Absolutely. Timeless SS .68 SB with a Polsilver or Wizamet blade or a Personna Red. The Timeless .68 has a neutral blade exposure so it is easy on my face even if my technique is a little off that day. The blades I mentioned are not the very sharpest blades but they are plenty sharp enough and feel very smooth to my skin. I think if I tried to shave for BBS with a blade that feels rougher on my skin like an Astra SP, I wouldn't try for BBS. It would cause to much irritation.
Is BBS "a chase" for you?
- Thread starter DaveHStone
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #62
Good point and I agree - if it feels rough, it'll most likely result in a rough shave. When I think about it, I don't think I've ever had a great shave with a blade/razor that didn't feel right.
With a very slick soap I can get there without irritation. It just takes a lot of cleanup due to some wild whiskers that I have here and there.
- Thread starter
- #64
I believe genetics and age play significant roles here.
Some folks have light growth and thin facial hair, so it's never an issue. That's genes.
With age however, the skin gets more sensitive as it loses some of its vitality and the hair gets (substantially) tougher. When I was in college, I used to shave in the shower, more precisely UNDER the shower, with just water running over my face. Sometimes I'd use Gillette canned goo, but not always. Cartridge was a given. Today, I could not do that, I'd massacre my face.
IMHO, slickness, residual slickness and those ingredients that make the whiskers soften and keep the skin moisturized throughout the shave are invaluable, if one is aiming for the irritation-free BBS.
This is actually a great question because one's approach to the shave is what determines everything else.
In reading and enjoying this forum I gather some people are shaving enthusiasts for the soaps or creams, for brushes, for razors, for all the trappings combined, for the overall experience, for the tradition or ritual, and so on and so forth. And everyone's approach contributes to our common knowledge base here on this wonderful forum.
Personally, my avocation is to achieve the absolute best shave possible. To come the closest humanly possible to the perfect shave. Why? Because of I am going to do anything I am going to make a sincere and prolonged effort to do the absolute best job possible. As a Scottish friend always says with a shrug, "it's just my nature".
And shaving is something that daily rewards continually improving skill, widening expirementation and experience within the confines of a single pursuit. We're always getting better and therefore we're always finding new things to incorporate, which constantly expands horizons whilst sort of condensing our expertise. And hopefully wisdom.
So my pursuit is perfection. Now I'm not so foolish as to think I will ever achieve it. But I am fortunate to enjoy something brushing up against perfection. And something always getting closer to perfection. Something pushing towards it, the drive.
Salvador Dali said "do not be alarmed by perfection, you will never attain it".
Picasso said "you can spend your entire life trying to draw a perfect circle, but it will never be perfect. The way it deviates from perfection is your stigma. But your stigma is also your talent".
Anyway, a simple comparison and one I can very much relate to is that of a car or maybe motorcycle racer going around the same track over and over. Each time trying to further perfect from the last one. To get it just a little more perfect each time. Even after developing genuine skill, no lap in its entirety is ever perfect. Over thousands of laps one will have achieved near perfection in one curve or area, and on another lap in another area of the track. The compendium of the experience will be near perfection, or possibly reasonable perfection, through the track. But within each individual lap there is deviation, altering the perception or sensation relative to the achievement of perfection.
In short, I've achieved perfect BBS in each area of my face. I have even achieved overall BBS many times. I'm grateful I can.
I should say that my definition and expectations regarding BBS are very strict and my standards very high. I need a true glass finish coast to coast and I need it to be long lasting, as in the next day little stubble peeking out and quite afraid to do so. I also need the stubble to be peeking out relatively uniformly, not in disordered patches. And I need to have achieved that with next to zero irritation.
The pursuit of this requires something of a monetary investment, as well as a time investment not to mention an intellectual and emotional investment.
An economic investment because it takes some money to buy the stuff necessary for experimentation. Razors, soaps, blades, maybe hones, maybe brushes, and have the luxury of moving from what doesn't work to what works better. And that process of elimination requires buying some equipment/tools or what have you.
It requires an intellectual investment because you have to apply yourself and direct your intellect towards this process of refinement. Objectively determining what works, letting go of what doesn't, and moving things in a successful direction. This can only be determined by one's own mind, much like writing a good book.
It is an emotional investment because one gets attached to good results and if one doesn't achieve them one becomes disillusioned. Therefore a large part of the pursuit of perfection is working within one's own emotional framework and understanding the most mature and least ego driven approach.
I believe that straight razors are most capable of coming closest to perfection. Kamisori first and foremost. Not coincidentally because the philosophy behind them mirrors the above, and the individual who crafted it has an approach that mirrors the above, at least approximately, in my opinion. These give me near 24 hr bbs and the stubble grows back uniformly across my face.
Second closest to perfection would be western straights. They're good but are degraded somewhat by the industrial processes that create them and therefore the results are less conclusive. Just my feeling. The steel isn't as good, it's not truly handmade by someone striving for perfection the way Ideally a Japanese bladesmith is. Totally different approach. One philosophically driven, the other made specifically to financially profit.
I don't believe that a safety razor and their blades are by definition designed to achieve perfection, or a nirvana like state that results from human enlightenment or the striving towards wisdom. Rather, they were designed to be mass produced, convenient and, conveniently, to make money for modern industrialists. You're not necessarily going to get unique results from a mass produced tool any more than you're going to get an enlightened buzz from rotgut wine. But you can have fun! Especially when that's what most handy.
A "perfect" Kamisori shave takes me 30 minutes. A great straight shave takes me 20 minutes. And a BBS de shave take me less than 10. That's after years of experience directed by the pursuit of perfection
I don't think that every razor or blade is capable of a BBS shave by my definition. I got one a few days ago from my $5 Lord for experiment sake. But it didn't last, took forever, and wasn't worth it. It's just too mild. Totally adequate though.
My FOCS definitely facilitates my pursuit of perfection. Paired with the right blade the results are astounding. It's the only razor that approaches a straight shave for me.
My several Gilettes and the trusty Progress are great as well.
I've been through a bazillion blades and the only stainless blade that gives me nirvana is Kai. But Kai are vastly exceeded by 5¢ Treet Black Beauties. It took some money and some grief to land on this, but thankfully I did. Casting out preconceptions was step one.
Then, having landed upon productive razors and blades, with smooth and natural results, ironically I found soaps and creams the biggest obstacles of all. But that's results telling me this. Thin, slick product hand lathered. No whipped cream, no scents, the bare minimum. Thankfully this suits my style perfectly. And the proof is in the pudding.
Speaking of preconceptions, here we are in the postmodern world surrounded by trinkets dangling before us and mentally assaulted by mountains of information, opinions, and pure nonsense. This is a real obstacle to our pursuit of perfection, of the striving toward enlightment, and achieving great results. The endless distractions and disempowerment dissuade us if we let it.
To paraphrase one of my favorite authors "this modern world doesn't want you to write a great novel. This modern world wants you to drag your garbage to the curb. Stand in line. Numb your mind."
All this said, I typically use a DE and disposable blades for convenience and time sake. Lowering my expectations regarding absolute perfection, I work within what I've got and strive to always improve, always learn, and remain humble whilst I climb the mountain.
I do 3 passes and buff the rest away. As it's becoming luxurious bbs I keep buffing until finally "time's up!" wherever I am so I put the razor down and walk away. On with my day, with a touch more clarity and the enlightment that results from a great shave and the time spent doing it.
Quality shaving is a wonderful avocation. And I'm grateful for the collective experience here.
Ask not what your shaves can do for you but what you can do for your shaves!
In reading and enjoying this forum I gather some people are shaving enthusiasts for the soaps or creams, for brushes, for razors, for all the trappings combined, for the overall experience, for the tradition or ritual, and so on and so forth. And everyone's approach contributes to our common knowledge base here on this wonderful forum.
Personally, my avocation is to achieve the absolute best shave possible. To come the closest humanly possible to the perfect shave. Why? Because of I am going to do anything I am going to make a sincere and prolonged effort to do the absolute best job possible. As a Scottish friend always says with a shrug, "it's just my nature".
And shaving is something that daily rewards continually improving skill, widening expirementation and experience within the confines of a single pursuit. We're always getting better and therefore we're always finding new things to incorporate, which constantly expands horizons whilst sort of condensing our expertise. And hopefully wisdom.
So my pursuit is perfection. Now I'm not so foolish as to think I will ever achieve it. But I am fortunate to enjoy something brushing up against perfection. And something always getting closer to perfection. Something pushing towards it, the drive.
Salvador Dali said "do not be alarmed by perfection, you will never attain it".
Picasso said "you can spend your entire life trying to draw a perfect circle, but it will never be perfect. The way it deviates from perfection is your stigma. But your stigma is also your talent".
Anyway, a simple comparison and one I can very much relate to is that of a car or maybe motorcycle racer going around the same track over and over. Each time trying to further perfect from the last one. To get it just a little more perfect each time. Even after developing genuine skill, no lap in its entirety is ever perfect. Over thousands of laps one will have achieved near perfection in one curve or area, and on another lap in another area of the track. The compendium of the experience will be near perfection, or possibly reasonable perfection, through the track. But within each individual lap there is deviation, altering the perception or sensation relative to the achievement of perfection.
In short, I've achieved perfect BBS in each area of my face. I have even achieved overall BBS many times. I'm grateful I can.
I should say that my definition and expectations regarding BBS are very strict and my standards very high. I need a true glass finish coast to coast and I need it to be long lasting, as in the next day little stubble peeking out and quite afraid to do so. I also need the stubble to be peeking out relatively uniformly, not in disordered patches. And I need to have achieved that with next to zero irritation.
The pursuit of this requires something of a monetary investment, as well as a time investment not to mention an intellectual and emotional investment.
An economic investment because it takes some money to buy the stuff necessary for experimentation. Razors, soaps, blades, maybe hones, maybe brushes, and have the luxury of moving from what doesn't work to what works better. And that process of elimination requires buying some equipment/tools or what have you.
It requires an intellectual investment because you have to apply yourself and direct your intellect towards this process of refinement. Objectively determining what works, letting go of what doesn't, and moving things in a successful direction. This can only be determined by one's own mind, much like writing a good book.
It is an emotional investment because one gets attached to good results and if one doesn't achieve them one becomes disillusioned. Therefore a large part of the pursuit of perfection is working within one's own emotional framework and understanding the most mature and least ego driven approach.
I believe that straight razors are most capable of coming closest to perfection. Kamisori first and foremost. Not coincidentally because the philosophy behind them mirrors the above, and the individual who crafted it has an approach that mirrors the above, at least approximately, in my opinion. These give me near 24 hr bbs and the stubble grows back uniformly across my face.
Second closest to perfection would be western straights. They're good but are degraded somewhat by the industrial processes that create them and therefore the results are less conclusive. Just my feeling. The steel isn't as good, it's not truly handmade by someone striving for perfection the way Ideally a Japanese bladesmith is. Totally different approach. One philosophically driven, the other made specifically to financially profit.
I don't believe that a safety razor and their blades are by definition designed to achieve perfection, or a nirvana like state that results from human enlightenment or the striving towards wisdom. Rather, they were designed to be mass produced, convenient and, conveniently, to make money for modern industrialists. You're not necessarily going to get unique results from a mass produced tool any more than you're going to get an enlightened buzz from rotgut wine. But you can have fun! Especially when that's what most handy.
A "perfect" Kamisori shave takes me 30 minutes. A great straight shave takes me 20 minutes. And a BBS de shave take me less than 10. That's after years of experience directed by the pursuit of perfection
I don't think that every razor or blade is capable of a BBS shave by my definition. I got one a few days ago from my $5 Lord for experiment sake. But it didn't last, took forever, and wasn't worth it. It's just too mild. Totally adequate though.
My FOCS definitely facilitates my pursuit of perfection. Paired with the right blade the results are astounding. It's the only razor that approaches a straight shave for me.
My several Gilettes and the trusty Progress are great as well.
I've been through a bazillion blades and the only stainless blade that gives me nirvana is Kai. But Kai are vastly exceeded by 5¢ Treet Black Beauties. It took some money and some grief to land on this, but thankfully I did. Casting out preconceptions was step one.
Then, having landed upon productive razors and blades, with smooth and natural results, ironically I found soaps and creams the biggest obstacles of all. But that's results telling me this. Thin, slick product hand lathered. No whipped cream, no scents, the bare minimum. Thankfully this suits my style perfectly. And the proof is in the pudding.
Speaking of preconceptions, here we are in the postmodern world surrounded by trinkets dangling before us and mentally assaulted by mountains of information, opinions, and pure nonsense. This is a real obstacle to our pursuit of perfection, of the striving toward enlightment, and achieving great results. The endless distractions and disempowerment dissuade us if we let it.
To paraphrase one of my favorite authors "this modern world doesn't want you to write a great novel. This modern world wants you to drag your garbage to the curb. Stand in line. Numb your mind."
All this said, I typically use a DE and disposable blades for convenience and time sake. Lowering my expectations regarding absolute perfection, I work within what I've got and strive to always improve, always learn, and remain humble whilst I climb the mountain.
I do 3 passes and buff the rest away. As it's becoming luxurious bbs I keep buffing until finally "time's up!" wherever I am so I put the razor down and walk away. On with my day, with a touch more clarity and the enlightment that results from a great shave and the time spent doing it.
Quality shaving is a wonderful avocation. And I'm grateful for the collective experience here.
Ask not what your shaves can do for you but what you can do for your shaves!
I think there needs to be a third choice. As indicated in my post above, it is not easy for me to get a true BBS result. However, when I do get a BBS, it is predominantly because my whiskers are behaving that day and all the stars align to give me that BBS. So (a) a BBS is not easy for me to get, and (b) I dont need to drive myself to irritation and a facial massacre to get one. So I can not chose either response. My response would be that "I aim for a BBS on every shave, employing proper prep and technique, and get one every now and then without irritation." 
I think there needs to be a third choice. As indicated in my post above, it is not easy for me to get a true BBS result. However, when I do get a BBS, it is predominantly because my whiskers are behaving that day and all the stars align to give me that BBS. So (a) a BBS is not easy for me to get, and (b) I dont need to drive myself to irritation and a facial massacre to get one. So I can not chose either response. My response would be that "I aim for a BBS on every shave, employing proper prep and technique, and get one every now and then without irritation."
There should also be an additional option for those who no longer chase BBS: "It is what it is".
- Thread starter
- #68
Respectfully David, let's not insist on what should be added to my thread. Firstly, as you know, it is not possible to modify it now.There should also be an additional option for those who no longer chase BBS: "It is what it is".
Secondly, I am not interested in whether someone has decided not to pursue BBS, nor why is that so.
All I'm examining with THIS poll is whether it's easy for you to get it or not.
If you feel like creating an alternative post/poll on the aforementioned issue, pls do and I'll be happy to participate, but there is no need to hijack this thread with a non-topic.
I find it interesting that some people define BBS by how long it lasts. If I can't feel stubble after my shave then BBS has been achieved. I am not sure how you can shave lower than the surface of your skin unless you are using a multi blade cartridge that is pulling your beard hair up before the second shave blade cuts it. That's a recipe for ingrown hairs when the beard doesn't grow out straight. I think that the growth rate of an individuals hair will vary depending on the individual. For me, and I achieve BBS almost daily, about to 5 hours after my shave I can begin to feel the stubble again. BBS is fleeting, it has a short life span that will vary for each one of us. Perhaps my fast hair growth is one of the reasons I strive for BBS so much. That and how much I hate the feel of stubble.
David, with all due respect, it was a joke. I have found that a good sense of humor is very helpful here.
Also, with all due respect, you can't control how folks respond to your threads. This is a collegial site where we all aspire to conduct ourselves in a gentlemanly manner.
I enjoy our conversations here and look forward to continuing our friendly interactions.
Thank you.
Early on in my shaving journey, I never chased the BBS because I would get irritations and it was very difficult. As my technique improved, I messed around with getting a BBS but I'd still get some bad irritations here and there.
After couple years in, this is my understanding of BBS: It is easy to achieve with the right technique and the best razor + blade setup for your skin. Even with my improved technique, I can't get a BBS with some blades and razors. I'd have to stop when the blade is scraping my skin uncomfortably. I know for sure that with some razors (mostly milder ones) I can't get a BBS because I have to buff so much and I can feel my skin burning. I want to experiment with some blades though... Maybe try a blade that I don't like and pair it with my favorite razor and see if that works. Risky experiment but I'll give it a shot some day.
After couple years in, this is my understanding of BBS: It is easy to achieve with the right technique and the best razor + blade setup for your skin. Even with my improved technique, I can't get a BBS with some blades and razors. I'd have to stop when the blade is scraping my skin uncomfortably. I know for sure that with some razors (mostly milder ones) I can't get a BBS because I have to buff so much and I can feel my skin burning. I want to experiment with some blades though... Maybe try a blade that I don't like and pair it with my favorite razor and see if that works. Risky experiment but I'll give it a shot some day.
I get BBS roughly half of the time, and pretty close the rest. I do not have the worlds toughest beard, though. I can make it happen if I want to, and some razors, blades, and soaps make it more likely (or rather, there are some that make it less likely or whatever). I am under the impression that my technique is fairly good, and I can Usually tell right away if something in the process is gonna provide less than ideal results. For me, under hydrated lather is the thing most likely to provide a less close and less comfortable shave. On days when things aren’t going so well, I’ll finish the first pass and call it a day. A stubbly happy face is better than a smooth angry face IMO.
- Thread starter
- #74
Indeed. Once we let the cat out of the sack, it's mission impossible to attempt to control it
It's what it is.
Off we go, cheers
Perhaps because of comments such as these?
You know, there are other goals in driving than pulling the perfect lap, reducing your time to beat your personal best, etc. How about driving to get to your destination safely and in comfort? What is wrong with that? I call that successful. Meeting the need. Not getting hung up in somebody else's definition of perfection.
Skin stretching - either manually or by pushing the cap into your skin to make nearby whiskers protrude from their pores for a nigh-perpendicular strike of the razor’s edge. There are people able to do this safely and smoothly. Not me, but I put in the effort.
I appreciate where you're coming from. And there is meeting the need, getting from point a to point b. I implied and meant no disrespect for that.
But we're all here because this way we feel is better than carts. As an extension of that, to me shaving is a challenge to make it better still. Life is a challenge. It's a golden opportunity for improvement. Some aspects of life are just a joy ride too, and I appreciate that. But whenever I'm doing something, a challenge or a joy ride or point a to point b, I'm thinking about how to improve upon things as they are. To build. And to move forward in the best way possible. Not someone else's definition of anything, least of all anyone's idea perfection or whatever. But my own personal best, just to discover what I'm capable of.
My analogy of the track wasn't that of a race, but that of someone training. Someone rhythmically working their way though a process of ongoing improvement. Someone challenging their own limitations. There's real joy in that, at least for me. Loving what you do and how you live.
Perhaps another analogy would be painting one's house. The price of paint is the same per gallon, for both ugly colors and for exquisite colors. Some just shrug and grab anything because paint is paint. I appreciate that because I probably do that in aspects of my life that they wouldn't. But for me I'm going to rack my brains working on getting the colors as fantastic as possible. Why not? It's what I want and the pice is the same?
Get it? It's what one chooses to put into something that makes the difference!
But that's just me. I believe that when we strive for excellence it permeates every aspect of our lives. I'm always trying to make myself better, my relationships better, my skills better, my existence better. And thereby have more to offer my loved ones and the world.
I never cook the same thing twice. I'm always adapting the recipe to circumstance and working to make it an improvement on the last. Keeps things interesting. Self challenges. No biggie and no skin off anyone else's teeth.
I genuinely appreciate the value of point A to point B. That's what I do when getting groceries. Safely and comfortable I guess, if such a thing really exists. But that's not what I believe life is about because we need to grow. And the best wine isn't made in safety and comfort, the vine and the vinter both need struggle and aspirations.
So I challenge myself to grow and get a little better. Even if it's just being stuck in traffic but having a good attitude about it. And so I also strive for BBS whenever I have the luxury of time just because I can and because I expect that of myself.
YMMV!
Last edited:
My view is BBS is like doing my best at work, or trying to be a loving husband-father-grandfather. I always strive for that, usually fall short. And when I fall short, I don't spend my time punishing myself, but rather just keep striving. Perfection is always the goal, never the destination.
Truer words were never spoken!
Very well said. However I take a little different approach. I always strive for BBS, usually fall a bit short, and enjoy every shave... unless it's a really bad outing. But the BBS isnt the goal for me. Having a nice pleasurable shave is the goal regardless of the outcome. The BBS is just a bonus.
Similar threads
