Can You Stand Another First SR Shave Thread?!

[Saloogie]

I think you're right about the edge lacking a bit.

My stropping technique has improved quite a bit since I started, but maybe I didn't do enough. I have 2 strops now, a cheapish board which despite its thin leather works reasonable well, and I have a very nice strap which I bought recently. I also have a practice razor that I'm going to practice honing on. I have some stones and I'm going to work on the edge starting with an 8k to a hard Arkansas to a Vermont finishing stone. Hopefully I won't make a mess of it! I hope to do it today, so wish me luck.

My new strop

I'm not familiar with the barbarian grip, but I'm guessing you mean that you hold it like a Japanese Kamasori? I'd say whatever works is good.

 

[duke762]

Outstanding! That strop looks a lot more functional than the board strop.

I had been doing butterfly kisses on restored shell strops which was totally ineffective and caused very short lived edges. I did it wrong for absolutely years, before the light came on. Gamma said in a post once, that he had seen many more under stropped razors than over stropped (if there is such a thing). That finally made the light come on. I was testing a $10 eBay score, used strop, with a terrible draw, and in a fit of frustration, stropped the heck out of the darn razor, thinking I'd most likely destroyed the blasted edge with my aggression. The whole time I'm thinking, who would use a strop with this much draw. Some body must, so I gripped the razor tighter and laid into it. We're talking more pressure than I'd ever used, higher lap count, and a little droop in the strop. Lo and behold, while looking at the edge with a scope, it had improved my edge drastically. Many of my problems were solved by simply learning to strop effectively.

As far as stones go......I'd use the Vermont slate before the Ark (hope this doesn't start an argument). Slates can be quite inconsistent. Ark's have a bit of a learning curve but I would bet my house that the Ark is capable of a much finer finish than the Vermont. There is the question of would you prefer the Vermont edge over the Ark. Horses for courses. I like the Arks because I have to have a skin friendly edge.The Ark edge is only as good as the edge you bring to it. Max out your edge and then hit the Ark. I read somewhere that the Ark edge is only limited by the skill of the user. I am a big Ark fan and feel they are often miss understood.

Do you use any magnification? I use a cheap Carson hand held, microscope and have learned so, so much with it. A lot of the care and feeding of a razor seems to revolve around feel. After 51 years of working with my hands in various factories, I doubt I will ever by able to tell that I'm done stropping, by feel alone. The light came on when I saw an aggressively stropped edge, actually improved enough that it was visible to me. I've even seen the improvement with the fabric component of various strops also. I should have marked that day on the calendar and I should celebrate every year

By the way, big Thank You for becoming a Contributor!

 

[Saloogie]

Thanks @duke762 , glad to be here learning and contributing what I can!

Yes, this new strop is beautiful and it's made quite a difference. I do strop the heck out of my razors, because that's where I see the real sharpness and shave ready edge come out. No matter how much I hone, my edge is only so sharp, but then I strop and bam, the edge really pops and it's shave ready and sharp as a scalpel.

I'll definitely consider trying the Ark as the finisher. I'm open to all ideas as this was only my first full honing, so I have a lot to learn. The Vermont is hard with a glass-like surface, while the Ark I have is a hard Ark, and I can feel just a bit more grit, so I thought it made sense to go with the Vermont as the finisher. I'd love an Ark translucent someday, but a sizeable rock is pretty expensive, so I'll experiment with what I have for a bit. I could actually use some better lower grit stones first, as mine are from a cheap Amazon-like box set. Honestly, they didn't work bad, but I'm sure there's room for improvement there.

I do have magnification in the form of glasses. I forget the magnification power of them, but they do give me a nice closeup of the edge, and yeah, it's pretty revealing! I can easily tell a bad edge from a shave ready one for sure. I would tell anyone interested in this type of shaving to buy some sort of magnification.

Thanks for the great response!

 

[Saloogie]

Wow, what a shave with my newly honed razor!

Very smooth, very close to a BBS. Still having trouble below the nose though. Can't seem to do anything but WTG there. A couple of minor cuts from trying to hard, but it was a darn nice shave!

 

[PintoPlain]

@Saloogie I'm curious if you're shaving with both hands or your dominant hand? Good to hear your shaves are getting better.

If your experience is like mine, you should notice improvements every shave for the first dozen or so shaves and then a spell of no noticeable improvements. That is normal even though it's frustrating. You are simply consolidating your experience and building muscle memory. You will soon start noticing improvement in your shaves again. I found this cycle continued a few times before I stopped noticing improvement over a few shaves.

If I could offer one piece of advice to someone starting straight razor shaving, it would be patience is necessary. It takes practice to get proficient and you can't get practice by reading articles or watching videos.

If I could offer a second piece of advice I would say be careful of complacency. I went over 3 months with barely a nick and thought "yeah, I've got this". SRs can bite if you're not careful and I still have the scar to prove it.

 

[Saloogie]

Thanks for the comment @PintoPlain

Yes, I do use two hands. I'm almost/a little ambidextrous, so I don't have to much of an issue using both hands.

I think I'm almost at that "coasting" phase. My shaves have gotten pretty much the same now. A little improvement, but not much. My tough areas are still my tough areas, but I know with patience it will come. The shaves have gotten better than acceptable, so I'm happy with my progress.

It's a lot to take in. From the razor, how to hold it, the angles, stropping, honing etc, wow, it can be daunting. But I'm loving it, and I'll get there. I'm not sure if I'll ever go back to DE/SE!

 

[duke762]

Holy cow, I never inquired about your Ark. If it's not a Surgical Black or Translucent then it's most likely not a finisher and stick with the Vermont. Sorry about that.

If I could offer one piece of advice to someone starting straight razor shaving, it would be patience is necessary.

Amen to that. I've read that it is difficult to master honing and shaving at the same time so you have your work cut out for you. I did it, but came to the razor party with only knife sharpening skills and and stones I didn't know how to master. My bad habits and assumptions slowed down my progress dramatically.

On the other hand, I've never experienced anyone else's edge, so even my first attempts were pretty much, ....wonderful....I didn't know what I was missing until I started nailing edges I couldn't believe I had created. I know what I wanted and got it periodically but struggled with consistency and edge life. To say stropping came harder for me than honing is an understatement. I did it wrong and ineffectively for a long time which dead ended any progress to razor nirvana. So close and yet so far......

I've found that most, if not all, of my problem areas, difficult areas, all fall easily to a sharper edge.

Keep at it, practice honing frequently (junk razor maybe) , and don't give up!

Sounds like you're off to a good start!

 

[PintoPlain]

I think I'm almost at that "coasting" phase. My shaves have gotten pretty much the same now. A little improvement, but not much. My tough areas are still my tough areas, but I know with patience it will come. The shaves have gotten better than acceptable, so I'm happy with my progress.

That's pretty much what happened to me. I struggled with the chin and jaw line.

Skin stretching helped massively with the jaw line. Just the small shift in location of the skin made getting the angles much easier. The chin took a lot longer to find a way that worked consistently. You're right though when you say it will come.

I also found using both hands was easier to get the correct angles and a suitable grip. I am probably 60/40 right hand dominant and have tried only using one hand. Both using only my right hand and only using my left. Some tasks I just find easier left handed. My experience was getting angles and finding a suitable grip was a lot harder than using both hands. I took the easy route. Many people do only use one hand and do so successfully. I'm not one of them.

 

[Saloogie]

@PintoPlain While I use both hands, I feel as though it's easier for me to use left hand for right side of face and right for left. But I noticed the "proper" way is to go left/left and right/right. I have a harder time doing it that way to get to the bottom of the neck under the ear. I'm working on doin it the proper way though.

And sometimes I actually forget to skin stretch! I have to do better with that because that's where the closest shaves are to be had.

 

[Saloogie]

Holy cow, I never inquired about your Ark. If it's not a Surgical Black or Translucent then it's most likely not a finisher and stick with the Vermont. Sorry about that.


Amen to that. I've read that it is difficult to master honing and shaving at the same time so you have your work cut out for you. I did it, but came to the razor party with only knife sharpening skills and and stones I didn't know how to master. My bad habits and assumptions slowed down my progress dramatically.

On the other hand, I've never experienced anyone else's edge, so even my first attempts were pretty much, ....wonderful....I didn't know what I was missing until I started nailing edges I couldn't believe I had created. I know what I wanted and got it periodically but struggled with consistency and edge life. To say stropping came harder for me than honing is an understatement. I did it wrong and ineffectively for a long time which dead ended any progress to razor nirvana. So close and yet so far......

I've found that most, if not all, of my problem areas, difficult areas, all fall easily to a sharper edge.

Keep at it, practice honing frequently (junk razor maybe) , and don't give up!

Sounds like you're off to a good start!

No worries on the Ark. It's hard, but definitely rougher than the Vermont. I'd like to get a translucent someday, but a decent sized rock is costly, so it'll have to wait for awhile. Besides, I want to master what I have before moving on. I'm going to show patience with honing if it kills me!!!

My first razor was shave ready, so I know what it's supposed to feel like and I can try and replicate it or even do a bit better. My first full honing that I did just yesterday came out great. Very sharp. The razor gave me a very acceptable shave, although i did nick myself up a bit. To sharp? Was my honing to good? Lol

This razor has a 7/8" blade and is bigger and heavier than my other two 5/8" razors. I found it a bit to heavy and unwieldy for me. Maybe I'll get used to it.

 

[PintoPlain]

While I use both hands, I feel as though it's easier for me to use left hand for right side of face and right for left. But I noticed the "proper" way is to go left/left and right/right. I have a harder time doing it that way to get to the bottom of the neck under the ear. I'm working on doin it the proper way though.

And sometimes I actually forget to skin stretch! I have to do better with that because that's where the closest shaves are to be had.

I guess I'm a rebel and just go how I find it easiest. I typically go left hand left cheek and left hand right neck and vice versa, then cross for the second pass. Although this works for me, I would never recommend it to anyone.

Skin stretching is a good habit to get into. Not only does it give a closer shave, but I find it makes the process easier. I could imagine when one gets older and the skin is less elastic it would be more important so starting sooner rather than later is probably best.

 

[Saloogie]

I guess I'm a rebel and just go how I find it easiest. I typically go left hand left cheek and left hand right neck and vice versa, then cross for the second pass. Although this works for me, I would never recommend it to anyone.

I must be a rebel to, because that way works for me as well!

I can't get all the way down my neck close to the ear going same hand, same side. I mean I can, but it's a bit of a stretch. Your way is more comfortable. I'm not sure if others do it your way or not.

 

[Saloogie]

Today was a banner day!

A true BBS with an SR on only 2 passes and some touch-up. It was a great shave, the blade was sharp and smooth and I have zero irritation. And no cuts! Which is good because I have a few small scars from some past not so great shaves. Nothing terrible, they're healing, just nicks basically. They were my fault as I was just trying to hard. But I'm definitely proud of today's shave!

And even better is I honed this razor from 3000 grit up to my Vermont Slate and it was a superb sharp edge.

I really feel like I took a big step forward with this shave today. I won't get overconfident, but I definitely feel as though I passed a mark today. It was/is a steep learning curve, but straight razor shaving is becoming very normal to me now. Thanks for all the help and encouragement fellas!!!

 

[PintoPlain]

I'm sure you'll get many more great SR shaves in the future. Maybe (probably) not tomorrow, but soon. You now know you can get there though.

You'll probably find that the shaves you're getting now are much more consistent, with the occasional wow shave like today. As you improve and consolidate your technique you should find shaves like today get more frequent and they almost become the expectation. When that happens, you'll have to do something spectacular to get the wow shave but might notice the occasional woah shave where it just doesn't work. When this happens, tidy up to a SAS, put the razor away and fix it tomorrow. It's not worth getting irritation chasing a good shave if it's just not working.

And just to reiterate, take care not to get complacent.

 

[Saloogie]

I'm sure you'll get many more great SR shaves in the future. Maybe (probably) not tomorrow, but soon. You now know you can get there though.

You'll probably find that the shaves you're getting now are much more consistent, with the occasional wow shave like today. As you improve and consolidate your technique you should find shaves like today get more frequent and they almost become the expectation. When that happens, you'll have to do something spectacular to get the wow shave but might notice the occasional woah shave where it just doesn't work. When this happens, tidy up to a SAS, put the razor away and fix it tomorrow. It's not worth getting irritation chasing a good shave if it's just not working.

And just to reiterate, take care not to get complacent.

I do tend to chase a bad shave. I sometimes force a BBS even when it's not really there without pain and irritation. That's why I got the cuts and nicks from learning to SR shave. I should have backed away, or finished with a DE, but I would keep trying. I have to stop doing that.

But my biggest fear is I'll never go back to DE/SE shaving! I have a nice collection of razors that are presently going almost unused. I didn't think I was going to love SR shaving as much as I do!

Thanks for the support!

 

[Frank Shaves]

You will not be arrested for using both a straight razor and a DE/SE.

I recently started using my DE when I get up at 5:30 AM and using it has improved my SR shaves. Just tell this to law enforcement when they knock on your door.

 

[Koop]

I get very close shaves with my SR except for a couple of trouble spots. Along the bottom of my jaw bone and my throat between my chin and Adams apple aren't smooth enough for my standards. I always take a clean-up pass with my Henson AL13 to clean up for a BBS finish.

 

[Saloogie]

Good to know that you more experienced SR shavers still have to use a DE every now and then to clean up @Koop and @Frank Shaves.

It's funny, I'm feeling my throat right now and I'm not super pleased. I should have used my DE to finish it!

 

[duke762]

I get very close shaves with my SR except for a couple of trouble spots

When I run into my trouble spots, I get better results with a sharper edge. Yeah, my technique probably stinks, but a sharper edge seems to take over where my technique has most likely failed.

 

[Koop]

When I run into my trouble spots, I get better results with a sharper edge. Yeah, my technique probably stinks, but a sharper edge seems to take over where my technique has most likely failed.

I'm happy that works for you. In my case, troublesome areas have nothing to do with the keeness of my edge, it's all about awkward angles and my obsession with achieving BBS. I have significant scarring on my neck - the result of a radical neck dissection due to cancer. The scar tissue isn't very pliable and easily nicked. I have to work around it.

My point was - I think it's okay to touch up with a DE if chasing BBS is your goal.