Uh no, I'm sorry but that''s just not correct. There may be differences between where you and I live, but here and many other places in the US they try this BS tactic of stopping you to check your receipt and any/all bags you have (shopping or otherwise) to make sure the items add up one to one. They don't have any reason to believe you stole anything, they don't think you stole anything, but they want to check you to make sure and put on a show to try to intimidate the casual thieves. They got the idea from Costco and other membership stores where you agree to the examination as a condition of shopping there (part of the membership contract you sign); The difference is that Best Buy, Target, Walmart, and the other non-membership stores that try to pull that stuff didn't make the consumer sign anything or put any other conditions on shopping at their location. The best they can do ask you to leave but once you pay for your merchandise it is yours and they have NO right to make you consent to a search.
Illegal search?
- Thread starter HDPaul
- Start date
Uh no, I'm sorry but that''s just not correct. There may be differences between where you and I live, but here and many other places in the US they try this BS tactic of stopping you to check your receipt and any/all bags you have (shopping or otherwise) to make sure the items add up one to one. They don't have any reason to believe you stole anything, they don't think you stole anything, but they want to check you to make sure and put on a show to try to intimidate the casual thieves. They got the idea from Costco and other membership stores where you agree to the examination as a condition of shopping there (part of the membership contract you sign); The difference is that Best Buy, Target, Walmart, and the other non-membership stores that try to pull that stuff didn't make the consumer sign anything or put any other conditions on shopping at their location. The best they can do ask you to leave but once you pay for your merchandise it is yours and they have NO right to make you consent to a search.
It seems to me that this is now more about education about what you are required to do in such situations (which is nothing, you can walk away) because she clearly didn't Like being searched like a criminal (and who can blame her?)
I'm surprised by some of the answers here. I should be all-right with being accused of shoplifting, and willingly comply with a request to be searched, and just go on my merry way? No! If you accuse me of theft, I'm acting like a 3 year old. Call the police, I'll wait. Hell, I'm going Samuel L. Jackson on this plane.
I ran into this situation at a local mall in a store called Zumiez. Granted, I'm probably too old to be shopping there, but I was interested in their beanies (hats) for the cold winter. Wouldn't you know it, this teenage employee began following, and mirroring me. I was tempted to walk out but I kept my cool.
I ran into this situation at a local mall in a store called Zumiez. Granted, I'm probably too old to be shopping there, but I was interested in their beanies (hats) for the cold winter. Wouldn't you know it, this teenage employee began following, and mirroring me. I was tempted to walk out but I kept my cool.
Checking your receipt at the door is a far different thing than letting someone go through your personal bag or pockets without reason.
Bingo.
It is just a final step in the purchase process. There isn't any privacy violation because you have already publicly purchased the items in the bag. But I still don't like being subjected to the bother of it all.
I like being detainted, and if the guard is a cute little 25 year old Faith Hill look a like, I will even agree to a body search by her, and if there are 2 of them and they both look like Faith Hill and have a bottle of Makers Mark, Hell, I'm up for a strip search!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
....................maybe
....................maybe
I like being detainted, and if the guard is a cute little 25 year old Faith Hill look a like, I will even agree to a body search by her, and if there are 2 of them and they both look like Faith Hill and have a bottle of Makers Mark, Hell, I'm up for a strip search!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sounds painful.
Once you pay at the register the items are yours and they have NO grounds to detain or search you in anyway you unless they believe you stole something. I do not like being accused of thievery, even in an indirect manner such as this after I have paid for my items.
OldSaw
The wife's investment
Just curious, where is that in the constitution?
OldSaw
The wife's investment
I hate going to Sam's. After I pay under full view of security cameras I have to immediately go stand in another line before I can exit the store so another employee can look at my receipt. I have not renewed my membership in many years. The prices aren't even that special yet people line up with their carts every day and think it is just dandy.
I've NEVER been searched at any big box store. I HAVE had my receipt checked against the items in my cart, but that is as far from "detain or search" as you can get.
uh, the forcing you to stop and checking the items in your shopping bags vs your receipt is exactly the same. once you pay for the items, they are yours, the bags you are carrying them are your property. Them stopping you and checking like that is a search and they have no legal right to do that, except too many people don't don't value their rights enough to say "no". You don't HAVE to consent to that BS and I refuse to, it's an insult against my character and against my intelligence.
Not that I like the search policy, but I'm pretty sure the store has pretty much the right to stop and search you and trail you as it see fits, since business owners in general have the right to run a business in the way they see fit (same as they can requires shoes and shirts or not allow eating in store, which, technically violates one's freedom of expression). It's only if the search policy is particularly egregious (they forced a shoplifting suspect to agree to a strip and/or cavity search) or clearly demonstrates discriminatory practices (only searching minorities) that it potentially strays into 'illegal' territory.
I would think, however, that the right of a store detective to search your bag ends the minute you leave the store. I don't see how, once you're no longer on their property, how they have any legal authority to make you come back to the store. I think if I were ever stopped by a detective outside the store (and wasn't stealing anything), I'd say to him, "If you want to search my bag, you'd better be 100% sure that I stole something. Because if you search my and find nothing stolen, I'm not only going to sue you, but your manager and the CEO." Would just love to see their face when that happened.
Would it make any difference if after being stopped by employees for a bag check, the lady was actually caught stealing?
Remember that anyone can make a citizens arrest. You had best be sure though that you are 1000% correct because you have no protections from suit and there is a good chance you will be sued.
So, I can in plain sight of everyone grab a box of Twizzlers on my way out of the store, and unless the police are physically right there at the door no-one has the right to intervene?
Your right of course. But as you have the right to not consent to search the store reserves the right to protect their assets. Checking your recipts is a very common practice as, especially during busy times, people will come in and buy say a 15" flat panel for a hundred dollars then return later in the day and load up a 50" and tape the reciept to the box. If no one checked reciepts or did an sort of "policeing" for shoplifters everything you buy would cost a hell of a lot more than it already does. Almost every store has a sign near the front with their policys and the "We reserve Right to Refuse service" sign.
If that is how you feel I would suggest before you shop at a store you ask their policy beforehand and use your right to not shop there if you don't agree with their policies. Its something I do all the time altho not in this particular context.
Jay
I do not know the answer, but what you say seems plausible. It may vary from state to state or US Circuit Court area to area. I bet citizen's arrest varies with th jurisdiction. Modern law is not enamored of self-help.
If the police do come, can the police search without a warrant? If the police saw something, I think yes. But if no one at the store saw anything, I would think not. And I am not sure the police could rely on what a witness said to do the search right there. Another question would be could anyone hold you there, while the police came? If they caught one with something sure. But if you refuse the search and insist on leaving, doesn't the store risk a criminal offense of restraint or whatver. Akin to kidnapping?
While I am not giving any legal advice, I'm basing my statement/opinion of the scenario on my law degree, my active bar license, and my 5 years experience as a criminal defense statement. So I'm just wondering what basis you are disagreeing with me on? A feeling?
When you enter a store, you are on private property. If someone stole something from your house and you had the opportunity to stop them, call the police, and keep them seated at your kitchen table before the police arrived, you would. I never said the store has the right to detain you. If you choose to run, you probably can. They're not going to shoot you (and if they do, they'll have a major disaster on their hands). The wiser decision is to comply with the search unless you are either in possession of a stolen good or you're willing to deal with a subsequent investigation and be banned from that store. If you're accepting of the consequences, then by all means, run. It's just the dumber option, IMO.
Further, where do you get that a store has to be 100% sure you stole something before they detain someone?. The police don't have to be 100% sure you stole something to detain you, and they have to abide by the Constitution. They typically need only a reasonable suspicion. Every jurisdiction has both civil and criminal statutes against unlawful imprisonment. The stores obligations are typically to abide by those statutes. Nothing else. The standard for a private party to temporarily detain someone and search their belongings is much lower under those statutes than the 4th Amendment is for the police.
If that were so, then some opportunistic person would have won the case in court years ago. It is common practice in most businesses other than stores to check delivered goods against the bill of sale before signing off on it. Yes, the delivery people are "detained." all part of doing business between businesses.
Having an attitude that you are being accused of theft is just that, a personal attitude. No one is making such an accusation in any way, but if you are going to think that then it is your problem alone. How about the TSA procedures? To get on an airplane everybody is subject to search. No one is being accused of anything at the checkpoints, they are just checking to be sure. No different really than what is happening at the few stores that make checks as you leave.
