Legal Questions about Possible Gun Law Scenarios

[dreadpirate]

I promise to keep this free of politics.

So Maryland is talking about an "assault weapons" ban. Hypothetically, let's say that happens. If you already own one, and let's say it's a 5 round mag varmitter designed for hunting; what are the consequences?

(1) You must give it up? It's confiscated??
(2) You keep it, but can't sell it or use it in state (possible to sell to out of state party)?
(3) You can keep it, but no new purchases?

What happened in (e.g.) CA to gun owners when they enacted their restrictive laws?

And maybe it's just impossible to say.

 

[mretzloff]

Why would you ask a legal question on a public forum? I would suggest consulting a lawyer who is knowledgable about Maryland state law.

 

[Kentos]

I read the New York law would grandfather existing so called "assault" rifles but law abiding citizens would be expected to registered them with the police. Mags would be limited to 8 rounds, and law abiding citizens already in possession of larger ones need to sell them within a year of the law going into effect. I believe they classified an "assault" rifle as one with a pistol grip and I think a removable Mag...but I could be wrong.

You can likely read the upcoming bill somewhere from the Maryland government site.

 

[Rjacklin]

Usually the ban cannot do anything to what you currently own. Hence why everyone goes crazy buying things after an event like what the nation just went through.

 

[FiveOhNine]

(4) Ignore it because its unconstitutional under the 14th Amendment

 

[Mick]

ex post facto is the legal theory you are looking for.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/ex_post_facto

A law cannot be made that makes retroactive former legal behavior illegal then punish for activity that was done before the law was enacted

It would be like making the speed limit 55 and sending all 40 million drivers citations for going over the speed limit before the law was passed.

 

[FiveOhNine]

Hmm, I like that too, but actually what I was referring to was the Privileges or Immunities and due process clauses of the 14th.

"No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States...."

*Edit: In any event, I see a lot of litigation on the horizon.

 

[dreadpirate]

Thanks guys - I feel sort of stupid since I actually have heard of ex post facto. Not to mention that I asked my 15 year old son and even he knows what ex post facto is.

 

[Crixus]

In the case of the new NY laws, is it possible that a citizen who currently owns, and therefore grandfathered in, one of the firearms in question would be prohibited from legally selling it once the law goes into effect? Would it be the actual firearm itself that was grandfathered, or just the legal owner himself on the day the law would go into effect?

It just dawned on me he could probably sell it to someone out of state through one of the online gun brokerages, but he would need a New Yorker with an FFL to do it for him.

 

[gaseousclay]

what concerns me about this so-called ban is its implications for any and all 'semi-auto' firearms. are they talking specifically about cosmetics? so, guns like the AR-15 & the Mini-14? Does this apply to traditional wood-stocked semi-auto rifles? what about semi-auto shotguns?

 

[craig87c]

In the case of the new NY laws, is it possible that a citizen who currently owns, and therefore grandfathered in, one of the firearms in question would be prohibited from legally selling it once the law goes into effect? Would it be the actual firearm itself that was grandfathered, or just the legal owner himself on the day the law would go into effect?

It just dawned on me he could probably sell it to someone out of state through one of the online gun brokerages, but he would need a New Yorker with an FFL to do it for him.

It's usually about the production date. If you have the original proof of purchase proving it was purchased before any law was signed, you're normally in the clear. Same thing with tinted windows in a place that bans/limits them.

what concerns me about this so-called ban is its implications for any and all 'semi-auto' firearms. are they talking specifically about cosmetics? so, guns like the AR-15 & the Mini-14? Does this apply to traditional wood-stocked semi-auto rifles? what about semi-auto shotguns?

Depends on the state/city and the laws/codes/statues enacted. Usually it is a combination of pistol grip, rails, mags, caliber, etc. if your weapon has 2/3/whatever you may own an assault weapon according to your state.

Note: not a lawyer, just know a bit about the subject. Check with someone who has actual authority on the matters before you make any decisions

 

[jpakstis]

Ex Post Facto wouldn't apply because the crime would be an on-going possession of an assault weapon, not possession prior to the effective date of the legislation. To torture the "speeding" analogy, it would be equivalent to pulling someone over for speeding at the moment the speeding law went into effect. All prior speeding was not illegal, but once it became illegal it would a valid stop.

I had to go back and refresh myself on Second Amendment law, but it appears that the application of the 2nd through the 14th has been recent and is still unsettled. Anyway, the federal cases that have applied the 2nd through the 14th have been either blanket firearms bans (McDonald v. Chicago) or de facto bans (like in Ezell v. Chicago, where the local ordinance required citizens to participate in shooting range trainings to obtain a permit yet banned all shooting ranges from the city). So at this point "ignoring the ban because its unconstituational" seems to be an unwise strategy.

 

[_JP_]

The questions brought so far would be individually by each state that choose to pass gun laws . Every state will have different regulations.

 

[cdhumiston]

When this happened in California owners of AR15 type rifles were forced to register them or remove them from the state by sales or transfer of some type. The registration period was short and if you failed to register or remove you became a felon...

 

[Doc4]

So Maryland is talking about an "assault weapons" ban. Hypothetically, let's say that happens. If you already own one, and let's say it's a 5 round mag varmitter designed for hunting; what are the consequences?

(1) You must give it up? It's confiscated??
(2) You keep it, but can't sell it or use it in state (possible to sell to out of state party)?
(3) You can keep it, but no new purchases?

That will depend on the final version of the law passed by the legislature, and since that chick hasn't hatched yet, there's no sense in counting it.

In theory, and subject to any legal/constitutional limitations, the legislature could chose any of those options (or others.) They may chose to ban the purchase/importation of the item, and/or the use of it, and/or the mere possession of it.

But until you know what the actual legislation says after it is enacted, it's all guesswork. Then, the state would start enforcing it, and no doubt there would be legal challenges to the legislation ... and once those challenges work their way through the legal system, then ... then, not now ... will you know the actual legal status of the hypothetical assault-hunting rifle that is hypothetically in your basement as we speak.

 

[JaxJim]

That will depend on the final version of the law passed by the legislature, and since that chick hasn't hatched yet, there's no sense in counting it.

In theory, and subject to any legal/constitutional limitations, the legislature could chose any of those options (or others.) They may chose to ban the purchase/importation of the item, and/or the use of it, and/or the mere possession of it.

But until you know what the actual legislation says after it is enacted, it's all guesswork. Then, the state would start enforcing it, and no doubt there would be legal challenges to the legislation ... and once those challenges work their way through the legal system, then ... then, not now ... will you know the actual legal status of the hypothetical assault-hunting rifle that is hypothetically in your basement as we speak.

+1, and I would add that how quickly challenged legislation would proceed through the courts would vary, also depending on the specifics. Outright confiscation, for example, likely would be addressed relatively swiftly.

 

[FiveOhNine]

I read the Maryland bill and you're not going to like it. Ban for anything they consider an 'assault weapon' (AW), mandatory registration of all existing AWs, need a license to purchase anything (AWs only purchased/registered before 10/30/13.....banned outright after), granted at the discretion of our overlords and much hoop jumping. $100 fee and reapplication every 5 years, etc, etc.

 

[FiveOhNine]

Assault weapon or copycat:
Semiauto centerfire with detachable magazine with any one of the following:
pistol grip
thumb hole stock
folding or telescoping stock
grenade or flare launcher
flash suppressor
forward pistol grip

They cast a wide net so there are several other definitions such as fixed mag > 10 rounds, less than 30 inches (bullpups), etc

 

[luvmysuper]

Thanks for playing guys.

The guidelines for this Firearms and Shooting Sports forum is very clear.
If you have any doubts, go back and read it. Especially the part that says;

What the Shooting Sports and Firearms Forum is NOT;

The Shooting Sports and Firearms Forum is NOT a place to initiate the trade, sale or gifting of any firearms or firearms related accessories. Members involved in this behavior either through post or PM will be removed from B&B.
The Shooting Sports and Firearms Forum is NOT a place to discuss the Second Amendment.
The Shooting Sports and Firearms Forum is NOT the place to discuss the moral, religious, social or other belief systems relating to gun ownership.

As in all things B&B, politics isn't welcome here, and everyone is expected to behave in a gentlemanly fashion.

If you want to discuss various weapons or their use and care - have at it.
If you want to discuss politics and legislation about these weapons, not so much.

If you are truly concerned that current laws proposed are an attack on the second amendment, there are far better choices of venue for you to argue your point than here.

We don't need it, we don't want it, and we won't tolerate it.