I still didn't get nothing"
When you say you raise a burr, how do you know you have a burr? If you are honing it like you would a knife i think you will have a hard time. You will always raise some burr, but it should be quite subtle. Find a test that work for you.
Stick to one simple stroke. Avoid using half strokes (back and forth strokes) and circles. You can always experiment later with different techniques.
There is nothing wrong with working the bevel on one side at the time, but 100 laps seems a bit much on one side. I find it easier to just use alternating strokes. There might be a burr that develops in some areas of the blade before the rest of the bevel is set. I think it is good practice to cut off that burr (jointing). The goal is to make the two sides of the bevel meet at the same time along the whole length of the blade, or at least close to. You do not want a burr that is bending from side to side and brakes of from fatigue. That will not leave the edge in the best condition for further refinement work.

If you post a youtube clip of how you hone the razor, it is probably much easier for someone to help you out.

I raise the burr by doing up and Down strokes with the razor on one side. I detect the burr by sliding my finger on the edge, away from the spine. I make sure I feel it along the whole edge.

 

[TheBeast]

Hmm. I'm not sure how the frown can reappear after shaving off the heel. Can you share a updated picture with us?

Also, which stone are you using at the moment? If it was me, I'd just focus on the Naniwa 1K until I set the bevel. I do couple tests (lightly dragging the blade across wet thumbnail and shaving my armhair). I read that the bevel may be uneven at times but it may be just a aesthetic thing. If it shaves well, the looks may not matter as much. Hope you get that clean bevel set.

That's how the razor looks after a session which I stopped because that heel needs attention to remove the frown. Note that before sitting Down and trying to set the bevel, the heel was freshly reprofiled and moved further from the stabilizer.