How do you manage your pressure when you hone?

[JPO]

My biggest challenge honing hard and wear resistant razors have been to manage the pressure along the bevel plane.
Hard wear resistant steel can be just as flexible as softer steel. So, getting enough pressure behind the apex to produce a clean edge can be challenging, especially if the bevel is wide, and if the grind is flexible.
Only using light pressure does not fix the underlying physics here. As the steel gets thinner and thinner, you are removing steel at an uneven rate along the bevel. As a result you can start to develop a burr, or other undesirable problems.
So, what is your process?
Do you taper down the pressure, or cycle between different pressures to avoid the apex to lift off the stone and maintain good undercut?
The bevel can also get convexed from inconsistent pressure management, which also lifts the edge off the stone.
Slurry will to some extent help, because it is more effective in front of the bevel, but it also compromises the edge, especially on synthetic stones.

 

[Wid]

Never gave that much thought. I hone harder steel the same as any I suppose. A couple fingers on the spine using a downward/forward stroke. I don’t find the same pressure is needed once the bevel has been set. If using a coticule I’d say there is more torque than steady pressure.

I’ll have to pay more attention when using synthetic stones.

 

[captaincaed]

This has been on my mind a fair bit too.

I'm thinking about it in terms of stone flatness as well as honing pressure. My current plan is having the flattest stone possible and using light pressure without too much torque.

My mental model says a slightly softer hone with a hair of concavity could help the final apex if you’re honing consistently within a fairly regularly shaped hollow. As long as it’s slight. This hollow ought to build up naturally as you hone in the middle of the stone. No coti I got dead flat ever ended dead flat after even just finishing one razor.

For a harder stone like an ark I ran out of ideas and it seems flatness and light pressure and patience is the only thing.

If all else fails, a little kapton tape?

 

[JPO]

This has been on my mind a fair bit too.

I'm thinking about it in terms of stone flatness as well as honing pressure. My current plan is having the flattest stone possible and using light pressure without too much torque.

My mental model says a slightly softer home with a hair of concavity could help the final apex if you’re honing consistently within a fairly regularly shaped hollow. As long as it’s slight. This hollow ought to build up naturally as you hone in the middle of the stone. No coti I got dead flat ever ended dead flat after even just finishing one razor.

For a harder stone like an ark I ran out of ideas and it seems flatness and light pressure and patience is the only thing.

If all else fails, a little kapton tape?

View attachment 1798788

You can also keep the pressure quite even, and use a combination of hard and soft stones.
The soft stones usually create some rounding and can create a clean edge. If this is followed by a harder stone, you can get a really nice edge.
I have done this with good results using jnat's.

 

[Christian1212]

I feel like my pressure is pretty much the same for all of my razors and I get the same good results. Only time I notice a big time difference is if I am honing a wedge or correcting a bevel.

My normal progression is touching up a razor with tenjou or meirjo > koma > tomo. Any bevel resets are 2k shapton glass, 6k shapton glass, then the above touch up sequence (sometimes a 10k glass stone will replace the tenjou/meirjo for me). My synthetics are flattened after each use. My jnat is flattened after a touch up session that includes asano naguras (if just tomo then after 2 or 3 uses).

Last note - I mostly use heljestrand razors or theirs issard. Other razors I use but not as much are; puma, kikuboshi, Portland razor (01), and a WB.

 

[JPO]

My normal progression is touching up a razor with tenjou or meirjo > koma > tomo

When you figure these stones out they are hard to beat. When you are using naguras you are konstantly working at the apex. The slurry is more aggressive at the leading edge. You are compensating a little for the uneven pressure over the bevel.
You are also keeping the edge from getting too thin prematurely.

Both the TI and Heljestrand razors work really well with jnat's in my opinion.
Honing modern hard stainless steel that is both harder and more wear resistant then these is a different situation.

 

[Steve56]

!. Use a stone meant for cutting hard, wear-resistant steel. The Shapton Glass, 7-Series, and Rockstar are examples. The Glass Stones were originally designed to cut hard, wear-resistant semi-stainless Lie-Nielsen A2 plane steel, and they cut modern powder steel knives equally well. The characteristics of these stones means that you can use less pressure.

2. Be sure that the bevel angle is correct. Some steels/brands are prone to forming burrs, unstable edges, and other artifacts. If tape on the spine fixes many of these issues, it means that the bevel angle isn’t right, at least for the stones and methods being used on that particular blade. I want a straight, even edge at high grits and tend to sell off razors that struggle with this, and keep the ones that don’t struggle.

3. I reduce pressure as I approach the end of the honing. If you apply moderate pressure, then use very light pressure, you can see under a loupe that the light pressure strokes are hitting nearer the apex. You need to be using stones that will cut hard steel at light pressure.

Some JNats will cut hard wear-resistant steel while others will not do well. You just have to test them. When I get one in, I test with both diamond plate slurry and clear water, with SLD, R2/SG2, and a whatever else in modern steel is out. I can put two JNats side by side that perform similarly on carbon steel, but one will cut the modern hard steels and the other won’t. Of course, for knives it doesn’t really matter, finishing on a fine Glass Stone works and a pot roast never complains. Getting a smooth natural edge on a modern hard steel razor just rquires some testing.

As far as modern TIs go, I’ve never had any issues. They’re carbon steel and they’re ground thicker than the vintage TIs, so there’s less flex to deal with. Most everything that I’ve used on them works fine. Some of the Swedish razors are extremely hard, but that just means that it takes more time if the blade is thin and flexy. Stiffer hard Swedes are not a problem.

The thinnest blades that require the most pressure management (so far) are the Drees Sistrum and Dreifuss razors. You just can’t use much pressure at all, even normal razor pressure is too much for optimal results.

 

[JPO]

You need to be using stones that will cut hard steel at light pressure

The first WoolfBlades razor I got felt like I was honing on a piece of glass when I used my shapton hr stones.
It also had a wide bevel and a bevel angle of 13.8 deg.
I think the hardness is around 65.
My jnats did cut this steel really well.

I spent hours honing this. I ended up with three layers of tape, and had to hone the bevel at different angles, creating a convex/round bevel.
It's the only razor I have that is maintained with pastes.
He now makes his razors softer.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

“How do you manage your pressure when you hone?”

Play relaxing music, I like Jazz, take deep breaths, and think happy thoughts…

I hone on synthetics to a near mirror polished 10k edge. Joint the edge straight and finish on Jnat or Ark. All the heavy lifting is done on synthetics and naturals for just finishing. Some 1k’s are more aggressive than others but with aggressive stones, come burrs and jagged edges.

If you do not have other aggressive stones, circles will get bevels flat quicker. You will need to refine the bevel stria pattern and edge once flat, to straighten the edge. Once flat, it is all about refining the edge.

Start with pressure, finish each stone with lighter pressure, slight torque.

On really hard razors, Diamond plates and Naniwia 6 & 8k Diamond Stones do the grinding and polishing, finish on naturals. Jointing after 1k Diamond plate, the Diamond Naniwias will leave a mirror finish.

If you must use a lot of pressure or Diamonds, you will make a burr, joint it off and reset the edge in 10 or so laps.

On hollow ground razors you do need to watch your pressure to ensure you are not lifting the edge off the stone, it does not take much to lift the edge.

Look straight down on the edge. If you see shiny reflection, you need more laps on the hone, watch your pressure.

For new honers, this is a common issue.