Gillette Senator or Sheraton?

[Ace McCool]

Hey Gents,

Just picked this up from a local antique shop thinking it was the gold Sheraton. However, it looks like there differences between the two besides the plating, and the one I picked up resembles the Senator.

Is this the gold plated Sheraton in fair condition, or is it the nickel plated Senator that is completely brassed and lost all its plating? It seems like there would be some nickel plating left somewhere if this were the case, but there is none to be found.

 

[ShavinBacon]

I'm no expert here but looking at the end caps, yours looks distinctly like the Senator. The shape is curved the same as the Senator whereas the Sheraton is flat. Also, the Sheraton has 2 rivet holes in the end caps that are not present in the Senators or yours. Just my 2 cents. An expert will be along shortly.

 

[Ace McCool]

I'm no expert here but looking at the end caps, yours looks distinctly like the Senator. The shape is curved the same as the Senator whereas the Sheraton is flat. Also, the Sheraton has 2 rivet holes in the end caps that are not present in the Senators or yours. Just my 2 cents. An expert will be along shortly.

I agree with you for sure that mine looks identical to the Senator. But it also looks gold plated and that is what is throwing me off.

 

[Telecaster52]

the difference in the endcaps is the difference between a '37 and '38

to my eye, the doors look too clean to be brassed nickel, brass could feasibly polished to that lustre but would quickly oxidize sitting in a case at an antique shop. It should clean up pretty easily, just don't go too crazy and wear through what ever plating might be left

looks like a keeper, i love the way the OC TTO's shave

 

[MacDaddy]

During the Sheraton's and also the 30's-style Aristocrat's run Gillette changed the door assembly's construction to be like the Senator's. In my own experience I've seen far more of the older "rivet-style" Sheratons than I have the "Senator-style," so I would guess that the change was closer to the end of their life than to the beginning -- I'd guess something like the beginning of '39, give or take a few months in either direction. But we don't really know for sure yet.

There are certainly some areas on your razor that are worn down to the bare brass, but there are enough other areas there that I'd be fairly confident in saying what you've got is a late-model Sheraton.

 

[jbradley]

Check post #30 here:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...Senator-Can-you-Tell/page2?highlight=sheraton But post #33 contradicts #30. And both have pictures.
I think if you'll read the rest of the 1000 or so post, we determined that it's almost impossible to tell the difference.

 

[Ace McCool]

Well I have cleaned it up a bit, and I am fairly confident that there was never a nickel plating on it. And if they did in fact change the Sheraton construction to match the Senators then this explains the mismatch from the photos on Achim's site and my confusion.

In that case I agree it is probably a Sheraton with some brassing, and not a Senator with 100% of the nickel plating gone.

 

[jbradley]

Pretty sure we decided that the 37 Sheraton had rivet holes, after that they were identical except for the plating.

 

[alex2363]

During the Sheraton's and also the 30's-style Aristocrat's run Gillette changed the door assembly's construction to be like the Senator's. In my own experience I've seen far more of the older "rivet-style" Sheratons than I have the "Senator-style," so I would guess that the change was closer to the end of their life than to the beginning -- I'd guess something like the beginning of '39, give or take a few months in either direction. But we don't really know for sure yet.

There are certainly some areas on your razor that are worn down to the bare brass, but there are enough other areas there that I'd be fairly confident in saying what you've got is a late-model Sheraton.

yes the design change began in the end cycle 1939, then in 1940 they stopped making TTO Open Combs altogether.

 

[alex2363]

Pretty sure we decided that the 37 Sheraton had rivet holes, after that they were identical except for the plating.

Yes or no...the Gillette mysteries continue ( I always concur with Porter and his theories when i become too baffled by the uncertainties)

 

[MacDaddy]

Pretty sure we decided that the 37 Sheraton had rivet holes, after that they were identical except for the plating.

If that were true it would mean that the Sheraton was only made for one year out of its three-year run with the riveted assembly, and I would think we would see far more of the later style than we do. I see no reason to think that the Sheraton changed the instant the Senator came out.

 

[Sunflake]

I don't think they ever made a gold Senator, did they? So it should be a Sheraton. Mine was easy to ID Gold with rivets= '37 Sheraton.

 

[alex2363]

Let me throw this into the fray .......

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...ator-Sheraton-Head-Profile-A-Photo-Comparison

 

[jbradley]

If that were true it would mean that the Sheraton was only made for one year out of its three-year run with the riveted assembly, and I would think we would see far more of the later style than we do. I see no reason to think that the Sheraton changed the instant the Senator came out.

I certainly won't argue. I'm still learning, and have a LONG way to go. The only reason I would say they would change would be the extra runs of parts. We know Gillette had no problem mixing and matching, I can't see them running parts that similar when one run would do. But on the other hand, Gillette never has followed normal logic!

 

[Ace McCool]

I don't think they ever made a gold Senator, did they? So it should be a Sheraton. Mine was easy to ID Gold with rivets= '37 Sheraton.

Sunflake,

No they didn't make a gold senator. The Gold Senator is called a Sheraton. Nobody said they made a gold senator, the question was because mine looked gold like the Sheraton but did not match Achims photo, so I was wondering if it was possible to have a Senator that had lost 100% of it's nickel without a trace.

 

[alex2363]

I certainly won't argue. I'm still learning, and have a LONG way to go. The only reason I would say they would change would be the extra runs of parts. We know Gillette had no problem mixing and matching, I can't see them running parts that similar when one run would do. But on the other hand, Gillette never has followed normal logic!

The Gillette company and its unexplained mysteries has led Porter to earn a Masters and PHD degerees in Gillette Mystries, He can either figure them out or come to a logical conclusion that most likely will fit the bill. If I do contradict him it may be due to bad or incorrect research findings from other outside sources . I never give my opinions based on guessing or uneducated guesses. I research 1st then post. Porter has the history of Gillette in Wiki timeline and all of the information there is spectacular. A very good source of Gillette history info.

 

[nemo]

Here's a pic of a couple I still own -- I've sold a few, 'cause I like SS and Rockets better.

I do remember selling one gold without the rivet holes. Man, that plating is thin!

 

[alex2363]

I don't think they ever made a gold Senator, did they? So it should be a Sheraton. Mine was easy to ID Gold with rivets= '37 Sheraton.

They called it a Sheraton 1938. Same razor different plateing.

 

[alex2363]

Here's a pic of a couple I still own -- I've sold a few, 'cause I like SS and Rockets better.

I do remember selling one gold without the rivet holes. Man, that plating is thin!

A senator?

 

[nemo]

A senator?

Alex, if you are referring to the plating being thin, it was the Sheraton. It's a gold wash directly on brass, unlike the gold over nickel that later appeared on the Aristocrats.