What's new

Honing for New Guys: Step 2- Bevel Setting

Ok, here is part two of the honing series I am starting. This section requires a bevel setting stone. Coticules can do everything with one stone, but I do not feel well versed enough to advise Coticule users. Hopefully a coticule user with experience will contribute their method since I am unqualified to do so. This thread will apply mainly to water stones and what to look for. There are many ways to look at bevel setting that are as good or better than this one. This is just a simple method that works for me.
NOTE: This thread will deal with hollow grinds and non-curved razors. Many wedges that lay flat on the hone can he honed using this exact method, but I recommend 1-2 layers of tape on the spine for wedge grinds. Curved blades require the "Rolling X" and rolling circles which are more technically difficult and usually cause me to double the number of strokes due to only part of the razor being on the hone during the stroke.
If anyone wants me to do a thread on honing curved blades, PM me and I will do a thread specifically for curved blades. Also, on brand new razors I do not do bevel setting, but rather start on a higher grit stone (4-5K) because I think many of the razors I have honed new come with fairly reliable bevels.
My Steps:
1) Take a feel of the razor. If it is sticky sharp to the thumb pad or cuts hair easily then bevel setting may not be necessary. Certain blades may have slight unevenness to the bevel in which case I would probably work on it especially if it barely cuts hair.
2) Prepare your stones/ This means make sure they are lapped and have been soaked or not soaked as appropriate.

3) If the razor has chips, I start with my DMT 325 grit stone and tape the spine of the razor and start working on the chipped area until the bevel is even on the 325 grit stone. This can take a lot of time, but using a grinder to remove chips can lead to disaster and using a low grit stone (<1K) speeds up the process. I also start bevel setting with this stone if the blade is blunted because its faster than the 1K stone.
4) After all the chips are removed, I remove the tape to being bevel setting with a 1K stone. I personally use the Naniwa 1K for this purpose because it doesn't scratch a polished blade like I have done with a Norton, though I love the Norton 1K as well.
5) I start with 50 small circles with slight pressure. Followed by 10 "X" strokes with the same light pressure.
6) Next: do 40 small circles with NO PRESSURE followed by 10 "X" strokes with no pressure.
7) Test: You can test blades a number of ways and everyone has their own. I hope others will add their methods of testing a bevel, but this is mine.
Fist, I do a thumb pad test down the whole length of the blade form toe to heel. Then, I test each portion of he razor to see if it genuinely cuts arm hair. This does mean trying to saw hair or using a huge amount of pressure on your skin, this means that the razor cuts hair as you slide it down your arm. In my opinion and experience if the razors does not really cut hairs, then the bevel is not ready. If you have a microscope its nice to look and make sure you have a nice refined bevel, but you need not purchase one for the purpose of honing.

Notes: If the razor does not pass the tests over the whole blade, then the spine may be uneven or the blade warped. In this case, I repeat the process again except I will do 100 circles with slight pressure as the only difference. This process does not always work and you need more laps or to use a different technique because often even the finer more expensive razor may have slight warping. Also, I do not use tape routinely anymore because hone wear for me is minimal now that I use little pressure. Even on new razor I do not use tape because usually I can't tell if the razor has been with the naked eye if no pressure is used.

Experienced Honers: please contribute to this. I do not get HHT positive blades, nor do I get comfortable shaves off a 1K. I do however stop my honing progression if the blade will not cut hair off the 1K stone. I have shaved off a 1K in experiments, but overall they are not comfortable to me.

Good Luck
Thanks
 
To set the bevel 325 DMT is pretty aggressive and for inexperienced honers can cause a lot more of trouble than gains.
I use a 600 grit stone for the heavy work and only rarely go to DMT 325(almost exclusively for wedges).

What you describe as your honing process with tape on 325 and then no tape on 1k is pre-bevel setting. Depending on the honing style the tape can stay if one wants to protect the spine from the stones.

When honing a razor it is very useful to do two things before you begin grinding on the stones. Lay the razor flst on the stone and take a look how the edge contacts the stone, and use marker with a few test passes on the stone to see which stroke gives full contact with the stone. Sometimes you have to do different strokes on each side of the razor to get full contact with the stone. This is a major reason why newbies SHOULD NOT hone at all. An example of the disaster that one can get into:
http://www.straightrazorplace.com/forums/honing/52299-need-honing-advice-uneven-bevel-w-pics.html

In my opinion, best way for a newbie to start is to learn edge maintenance and then after a bit of experience under the belt start touching up DOWN the grit range to learn the stones with minimal damage to the blade.
After one has learned how the stones work and the right strokes and arm stability etc. one can attempt bevel setting. If one wants to start honing from the get go, make sure to have a pro honed razor for reference, but start learning on a beater from eBay.
 
Coticules can do everything with one stone, but I do not feel well versed enough to advise Coticule users. Hopefully a coticule user with experience will contribute their method

Well, here you go:
Bevel correction on a Coticule.
An edge can't develop keenness on a hone before both sides of the cutting bevel are completely flat, all the way up to very edge. It is of equal importance that the edge is free from damage, that accumulates at a microscopic level from the impact with coarse beard hairs.
During what I call "bevel correction stage", we deal with this issue. It is not aimed towards the repair of visible damage, such as a missing chip after a faucet accident, or other mishaps.

The Coticule is used in its fastest mode: with a slurry of milky consistency, and with "halfstrokes". These are diagonal honing strokes, performed back and forth, without flipping the razor. They are performed in the same fashion as half of an X-stroke. One smiling razors you can perform rolling halfstrokes, in the same fashion as you would perform a rolling X-stroke. A finger rests on top of the blade and exerts a mild pressure. (measured with the hone on a "zeroed" kitchen scale: 250-350g or 8.5-12oz). Work with sets of 20-30 halfstrokes, flip the razor (turn it over the spine) and copy the same amount of halfstrokes. The slurry will turn gray. This is a sign that steel particles enter the mixture and it poses no disadvantage.
The easiest way to know when done, is to dull the edge up front, slightly below shaving arm hair level. One stroke over a glass object (a beer bottle works very well), with the edge down and no more pressure than the weight of the razor, will do the trick. If your arm hair is very dense and easy to shave, it might be necessary to repeat this "downstroke" a second time. It takes about one set of halfstrokes to undo the effect of a "downstroke", hence any extra sets you need to perform to reach shaving arm hair level again, is work that was required to establish a flat bevel in the first place. The bevel stage is completed, beyond any suspicion, once the razor shaves arm hair again, along its entire length. There's no real need for the TNT or TPT, who are both excellent methods to probe the edge, but are difficult to read without experience.

There are two caveats:
A. Razor sharpening demands a stable honing stroke that secures an even contact between the razor and the surface of the whetstone. It takes some practice to adopt a satisfactory honing stroke. Aim for precision rather than speed. Speed comes naturally as you gain experience.

B. It's absolutely imperative that you keep the slurry from becoming to dense or dry. While such a slurry may remove steel at a fast rate, the effect on the very edge is that of pushing it through thick mud. You could reduce the width of the razor considerably without ever reaching a keenness that allows to shave arm hair. Bear in mind, that "the next good bevel" never lies far behind the original bevel. Unless there is visual damage to be honed out, the new bevel will not cause a visual narrowing of the blade. To keep the slurry within limits, add a drop of water at the first signs of dehydration. It's no problem to err on the thin side, while erring on the thick side can be an exercise in frustration.

Last week, I made a very quick video of the updated "Dilucot" method, for honing razors entirely on nothing but one Coticule. It shows more than just bevel correction, but all the principles explained above can be seen in the video. It's a bit of a boring repetitious video, for it shows the entire uninterrupted procedure.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zkxyaJLI58k[/YOUTUBE]

Kind regards,
Bart.
 
Sorry for hijacking the thread...Bart...I've always wondered if the Dilucot method can be used with other hones....e.g. the naniwas ?
 
The new dilucot method worked superbly one two wedges I had. I didn't even bother to use BBW after DMT 1.2.

Great work Bart.
 
Sorry for hijacking the thread...Bart...I've always wondered if the Dilucot method can be used with other hones....e.g. the naniwas ?
I don't really know.

The Dilucot approach solves a rather typical Coticule problem: it's fast on slurry, but with a serious limit on the maximum keenness that can be achieved. On water, maximum keenness far less limited, but the hone slows down to a mere polishing.
The dilution method is just one way to bridge the gap between the keenness after slurry and the keenness required for finishing.

You can achieve the same with a progression of increasingly finer synthetic hones. Some people have reported advantages of slurry dilution on other natural hones, but I haven't heard about it on synthetics. Glen experimented a bit with bevel work on a slurried Norton 8K and he reported it could be done.

The big difference between synthetic hones and Coticules (and perhaps also other naturals) seems to be the amount of pressure that can be applied.

Best regards,
Bart.
 
To set the bevel 325 DMT is pretty aggressive and for inexperienced honers can cause a lot more of trouble than gains.
I use a 600 grit stone for the heavy work and only rarely go to DMT 325(almost exclusively for wedges).

What you describe as your honing process with tape on 325 and then no tape on 1k is pre-bevel setting. Depending on the honing style the tape can stay if one wants to protect the spine from the stones.

When honing a razor it is very useful to do two things before you begin grinding on the stones. Lay the razor flst on the stone and take a look how the edge contacts the stone, and use marker with a few test passes on the stone to see which stroke gives full contact with the stone. Sometimes you have to do different strokes on each side of the razor to get full contact with the stone. This is a major reason why newbies SHOULD NOT hone at all. An example of the disaster that one can get into:
http://www.straightrazorplace.com/forums/honing/52299-need-honing-advice-uneven-bevel-w-pics.html

In my opinion, best way for a newbie to start is to learn edge maintenance and then after a bit of experience under the belt start touching up DOWN the grit range to learn the stones with minimal damage to the blade.
After one has learned how the stones work and the right strokes and arm stability etc. one can attempt bevel setting. If one wants to start honing from the get go, make sure to have a pro honed razor for reference, but start learning on a beater from eBay.

Thanks for this info!
 
The dilution method is just one way to bridge the gap between the keenness after slurry and the keenness required for finishing.

Bart, is the BBW w/ slurry completely out of your methods? I love the BBW, it is this hone that gives my blades a great boost of sharpness after their bevels are set and ready for some serious action.
 
U

Utopian

How can such a boring video be so fascinating?
Very nicely done Bart!
 
Sorry for hijacking the thread...Bart...I've always wondered if the Dilucot method can be used with other hones....e.g. the naniwas ?
I very regularly start with slurry on a 1k Chosera and finish with no slurry.
So in my experience yes it works on the lower grits, as far as 3-8k you are not doing much metal removal so slurry is not needed.
 
Bart, is the BBW w/ slurry completely out of your methods? I love the BBW, it is this hone that gives my blades a great boost of sharpness after their bevels are set and ready for some serious action.
I decided to put the answer in a new thread, to avoid hijacking this one.

Bart.
 
Top Bottom