Is it all about the finisher?

[strop]

So my honing experiment has cause me to start thinking about all aspects of honing. The big variable in my experiment is the finisher, but how do the intermediate steps affect the edge, beyond the usual issues of replacing scratches with smaller scratches. Does the type of medium matter? If I finish on a jnat, does it matter if I start with Nortons, Shaptons, Arkansas, film, etc. And can I use a coticule as just a finisher after my current 10K Chosera? Or does the process of using the coticule as a single stone ultimately affect the final edge?

 

[Gamma]

It's not all about the finisher.
It's all about the entire process.
It's kinda like a house.
Poorly built foundation - house falls down.
No roof - house sucks to live in.
Good foundation, nice walls and windows - with a secure roof - you have a good home.

Most of the actual 'sharpening' is done prior to 5k.

 

[Seraphim]

My opinion:

#1 most important is getting the bevel set correctly. And I don't care how you do it, it just needs to be set, or everything that comes after will be garbage.

#2 most important feel factor is the finisher

 

[Kentos]

You will get various opinions on this. My opinion is the more consistent you are from bevel set to finisher the better. So if you want the ultimate Naniwa edge, use all a Naniwa. Jnats are a little different as honing with a full nagura progression was not easy to accomplish until Gamma started getting the word out. Prior to that most people just used the Jnat with Tomo nagura after a coti or other progression. People got good edges off of that.However after getting my 4 stone nagura progression and honing on that, I have to say the edges are better. YMMV. At the very most basic level tho, yes the finishing stone will affect the final edge.

 

[global_dev]

My opinion:

#1 most important is getting the bevel set correctly. And I don't care how you do it, it just needs to be set, or everything that comes after will be garbage.

#2 most important feel factor is the finisher

I agree.. making sure the progression of scratch "erasing" occurs

 

[rickboone1]

if it has to be about one thing, it's the bevel. if you don't have that, you have nothing.

 

[global_dev]

if it has to be about one thing, it's the bevel. if you don't have that, you have nothing.

i think that was an assumption on OP's part that wasn't clear. At least that was what i thought.

It did take me a while to wrap my head around that since i never had sharpened knives or razors before, but let this be a lesson to all new honers

BEVEL is #1 important, no finisher can make up for bad bevel. But it doesn't end there.

 

[Doc226]

I think the most important part for the feel is the finisher-having said that I have taken naniwa and film edges to a JNAT and have gotten a nice edge BUT not as nice as when I do a full nagura progression.

The edges feel smoother with a full nagura progression.

 

[strop]

Jnats are a little different as honing with a full nagura progression was not easy to accomplish until Gamma started getting the word out. Prior to that most people just used the Jnat with Tomo nagura after a coti or other progression. People got good edges off of that.However after getting my 4 stone nagura progression and honing on that, I have to say the edges are better. YMMV. At the very most basic level tho, yes the finishing stone will affect the final edge.

i think that was an assumption on OP's part that wasn't clear.

Correct. I wasn't clear on that part.

I think the most important part for the feel is the finisher-having said that I have taken naniwa and film edges to a JNAT and have gotten a nice edge BUT not as nice as when I do a full nagura progression.

The edges feel smoother with a full nagura progression.

Sorry. I was making the assumption that bevel was correct, and that the progression was thorough.

I'm trying to wrap my head around the jnat progression thing. Is it correct to say that, in essence, you're varying the "grit" of the jnat "coarse" to "fine" by using different nagura stones? So it's still a 1 stone deal but with different prep stones. And essentially you accomplish the same thing with serial dilutions on the coticule?

 

[Kentos]

IMO the main difference between coticule slurry and Jnat nagura slurry is the nagura slurry breaks downs over time so it self polishes out its own scratches in a way. The garnets in coticule slurry don't break down much so you dilute it to lessen the abrasiveness, and overtime the bevel is refined.

So yes similar to a coti you build a slurry of varying abrasiveness on the same hone as you slowly go from bevel setting to final edge. My Jnat edges lack the mirror polish of synthetics, and instead have a hazy polished look, and are very keen.