How to Cut Thru Marketing Haze

[Shoegazer]

I'm very old, but new the the current world of double edged safety razors. I'd like some help in cutting thru the thicket...

I can recall first shaving with my Dad's old butterfly Gillette, and that's what I used until I went away to college in '68. I bought an Atra 2 somewhere around that time, and it's what I used until about 3 weeks ago. I found it increasingly hard to find Atra 2 blades that weren't absolute junk. I was getting very poor shaves after multiple passes. I had seen the ads for "Shave Club!" where they wanted you to pay >$30 per month to shave the "new way", with three, five, SIX blades!

Similarly, I saw multi-blade sets at the grocery store, and this just looked gimmicky as hell to me.

I recalled my Dad's razor, and this seemed the antithesis of all the ads, so I felt that maybe double-edge safety razors were on the outs, keeping a low profile. Boy, was I ever mistaken.

So to just get my feet wet (so to speak) I bought an entry level Vikings Blade butterfly and five blades for $13. Surprisingly, I have enjoyed using it--I actually kinda look forward to shaving now, whereas before it was an unwanted chore. I believe that I like it because you have to THINK a bit; but if you do, I'm convinced that the shave is much closer and much more precise, especially around mustache, etc.

So I've been looking and reading for a solid month, because I intend to indulge myself just a bit. And it's interesting that male shaving is probably the least expensive luxury market you can get into; e.g., it's not like old motorcycles or a gun collection. At the same time I don't want to simply throw money away.

So I'd like to solicit your *opinions* of which brands/distributors seem to be the least inclined to hyperbole, and if you want, which brands/distributors seem the most superficial and inflated.

In case it's not clear what I mean by superficial and inflated, it's what I just saw on a webpage:

It's this sort of dumb pomposity I'm seeking to avoid. There seems to be *A LOT* of it out there. I'd say that Vikings Blade fits into that category, although their entry level kit was good enough to get started.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Happy Jack]

You could do worse than looking into vintage Gillette DE razors. Don't buy anything that's obviously dirty or corroded, though.

 

[Tulsa1977]

Welcome to B&B! Not sure I am the best person to lead you through the haze, but I will take a crack at it.

Reading many threads on here, you will find the acronym YMMV or Your Milage May Vary. Meaning what works for me might not work for you. I keep this in mind when reading reviews and marketing speak. Some of the things that work for me:

Software: Classics like Proraso Green Cream & Cella (kilo brick), both inexpensive and readily available. Stirling - made in Arkansas is exceptional. SV, GD, and AdP on the high end are fantastic. Retailers like Pasteur’s, Italian Barber, West Coast Shaving have done me very well. There are many other great retailers as well.

Hardware; On the razor front, Gillette Slims (found on eBay or even a local shop) are fantastic. Many enjoy Fat Tip razors. If you want to spend some money - Timeless/Blackland are very well regarded. Timeless .68 OC is my current favorite.

Blades: Well my friend, this is where YMMV is really the word. I enjoy Gillette Silver Blues, 7’oclock blacks, and Personna Lab’s. You can normally buy several tucks of blades to put your order over the minimum for free shipping..

Brushes: I really enjoy boar brushes (Zenith, Omega Pro) and recommend them to anyone getting into the game. Several people also seem to love the newer synthetic brushes. Badgers are… to my experience, the best. 2 band Finest for me! With that said, I don’t know that the cost difference of a $200 badger brush equals a relative $$ increase in performance over a $25 Zenith. But that’s me.

Technique trumps $$ for me when getting into wet shaving. There is a thread on here about what folks would do differently getting into wet shaving. Definitely worth a read.

Thread 'What I have learned- If I was starting over what would I do differently?'
What I have learned- If I was starting over what would I do differently? - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/what-i-have-learned-if-i-was-starting-over-what-would-i-do-differently.84797/


Again, welcome to B & B! Happy shaving!

 

[BigJ]

Welcome aboard!

B&B is the place to see what knowledgeable folks are really using!

For what is worth, I usually suggest new guys start with something like a vintage Gillette, 34C HD or one of the 89 series razors. These are generally considered ‘mild/moderate’ razors and are a great place to start.

 

[Shoegazer]

You could do worse than looking into vintage Gillette DE razors. Don't buy anything that's obviously dirty or corroded, though.

I was thinking along two separate paths: a good, solid butterfly adjustable (so far that *looks* like a Rockwell T2--I won't fork out for the SS version, just too much for a personal indulgence); or a sort of what is called a frankenrazor.

The solid adjustable appeals to the practical side of me (in many ways I'm very tight with a buck), but being able to swap out parts piecemeal appeals ot the kid in me. I can afford anything out there that I've seen, but I have my principles, so the frankenrazor might be mostly Yaqi bits and pieces.

But I've serious considered the Vikings Blade Emperor, but there's something about the way the company presents itself that makes me distrust them. So the Rockwell at $150 seems like maybe that might fill the adjustable spot.

But what gets me is that for less than half I could have a really nifty personal creation, and I could build on it as struck my fancy.

Of course, any advice/opinions are welcomed.

 

[Shoegazer]

Welcome aboard!

B&B is the place to see what knowledgeable folks are really using!

For what is worth, I usually suggest new guys start with something like a vintage Gillette, 34C HD or one of the 89 series razors. These are generally considered ‘mild/moderate’ razors and are a great place to start.

Yes, I've thought about it, but will not want to buy anything used, unless it is a heavily discounted high-end--you know, "fell off the truck"...

 

[Shoegazer]

Welcome to B&B! Not sure I am the best person to lead you through the haze, but I will take a crack at it.

Reading many threads on here, you will find the acronym YMMV or Your Milage May Vary. Meaning what works for me might not work for you. I keep this in mind when reading reviews and marketing speak. Some of the things that work for me:

Software: Classics like Proraso Green Cream & Cella (kilo brick), both inexpensive and readily available. Stirling - made in Arkansas is exceptional. SV, GD, and AdP on the high end are fantastic. Retailers like Pasteur’s, Italian Barber, West Coast Shaving have done me very well. There are many other great retailers as well.

Hardware; On the razor front, Gillette Slims (found on eBay or even a local shop) are fantastic. Many enjoy Fat Tip razors. If you want to spend some money - Timeless/Blackland are very well regarded. Timeless .68 OC is my current favorite.

Blades: Well my friend, this is where YMMV is really the word. I enjoy Gillette Silver Blues, 7’oclock blacks, and Personna Lab’s. You can normally buy several tucks of blades to put your order over the minimum for free shipping..

Brushes: I really enjoy boar brushes (Zenith, Omega Pro) and recommend them to anyone getting into the game. Several people also seem to love the newer synthetic brushes. Badgers are… to my experience, the best. 2 band Finest for me! With that said, I don’t know that the cost difference of a $200 badger brush equals a relative $$ increase in performance over a $25 Zenith. But that’s me.

Technique trumps $$ for me when getting into wet shaving. There is a thread on here about what folks would do differently getting into wet shaving. Definitely worth a read.

Thread 'What I have learned- If I was starting over what would I do differently?'
What I have learned- If I was starting over what would I do differently? - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/what-i-have-learned-if-i-was-starting-over-what-would-i-do-differently.84797/


Again, welcome to B & B! Happy shaving!

Thanks very much!

 

[Phoenixkh]

Welcome to the B&B community.

I found a lot of indirect advice by reading the various journeys listed in the "Journals and Diaries" forum, though when new entries are added, they show up in "New Posts". I ended up asking a lot of questions to the owners and those who frequented those threads. Eventually, I started my own.

Then as @BigJ said, you can watch what razors other people are using and why they chose that brand and model, etc. I think you'll learn pretty quickly, Amazon isn't the best place to get advice. They do sell the hmmmmm mainstream gear but the reviews are always suspect. You'll get better advice here even if you end up buying the razor from Amazon.

 

[Lightcs1776]

I was thinking along two separate paths: a good, solid butterfly adjustable (so far that *looks* like a Rockwell T2--I won't fork out for the SS version, just too much for a personal indulgence); or a sort of what is called a frankenrazor.

The solid adjustable appeals to the practical side of me (in many ways I'm very tight with a buck), but being able to swap out parts piecemeal appeals ot the kid in me. I can afford anything out there that I've seen, but I have my principles, so the frankenrazor might be mostly Yaqi bits and pieces.

But I've serious considered the Vikings Blade Emperor, but there's something about the way the company presents itself that makes me distrust them. So the Rockwell at $150 seems like maybe that might fill the adjustable spot.

But what gets me is that for less than half I could have a really nifty personal creation, and I could build on it as struck my fancy.

Of course, any advice/opinions are welcomed.

I own a Rockwell S6, which has six baseplate positions. You might find one on the B&B buy, sell, trade area at a great price. Used razors, if well kept, are just as good as new. A Gillette slim in good condition is another excellent option. For an affordable new razor I think the Merkur 34D is a great value. Whatever you decide, welcome to the forums.

 

[BigJ]

Yes, I've thought about it, but will not want to buy anything used, unless it is a heavily discounted high-end--you know, "fell off the truck"...

The 34C HD and the EJ89 series are both available from the manufacturers.

 

[Shoegazer]

I own a Rockwell S6, which has six baseplate positions. You might find one on the B&B buy, sell, trade area at a great price. Used razors, if well kept, are just as good as new. A Gillette slim in good condition is another excellent option. For an affordable new razor I think the Merkur 34D is a great value. Whatever you decide, welcome to the forums.

Thanks!

 

[Shoegazer]

Welcome to the B&B community.

I found a lot of indirect advice by reading the various journeys listed in the "Journals and Diaries" forum, though when new entries are added, they show up in "New Posts". I ended up asking a lot of questions to the owners and those who frequented those threads. Eventually, I started my own.

Then as @BigJ said, you can watch what razors other people are using and why they chose that brand and model, etc. I think you'll learn pretty quickly, Amazon isn't the best place to get advice. They do sell the hmmmmm mainstream gear but the reviews are always suspect. You'll get better advice here even if you end up buying the razor from Amazon.

Good advice! Thank you!

 

[Manye]

Welcome to the community!

 

[Shoegazer]

You could do worse than looking into vintage Gillette DE razors. Don't buy anything that's obviously dirty or corroded, though.

I spent some time looking on line and I may end up doing just as you say.

It seems like the Gillette Slim model is in a decent price range, has basically all that I want in an adjustable, and there seem to be a whole lot of them to choose from.

Am I mistaken, or do they have more than one handle length?

For a decent one--not outstanding or marketed as a collectible, what do you think is a reasonable price range?

Any other observations on these used Gillettes is appreciated.

 

[Shoegazer]

Welcome to the community!

Thanks!

 

[Alum Ladd]

I spent some time looking on line and I may end up doing just as you say.

It seems like the Gillette Slim model is in a decent price range, has basically all that I want in an adjustable, and there seem to be a whole lot of them to choose from.

Am I mistaken, or do they have more than one handle length?

For a decent one--not outstanding or marketed as a collectible, what do you think is a reasonable price range?

Any other observations on these used Gillettes is appreciated.

Hello and welcome to Badger & Blade! An oasis of sanity on the internet.

I exclusively use vintages, and have a menagerie of very efficient and to my eye, beautiful marrages of mass production with fantastic designs. I am always deeply impressed by the style and industrial elegance of them. They are often quite beautiful, tough as an M-4 Sherman and work perfectly to this day. I also find them highly efficient.

A Tech is a superb daily driver. I have several examples. I would suggest a so called Pre-War, that can be ID'd by the triangular slots.

A highly efficient but forgiving razor for daily use. A must in any small collection. The Pre-Wars have a .28" blade gap, so they are efficient, while being a joy to use. Many forum members consider them to be the finest SB DE razor design ever made.

A 40's Super Speed is another efficient yet mild daily driver. Mine is a 1949 yet seems factory fresh. I suspect this was your razor you refer to as your Father's butterfly. Always a joy to use. I find the 1940's Super Speeds to be the most elegantly beautiful TTO's (Twist To Open) ever made.

With regard to adjustables, the Slim is popular on the forum. You are right about differing handle lengths, but these were the post 1968 Slim successors. The Super Adjustable 84 and the Slim Adjustable 109. These numbers corresponded to handle lengths in millimetres. A first for Gillette US.

They are not brass. The handles are a toughened aluminium and they are slighly more fragile than the early 195 and Slim. They have a black anodised handle.
Here is a Super Adjustable 84 from 1970.

I would suggest a 195 as an excellent adjustable. I am honoured to own a 1959 and 1961 example, due to the immense kindness of B&B Brothers. I prefer the heavier weight and shorter handle. Some call these Fatboys. I do not. They were known at the time as the Gillette 195 adjustable due to their $1.95 price point.

Here is a 1961 example.

These would make an excellent core to any little collection you may wish to build.

They would all seem readily available and at a good price in the States. Being from the UK, I am always slightly envious of the huge numbers and rich variety of beautiful vintages you have readily available.

Note that I am illustrating cased, collector grade examples. All of these would sell for 3 figure sums, often as much if not more than a high end modern. Uncased examples are out there at far more modest prices, but with the razor mostly in perfect running order.

I just find them to be massively evocative in their presence, and a joy to use.

Ebay is an excellent resource for these.

Enjoy and welcome!

 

[Shoegazer]

Hello and welcome to Badger & Blade! An oasis of sanity on the internet.

I exclusively use vintages, and have a menagerie of mostly tame and very appealing types. I am always deeply impressed by the style and industrial elegance of them. They are often quite beautiful, tough as an M-4 Sherman and work perfectly to this day. I also find them highly efficient.

A Tech is a superb daily driver. I have several examples. I would suggest a so called Pre-War, that can be ID'd by the triangular slots.

A highly efficient but forgiving razor for daily use. A must in any small collection. The Pre-Wars have a .28" blade gap, so they are efficient, while being a joy to use. Many forum members consider them to be the finest SB DE razor design ever made.

A 40's Super Speed is another efficient yet mild daily driver. Mine is a 1949 yet seems factory fresh. I suspect this was your razor you refer to as your Father's butterfly. Always a joy to use. I find the 1940's Super Speeds to be the most elegantly beautiful TTO's (Twist To Open) ever made.

With regard to adjustables, the Slim is popular on the forum. You are right about differing handle lengths, but these were the post 1968 Slim successors. The Super Adjustable 84 and the Slim Adjustable 109. These numbers corresponded to handle lengths in millimetres. A first for Gillette US.

They are not brass. The handles are a toughened aluminium and they are slighly more fragile than the early 195 and Slim. They have a black anodised handle.
Here is a Super Adjustable 84 from 1970.

I would suggest a 195 as an excellent adjustable. I am honoured to own a 1959 and 1961 example, due to the immense kindness of B&B Brothers. I prefer the heavier weight and shorter handle. Some call these Fatboys. I do not. They were known at the time as the Gillette 195 adjustable due to their $1.95 price point.

Here is a 1961 example.

These would make an excellent core to any little collection you may wish to build.

They would all seem readily available and at a good price in the States. Being from the UK, I am always slightly envious of the huge numbers and rich variety of beautiful vintages you have readily available.

Note that I am illustrating cased, collector grade examples. All of these would sell for 3 figure sums, often as much if not more than a high end modern. Uncased examples are out there at much more modest prices, but with the razor mostly in perfect running order.

Ebay is an excellent resource for these.

Enjoy and welcome!

Thanks for the excellent in-depth information on the sort of used adjustable I will probably try to find. I plan to use it daily, so I don't want a collectible quality example.

I've spent some time this evening looking on ebay, mostly. What I see is thatof the early 60s examples identified as "Slim", there seem to be a lot of very clean and supposedly functional ones for sale, and what I'm seeing as a weak point is that the butterfly doors, on the outside, many have lost all or most of the plating. To me, this seems cosmetic, but in your opinion, does the loss of chrome plating on the doors affect the razor in any substantive way? E.g., I am not seeing corrosion on the unplated surfaces, so I'm guessing the doors are a zinc alloy.

 

[old_pine]

Welcome welcome! I agree with everything before my comment! This, I realize probably isn’t too helpful, but just goes to show that it’s pretty tough to go wrong when you’re “hanging out” with this crowd.

I’ll throw in my .2: I really love the Razorock Gamechanger .68 & .84. .68 is a great daily driver. .84 is equally as good of a daily driver but a little more blade exposure if you end up being an every 2-3 day shaver. What I like about them is that they’re CNC’d Stainless steel so they’re low maintenance, high tolerance, and reliable. AND a good value! I don’t think you could go wrong with that!

Cheers and happy shaving

 

[Alum Ladd]

Thanks for the excellent in-depth information on the sort of used adjustable I will probably try to find. I plan to use it daily, so I don't want a collectible quality example.

I've spent some time this evening looking on ebay, mostly. What I see is thatof the early 60s examples identified as "Slim", there seem to be a lot of very clean and supposedly functional ones for sale, and what I'm seeing as a weak point is that the butterfly doors, on the outside, many have lost all or most of the plating. To me, this seems cosmetic, but in your opinion, does the loss of chrome plating on the doors affect the razor in any substantive way? E.g., I am not seeing corrosion on the unplated surfaces, so I'm guessing the doors are a zinc alloy.

I think you will find a great Slim for around $30-40 in good condition. Many are cheaper. I picked up a near mint N-4 (last quarter production Oct-Dec 1968) Slim for £28 a couple of years back. The last Slim ever made. I have passed it on to a wonderful B&B Brother since.

It was a sweet shaver. I just didn't get on with the slightly (to me) long handle. I only use razors with a handle length of around 3". That seems to work best for me. Luckily almost all vintages have roughly that handle length.

The Slims were the last full brass adjustables. They were plated in nickel, and the plating can be fully restored for a reasonable price. Back Roads Gold offer an excellent replating and tuning service at a good price.

I would consider the earlier 195 Adjustable as well however.

In my experience, plating loss by itself does not affect the mechanics of a razor.

Heres my old N-4 Slim

I suggest also that you check out some of the other examples of classic Gillettes I've given too. Great fun, and can be picked up really cheaply in great shape!

 

[Happy Jack]

I spent some time looking on line and I may end up doing just as you say.

It seems like the Gillette Slim model is in a decent price range, has basically all that I want in an adjustable, and there seem to be a whole lot of them to choose from.

Am I mistaken, or do they have more than one handle length?

For a decent one--not outstanding or marketed as a collectible, what do you think is a reasonable price range?

Any other observations on these used Gillettes is appreciated.

I bought two Slims last year. One was NOS with the case and in the original cardboard outer box. For an ideas of cost that one cost me £100. I also bought a good birthday quarter example, with no plating loss, for $14.99 plus shipping and tax. That one makes a good every-day razor. I believe all the handles were the same size. Personally I found that I preferred the older Fatboy, or 195, as it can be slightly (~one click) more aggressive/effective and I find the fatter handle slightly easier to use. They are both great razors, though.