Honing with tape

[Tom Gabison]

Hey Alex,

When I received the razors, they both were honed with 1 layer. Just got a Koraat also honed with tape. I just don’t love using it so more of a general question.

 

[rbscebu]

Hey Alex,

When I received the razors, they both were honed with 1 layer. Just got a Koraat also honed with tape. I just don’t love using it so more of a general question.

Next time, if it can be done, ask for the SR to be honed without tape before delivery.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I'll put this here rather than start a new thread. I have an 11/16 Engstrom shoulderless that I've honed and taken through the balsa method. It's plenty sharp but still a little harsh--needs a very low shave angle. It occurred to me that I hadn't calculated the bevel angle so I measured it last night. It's pretty low, under 15 degrees throughout. The spine is consistent but the blade width varies a little so it's closer to 14 degrees towards the heel.

Is it worth rehoning it with tape to get a more obtuse angle? One layer, or two? Or just get used to the idea of shaving with the spine barely off my face?

 

[rideon66]

Tom
Any idea how they did hone them? The full wedges are the biggest challenge as I end up honing 95% bevel and 5% edge.

Alx

Alx
I have never seen or heard of any proof other than small bevel and minimal to no spine wear on many I have seen. I believe these were honed freehand with the spine above the stone slightly. Usually one piece of electrical tape, but I have had were 2 to 3 were needed to match the existing bevel. I have never seen nor read of any sharpening guides for razors back then either.
I have done a wedge free hand and it can be done. Plus I am sure with many of hundreds done you learn the action and skill much better, but it is just easier and more consistent to use tape unless you really want to practice such a skill. It is more tedious than freehand knife honing since you have to use such light pressure yet keep it elevated at such a slight angle for a good bit of time. I just took the razor and much like a knife put it flat on the stone and then lifted the spine till the apex of the edge met the stone then took my time following that and would not flip very often since it was much more difficult to realine. Usually when the spine is flat on the stone I can go rather quickly flipping back and forth on each side with each redirection of the stroke. So it takes a lot more time and concentration to do a wedge freehand.
The only other guess I could have for what they did would be to fold a piece of cloth over the spine, but that is just another guess as I have never seen anything written about it.
I use to have a almost full wedge George Wostenholm with the full blade etching and no spineware the bevel was small. I dropped it on a stone with no tape spine on the stone and lightly started to cut the bevel. I lost half the etching to that bevel. So I know it was not honed flat before.

 

[JPO]

I'll put this here rather than start a new thread. I have an 11/16 Engstrom shoulderless that I've honed and taken through the balsa method. It's plenty sharp but still a little harsh--needs a very low shave angle. It occurred to me that I hadn't calculated the bevel angle so I measured it last night. It's pretty low, under 15 degrees throughout. The spine is consistent but the blade width varies a little so it's closer to 14 degrees towards the heel.

Is it worth rehoning it with tape to get a more obtuse angle? One layer, or two? Or just get used to the idea of shaving with the spine barely off my face?

I ended up putting a layer of tape on a Böker razor with a shallow bevel angle. I did not have enough support behind the edge to be able to finish well. You only need a few strokes on a finisher with tape to change the bevel angle. It made a difference on this razor.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

"Is it worth rehoning it with tape to get a more obtuse angle? One layer, or two? Or just get used to the idea of shaving with the spine barely off my face?"



So, how does it shave and are edges lasting?

You do not need to “re-hone” the razor, (full bevel set). Just put a layer of tape on it an do a handful of laps, 5-10 on your finish stone, for a thin micro bevel. A micro bevel will make a stronger edge, and in some cases prevent micro chipping on hard razors.

You can then add another layer of tape and increase the angle and try that, depending on the amount of spine wear. If for some reason you do not like the edge, the whole thing (micro bevel) can be erased in about 20-30 laps on a finish stone, back to where you were before. I doubt you will feel any difference in the shave.

You do not need to alter you shaving angle, if you did, you would alter the thickness of the tape. We are not machines that can keep a constant angle of a razor on a curved face, jaw, and neck, at least I can’t.

There is no downside to using tape, on worn spines and wedges it can make honing them much easier, and the bevels are not permanent or destructive. Not something one must agonize about, it is just a layer of tape.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Thanks for the replies, fellas. It's seems to be holding an edge just fine, but the shave is a little harsh. This could be due to technique. It's incredibly light, both the blade and the scales, so I may be overcompensating for that with pressure. I'm not seeing any microchips with the loupe, but I haven't done the cue tip test.

I'm going to give it another shave soon, if I don't like it after that I'll try putting a microbevel on it. I have no issue using tape when it makes sense, so it wasn't something I was agonizing about, as much as trying to figure out if it made sense here.

Thanks again.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Tom
Any idea how they did hone them? The full wedges are the biggest challenge as I end up honing 95% bevel and 5% edge.

Alx

I am told that they were simply freehanded.

 

[SammieM]

While this is possible have you ever seen an old wedge razor done like that from the past. No they did something different too. No one used to hone them like that. You don't find them like that in the wild do you?

Tom
Any idea how they did hone them? The full wedges are the biggest challenge as I end up honing 95% bevel and 5% edge.

Alx

Here is a little food for thought. Theoretically if you use a dished stone you wouldn’t need tape for the wedges or near wedges. I haven’t seen a stone like that marketed for razors, but wouldn’t be surprised if the manufacturers had them. Now, all the different widths would need their own special stones I imagine if you want to keep the bevel size the same…

 

[rbscebu]

No need for dished whetstones. I just use a lead-glass square pyramid properly oriented to the earth's magnetic field on a full moon.

 

[SammieM]

No need for dished whetstones. I just use a lead-glass square pyramid properly oriented to the earth's magnetic field on a full moon.

That’s been very helpful. I get right on it and see how I fare. Thank you!

 

[thp001]

A wedge which has no or minimal (factory) hone wear shouldn't need tape. When they were ground the edge was brought to about as close to an apex as one could get or even to an apex with a slight burr. The burr was struck off on a hard stone and they were then honed pretty much as normal.

I think because this is an enthusiast forum people tend to hone just because. This leads to excessive wear of razors imo, and in particular tape is used on wedge razors to save them from excessive spine wear because of this.

Once a razor has had its bevel set, it should never need doing again unless of damage or excessive convexing due to pasted stropping. Maintenance should be done on fine finishing hones which will produce a minimum amount of wear.

As far as the "true wedge" razor where the whole face is the bevel, these razors are either dud grinds or have been honed into oblivion. Look at old grinders manuals and old illustrations from the razor trade...razors are all ground on some kind of wheel. You couldn't grind a flat faced razor unless you're either a lousy grinder, rocking the blade on the stone or the wheel has a diameter of tens of feet. Most wheels were about 10 inches give or take in the mid 19th century razor trade. I use a 10 inch wheel on some of my own razors that I make, my razors definitely don't come out flat faced.

As far as old razors being freehanded, maybe some were (honers trying to speed up the job?) but if you look at the following images from a travelling salesmans set of Joseph Elliot razors which are absolutely mint, never used, been behind glass for a century, you will see the factory honewear at the spine. A number of old Victorian razor literature (easily searchable on Google Books) says likewise.

Properly ground wedges were honed just like the full hollows that came later, flat on the stone.

 

[thp001]

To further cement my claim here is some text from:

Cyclopaedia of Useful Arts, Mechanical and Chemical, Manufactures, Mining and Engineering
In Three Volumes

Published in 1868 by Charles Tomlinson describing striking off the burr after grinding an the subsequent honing of a razor (suprise, no freehanding!). Weren't no full hollows in 1868.