Quest for a competent straight shave.

[helicopter]

I did my eighth straight razor shave today. I keep removing variables from the equation, but I just can't seem to get it right.

I have everything: a Feather AC Kamisori shavette, 2 Gold Dollars, 2 professionally honed Dovo 6/8th razors, a vintage Bohemian Boston, an Illinois strop, bench strops, all the diamond plates, synthetic and natural stones I could ever need, a strop made from a dress shirt sleeve, denim for more strops, Flitz, green chrome compound, bench strops.

A few shaves have torn up my skin, and the rest didn't remove a reasonable amount of my beard before throwing in the towell and finishing with a crappy shave or a DE razor.

I am taking my time, minding my angle and going to 30 degrees, stretching skin. Today, I couldn't actually get any part of my face smooth. I was using a sharp professionally honed razor. I used it yesterday, too. No stopping, then stopping. Yesterday was a disaster.

I have watched videos.

Someone said it takes 30 shaves to get competent. Is that a typical experience?

I am not looking for a miracle here, I just want to have a reasonably successful shave with a straight where the success isn't actually achieved when I pick up a Blackbird.

Any idea what I am doing wrong?

Sorry for the ramble. I am lost.

 

[Koop]

Yes, it takes time and repetition. I'm not an expert, but I can get a decent three-pass shave - it took me a couple of months to get comfortable (I shave my face every other day). After some frustration, I concentrated on the easy bits - cheeks between my ears and mouth. Once I got that working, I added under the jaw line and so on. I cleaned up with a DE. I still do a DE clean up pass on parts of my throat and jawline, but it's getting to a point where very little clean up is needed (I'm always chasing BBS). Be patient, it's a steep learning curve and an aquired skill.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I am taking my time, minding my angle and going to 30 degrees

Maybe try going lower. Start with it flat on your face and raise the spine just enough that it's not sticking to the lather. Some guys advocate laying the blade flat on the skin but I could never make that work, myself. Usually, though, if I start very low and adjust to slightly steeper, the most effective angle becomes obvious quickly. And it's usually lower than I anticipate.

Which AC model do you have? The SS will need a little higher angle because of the design.

Also make sure your lather is good and wet.

I also generally use light, short, overlapping strokes. Look up Paulo Barrasso on YT, he's an Italian barber...I learned a lot watching him.

 

[silverlifter]

going to 30 degrees,

This is likely too high. You want the spine closer to the skin.

a sharp professionally honed razor.

Who honed it? Whether it is a professional or not, if they don't shave with a straight, it's unlikely to be shave ready.

I just want to have a reasonably successful shave with a straight where the success isn't actually achieved when I pick up a Blackbird.

View the first dozen shaves as just getting a feel for it and developing some muscle memory. Beard removal will come pretty quickly once you have a decent edge and the technique to use it.

Remember, it's all part of the journey. Enjoy the ride.

 

[Wid]

Start with the blade flat then raise the angle until you hear a sound that sounds like buttering toast. That is your angle. Use light pressure, lighter than you think is necessary.

The Feather is what I’d be using for now. The “shave ready” variable is taken out of the equation.

 

[Wid]

Also, make sure your prep is spot on. Use a thinner lather than when using a DE. A good tallow soap works best for me.

 

[lasta]

I think you got many good advice already.

1. 30 degrees is too steep, even by DE standards. Go shallow, very very shallow.
2. It's hard to achieve and maintain Feather level sharp with a straight. Possible, but not consistently.
3. I think blade coating is one of the biggest innovations in wet shaving, nearly impossible to get equal level smooth with an SR.

Straight shaving is fun and can be rewarding, but you really need to get into the maintenance yourself.

 

[helicopter]

Maybe try going lower. Start with it flat on your face and raise the spine just enough that it's not sticking to the lather. Some guys advocate laying the blade flat on the skin but I could never make that work, myself. Usually, though, if I start very low and adjust to slightly steeper, the most effective angle becomes obvious quickly. And it's usually lower than I anticipate.

Which AC model do you have? The SS will need a little higher angle because of the design.

Also make sure your lather is good and wet.

 

[helicopter]

This is likely too high. You want the spine closer to the skin.


Who honed it? Whether it is a professional or not, if they don't shave with a straight, it's unlikely to be shave ready.


View the first dozen shaves as just getting a feel for it and developing some muscle memory. Beard removal will come pretty quickly once you have a decent edge and the technique to use it.

Remember, it's all part of the journey. Enjoy the ride.

 

[helicopter]

I should have mentioned, I have the benefit of being able to measure sharpness without relying on subjective impressions or old fashioned tricks.

So that is another variable eliminated. Even if I use one I hone myself, I can compare it to a GSG edge, the Feather AC, or any other edge.

 

[helicopter]

I suspect that yesterday I was too shallow and the day before, too steep. The shave nation video I watched last night was way steeper than my shave yesterday. I will play with the angle, working up carefully from more shallow. I may just stick with really we Cremo/soap mixture for now. That is probably the slickets thing I can make. I was thinking 30 degrees because of knife honing, but since my face isn't double beveled, it was probably closer to 15.

Thanks for the tips. I will let you know how it goes.

 

[Saloogie]

Well, I'm not an expert either, but I guess I have about 25 SR shaves under my belt now. Most of my shaves now are very good. BBS or close everytime. Cuts are now much rarer to. But of course it wasn't always that way! I had many really bad shaves, so much so that my wife begged me to stop!

Things got better for me when I lost the fear of a SR. I almost feel as though I had to much respect for the SR. I really feared cutting myself and that hurt my shaves. It took time to get there though, probably longer than you've been at it. I was using really short strokes and it wasn't working. Everytime you lift the razor and then reapply it to your face makes a cut more likely. So now I make long sweeping strokes and it is working much better, not to mention being much quicker.

So I can't offer you much more advice than just keep on shaving. You'll get there. Remember, every man shaved like this at one time, so it's certainly doable for everyone!

 

[Gamma]

I did my eighth straight razor shave today. I keep removing variables from the equation, but I just can't seem to get it right.

Making mistakes is normal, patience is key.

I have everything: a Feather AC Kamisori shavette, 2 Gold Dollars, 2 professionally honed Dovo 6/8th razors, a vintage Bohemian Boston, an Illinois strop, bench strops, all the diamond plates, synthetic and natural stones I could ever need, a strop made from a dress shirt sleeve, denim for more strops, Flitz, green chrome compound, bench strops.

Spending money doesn't guarantee results. Sometimes, the more variables there are, the more issues there are.

A few shaves have torn up my skin, and the rest didn't remove a reasonable amount of my beard before throwing in the towell and finishing with a crappy shave or a DE razor.

I am taking my time, minding my angle and going to 30 degrees, stretching skin. Today, I couldn't actually get any part of my face smooth. I was using a sharp professionally honed razor. I used it yesterday, too. No stopping, then stopping. Yesterday was a disaster.

I have watched videos.

Many 'shaving videos' don't actually show good form. Many of them pass on horrible practices actually. The 30 degree angle thing is sort of antiquated and I don't know if anyone still subscribes to it but I don't. My razor spine usually rides very close to the skin.

Someone said it takes 30 shaves to get competent. Is that a typical experience?

When I started, guys used to say getting to 100 shaves is the beginning of the end of learning the ropes. I'd guess that all depends on the person though.

I am not looking for a miracle here, I just want to have a reasonably successful shave with a straight where the success isn't actually achieved when I pick up a Blackbird.

Any idea what I am doing wrong?

Most likely, you are doing several things wrong. At 8 shaves, that is almost inevitable.

Sorry for the ramble. I am lost.

You might be more impatient than you are lost.

A few things that a lot of new users struggle with are...

1 - lather. Often it is way too thick and that makes the edge drag and the whiskers not want to get cut. DE guys struggle with this usually. This is one of the biggest hurdles for a lot of guys actually.

2 - bad stropping - kills edges. Not all that common really but it does happen.

3 - edge quality. Professionally honed means nothing to me. And even the best honed edge can be jacked up if not stropped correctly. Many vendors provide edges I wouldn't use to open packs of cold cuts. Nuff said.

4 - incorrect use of abrasive compounds. If you don't know what you're doing, Crox and diamond sprays will make more problems than they can ever solve.

5 - sharpness tests - the only test that matters is a shave test. Edges reading well on machines, HHTs, grapes, tomatoes, arm hair, etc - are not guaranteed to shave well. I can make an edge so stupid sharp it'll register off the charts but no one in their right mind will want to shave with it. Feather blades are very sharp usually, but there are many blades I would prefer to use instead. FWIW, I've never used or relied on any edge tests.

6 - Attempting to rely on everything other than skill, practice, and learning. There is a tendency to believe that buying stuff, watching videos, reading posts, using microscopes and other 'scientific machinery", provides results.

The Feather Kamisori - my skin hates the blades for those shanks and I cannot get a decent shave from any Feather or Kai blade in any holder.

 

[Saloogie]

One more thing I forgot to add, take a break!

Sometimes we need to step away from things we're struggling with to clear our head. You're probably pressing yourself to hard at this point and you won't make progress that way. A break will also make you want to shave again instead of of dreading it like you probably are now and then you can make some real progress. Your mind will be fresh and you're much more likely to get a better shave.

I took a break for about a week or so and when I came back I began to get better shaves.

Just a thought.

 

[helicopter]

The stones and bench strops are things I mostly already had for knives, important exception being a Shapton glass 8k, since my finest synthetic sharpening stone was a Naniwa Chosera 3k. I was pretty sure you want something in the 6k range for a razor. I already had a naniwa snow white 12k polishing stone too, but 3k to 12k is a big step and I doubt I need 12k for anything it I am polishing.

The razors I honed myself should be sharp enough to cut hair in theory, but didn't seem to be in practice. They are not as sharp as the Dovos, but also not in a totally different realm.

But I am not using anything I honed myself right now anyway because it is a variable I wanted to eliminate. That's why I got the honed Dovos from GSG.

 

[helicopter]

Well, I'm not an expert either, but I guess I have about 25 SR shaves under my belt now. Most of my shaves now are very good. BBS or close everytime. Cuts are now much rarer to. But of course it wasn't always that way! I had many really bad shaves, so much so that my wife begged me to stop!

Things got better for me when I lost the fear of a SR. I almost feel as though I had to much respect for the SR. I really feared cutting myself and that hurt my shaves. It took time to get there though, probably longer than you've been at it. I was using really short strokes and it wasn't working. Everytime you lift the razor and then reapply it to your face makes a cut more likely. So now I make long sweeping strokes and it is working much better, not to mention being much quicker.

So I can't offer you much more advice than just keep on shaving. You'll get there. Remember, every man shaved like this at one time, so it's certainly doable for everyone!

I think 25 shaves is a very useful perspective. Someone with 10000 may not remember the learning process as well.

 

[helicopter]

There is basically zero possibility that I need to go out an buy anything for sharpening, probably ever.

 

[Seelector]

Eight shaves isn’t much. When I was starting out it took me 8 or 10 shaves until I had something resembling a shave. Before that it was a stubbly mess every time.

There’s lots of good advice above, follow it and don’t expect miracles. There’s a lot of things that have to come together at the same time to get a good shave, and there’s no substitute for experience. Just stick with it, and step back every 5 or so shaves and compare to how it was 5 shaves ago. At some point it all clicks together.

 

[helicopter]

It was much better today. In fact, this ninth shave is the first one that actually got the job done on its own.

Some things to note:

I used very watery lather, so watery, 'milk' might describe it better than 'lather.' I made a lather, then I just added hot water to the mug and mixed it into a drippy white foamy liquid. I am not sure if this actually helped, but I am not changing it.

I followed, as a general rule, the left hand on the left going down, right on left going up, and vise versa guideline. This turned out to be a great starting place for most of the confusing and complicated spots and angles. If I had a problem, I knew to start with trying a different grip on the razor and go from there. It helps to have a process.

I did quite a bit of sliding, and I let a little blood flow from weepers. The advice not to be afraid was very helpful in actually cutting hair. Tough spots of heavy beard are no match for my straight when it is sliding fast against the grain with a little pressure.

I played with angles and found I was too shallow yesterday, but that the angle that cuts hair best us usually still a shallow one, just not that shallow. I was confusing myself with the 30 degree thing, while conceptualizing 15 degrees. It was better not to think about angles in degrees and focus on working up from flat to the shallow angled that worked.

I was less cautious about hitting spots over again. Before I was trying to remove two or three lathers like I was blowing snow. That can work with DE and cartridges. With a straight it was better for me to focus on the stubble itself with a straight.

Thanks for the help. I hope this wasn't a fluke.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I already had a naniwa snow white 12k polishing stone

The Snow White is an 8k but assuming you're talking about the 12k super stone (which is also white), it's a decent razor finisher as far as synths go.

Glad to hear today went better.