Mendel's Many Questions

[Mendel]

Greetings from Mendel & Gilligan!

I most recently embarked into the straight razor shaving journey. Oakeshott was kind enough to PIF me a razor to practice shaving and stropping and rockviper has provided wonderful insight thus far. Be that as it may, I do have several pending questions.

Razors:
I do like a full hollow razor with a round tip. The full hollow forces you to have good technique. Moreover, I enjoy the audible feedback. And the rounded tip seems to be safer for a newbie.

I would love to invest in a new 5/8 "Dovo best but they seem to be sold out everywhere.

Question:
What are your thoughts regarding the Ralf Aust 5/8" offered by straightrazordesigns?

Strops:
Leather, linen, and felt. Paddle strops. Hanging strops. It all sounds like a new chapter in the book, 50 Shades of Gray. At the end of the day, I decided to purchase a 3" Big Daddy English Bridle strop with felt fabric. First, it was affordable should I mess it up. Second, the 3" size will initially avoid the need for learning the X stropping pattern.

Questions:
Should I always warm the razor up on the felt (or linen) first before stropping it on the leather?

Does a new "shave ready" well honed razor (by Lynn) also have to be stropped first before my first shave? Before every shave?

What is the ideal number of passes on the fabric and the leather? So many recommendations out there (50, 40, 60, 25...it all sounds like Payton Manning calling audibles at the line of scrimmage.)

Is linen better than felt?

Should you only strop before shaving? (Some resources indicate after shaving, before shaving, before and after...whew!)

Hones, Stones, Pastes, Creams, and Sprays:

Many folks have recommended not to initially invest in a hone. Nevertheless, I am overwhelmed here. Some folks say only get the Norton 4000/8000 hone. Some folks say, you only need the 12000 hone. While others say you need the 4000/8000 and 12000 (the latter for finishing). Others recommend the chromium oxide paste on the strop fabric; that way the razor will not need a hone right away. I've read about X patterns of diamond pastes, the benefits of sprays, the benefits of pastes...help me in getting out of this quagmire of information!

 

[Legion]

Dovo best are not really best. You could do better for the money. Never honed a Ralf Aust, but again, it seems like you could get a pretty nice vintage for the price.

X strokes on a strop are the correct method, and should not be avoided, especially when you are learning. 3" strops are a new invention, like five bladed razors. In some ways they are "easier", but do they work better?

Fabric components are nice, as they clean the blade, but not totally necessary. The leather it the important bit, and yes, you will probably mess your first one up. you need to strop before every shave, and I strop for a bit after, just to ensure the edge is clean.

Hones...

 

[oakeshott]

Mendel,

The following answers are just my own opinions and while they are objectively and universally true for all species and cultures across the universe, they might also be wrong. Proceed with caution.

Don't buy a Dovo. At least not yet. Plenty of time for that later. IMO, you're paying more for looks than performance and your tastes may change after playing around with lots of other straights. I came close to getting one initially and am now glad I spent my $ elsewhere.

You don't need to "warm the razor up". Some people do and some don't. I strop on fabric or suede prior to the leather because it's enjoyable and because of an unproven believe that it removes fine particles from the honing or shaving on the very edge that I don't reach when wiping the blade, but in the beginning it's a nice to do not a need to do. Many people every day get along without this step.

A shave ready razor should come stropped and can go right to the shave. Before all the ensuing shaves, however, it should be stropped again. As for how many laps, again, this is something on which I've not seen any objective testing, but the range typically is between 40 and 60 on leather. I do 40 cotton/60 leather, but that really depends on my mood. Some days I just strop until I drop. IMPORTANT NOTE: If you're a music lover, don't listen to R&B while stropping. There's no way to keep your own rhythm when Marvin Gaye's and Al Green's are so much better.

You've already bought your strop, so advice there is pointless. You have a good product. It'll work just fine. My suggestion is that you should use it after the shave for about 10 or 20 laps just to get residual matter off the very end of the edge. Again, no objective evidence that it makes any difference, but I "feel" that it does. You are free to feel otherwise.

Hones. What can one say here to persuade you to postpone stepping into this rabbit hole. Over the last year and a half, you've discovered that soaps, vintage razors, pens, aftershaves and balms and brushes are not only available in a bewilderingly complex assortment, but at shocking prices as well. Stuff all of that in a box big enough to hold it and then put that box in the one marked "HONING". It will make a dull clunk when it hits the bottom after about a 6 second freefall.

But a man who owns multiples of dachshunds is not a man to be easily stopped, so here goes. Listen to no one else on this thread but me. Get a King 1k for bevel setting and a Norton 4k/8k. Finish on a pasted balsa strop with CrOx and then leather. These stones are not the "best" solution (I no longer use mine), but it's the one that nearly everyone on the board has used and so advice and help are available from many quarters. When you have a problem, it's easily addressed by members and the stones don't really vary in performance because they're synthetics. The price is reasonable and if you decide they're not for you, they can be sold without a problem.

It is something of a relief that you have not also asked about the right equipment for making scales.

 

[Relentless]

The only thing that can possibly be added to the previous posts is that films are a relatively easy and inexpensive way to get into finishing your own edge. Just do a search for lapping film or Seraphim. Here's just one example of what you'll find. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...d-his-darn-lapping-film?p=4936637#post4936637

I am still determined to keep to a natural stone progression; but I have recently tried the lapping films, and to me they were soo easy as to be boring. The edge is undeniable.

 

[Mendel]

Mendel,

The following answers are just my own opinions and while they are objectively and universally true for all species and cultures across the universe, they might also be wrong. Proceed with caution.

Don't buy a Dovo. At least not yet. Plenty of time for that later. IMO, you're paying more for looks than performance and your tastes may change after playing around with lots of other straights. I came close to getting one initially and am now glad I spent my $ elsewhere.

You don't need to "warm the razor up". Some people do and some don't. I strop on fabric or suede prior to the leather because it's enjoyable and because of an unproven believe that it removes fine particles from the honing or shaving on the very edge that I don't reach when wiping the blade, but in the beginning it's a nice to do not a need to do. Many people every day get along without this step.

A shave ready razor should come stropped and can go right to the shave. Before all the ensuing shaves, however, it should be stropped again. As for how many laps, again, this is something on which I've not seen any objective testing, but the range typically is between 40 and 60 on leather. I do 40 cotton/60 leather, but that really depends on my mood. Some days I just strop until I drop. IMPORTANT NOTE: If you're a music lover, don't listen to R&B while stropping. There's no way to keep your own rhythm when Marvin Gaye's and Al Green's are so much better.

You've already bought your strop, so advice there is pointless. You have a good product. It'll work just fine. My suggestion is that you should use it after the shave for about 10 or 20 laps just to get residual matter off the very end of the edge. Again, no objective evidence that it makes any difference, but I "feel" that it does. You are free to feel otherwise.

Hones. What can one say here to persuade you to postpone stepping into this rabbit hole. Over the last year and a half, you've discovered that soaps, vintage razors, pens, aftershaves and balms and brushes are not only available in a bewilderingly complex assortment, but at shocking prices as well. Stuff all of that in a box big enough to hold it and then put that box in the one marked "HONING". It will make a dull clunk when it hits the bottom after about a 6 second freefall.

But a man who owns multiples of dachshunds is not a man to be easily stopped, so here goes. Listen to no one else on this thread but me. Get a King 1k for bevel setting and a Norton 4k/8k. Finish on a pasted balsa strop with CrOx and then leather. These stones are not the "best" solution (I no longer use mine), but it's the one that nearly everyone on the board has used and so advice and help are available from many quarters. When you have a problem, it's easily addressed by members and the stones don't really vary in performance because they're synthetics. The price is reasonable and if you decide they're not for you, they can be sold without a problem.

It is something of a relief that you have not also asked about the right equipment for making scales.

What is the appropriate equipment for making scales?

 

[oakeshott]

What is the appropriate equipment for making scales?

There's a lot of disagreement, but most of us use one of these:

You'll need something much more expensive, however, if you plan to work with Horn.

 

[jrp316]

On the subject of shaving in general, I say this: "Many roads lead to Rome"

Razors: On the subject of the Ralf Aust...if it's a bona fide Solingen made razor, it's probably a good one. On a price point, you could do as good, if not better, with a vintage razor. The brand isn't so much important with vintages...the important part there is to make sure to get one that's shave ready.

Strop: Since you've already got a strop, you're good to go there. The X stroke isn't hard to learn at all though. I have the Big Mama strop from Star Shaving (2.5") and I primarily use the leather component with an X, hardly ever the fabric. I've noticed no difference in shave quality. I always strop before shaving, 40 laps on leather. What's the ideal? The ideal is whatever you find that works and fits your needs. 40 is what I found for myself. Stropping after or during a shave...try it out, see what you think. See if it improves or degrades your shave.

Hones: This by and large is dictated by your goals. Do you only want to keep your existing fleet of razors shave ready? Do you want to buy and fix up eBay straights? Hone for hire? If only to keep your existing fleet shave ready, you can get by with a simple barber's hone (something like a 8k or 12k + stone) and a pasted strop. If you really want to go on the cheap, a 1 micron piece of lapping film on a piece of flat marble works well too. If you're just starting out, I'd recommend a barber's hone of some variety to start out with. If you decide later that you want to fix up razors or hone for hire, you can get the honing kit that you need then.

If you get your razors shave ready to start with, you can get on for a long time with a strop, pasted strop (red and green pastes) and a barber's hone. It mainly depends on what you want to do honing wise.

 

[gash]

Just to reiterate a point that can easily be overlooked: your first razor should be shave-ready when you get it, and you should NOT strop it before your first shave. Strop it before every shave after the first one, unless somebody has just honed it for you, in which case it should be ready to use.

 

[JHP]

Like Mendel, I'm on the hunt for my first straight kit. I appreciate all the advice provided by those with experience. While any one opinion is just that, an opinion, when doing a lot of reading, trends start to emerge and they are helpful.


Can I respectfully question some of the razor selection advice I'm finding? Several in this thread have questioned purchasing a new razor stating directly or implying, "you could do as good, if not better, with a vintage razor". I've perused the BST on this site and others. I don't think it's realistic to find a shave ready straight for much less than $50-70. Perhaps I'm missing something, but that seems to be the general trend. If I go to SRD I can get a Dovo Best for $79.99 that has been professionally honed by a guy who seems to be well regarded for his honing. That price includes a second honing - which he charges $25 for.


If I buy a vintage shave ready razor from the BST, it has been honed by Joe B&B who may (or may not!) be an accomplished honer. That may be fine for those of you with experience, but the honing on my first razor is going to be the gold standard of honing for the near future. If I don't trust his honing skills and send it out for honing I've got at least $30-40 of expense (including shipping). That means I've got to get a razor for substantially less than $40ish for this deal to pay.


A new SRD razor has $50 worth of professional honing included. Maybe we don't like SRD because he runs a competitive board or we disagree with some of what he teaches on his videos, but it doesn't seem like such a bad deal from a cash perspective.


Please tell me where I'm wrong!


Thanks gentlemen!


Josh

 

[temjeito]

There's a lot of disagreement, but most of us use one of these:

You'll need something much more expensive, however, if you plan to work with Horn.

 

[JHP]

I don't think it's realistic to find a shave ready straight for much less than $50-70. Perhaps I'm missing something, but that seems to be the general trend.

I take it back. I forgot about the Whipped Dog sight unseen razors. At $28 the Sight Unseen Flawed Razor might be a great deal. I assume Larry does a good job honing his razors, right?! Hmmm. Maybe this is the way to go. Thoughts?

 

[JHP]

ahhh . . . just stumbled on the thread below and realized I may have offended some people. I apologize. I'm just a guy trying to get a straight! Didn't mean to step into any feuds! Sorry.

Is Lynn Abrams still Honing for Hire ?