Favorite Hones for mild edge

[Stygo]

I've been experimenting with different natural stones, and have bonded with a couple of jnats that I'm getting great HHT and shaves on my face from. There is still learning and tuning to do (like searching for perfect Tomo), but I think this is a longer term game.

In addition to shaving my face, I also shave my head with the SR. Could be lots of things (more bone, technique, thinner skin, going blind behind the head), but my "best" - close/keen/comfortable honing efforts for my face are often a little too unforgiving on the melon.

I've been experimenting with a Coti on one my razors to see if I can get that skill working and and also find options for "effective but forgiving" on the head. I'm still working on maxing out the Coti - currently getting "not cutting myself, but not quite close enough" results on the head.

Do you all have a favorite set of stones or method of dialing back to get something more on the forgiving side?

 

[SliceOfLife]

Jnat pdso coti or thuri would be my choice.

Maybe also get a more soothing/moisturizing aftershave or lotion for postshave?

 

[Wid]

If I feel the need to dial an edge back it's going to a coticule. I could see a pasted strop working too

 

[Gamma]

The world mild can mean a lot of things. I think all of my razors are mild - as in - not harsh.
Jnat edges are not harsh, or harsher, than coticule edges unless the user honed it poorly.
Sometimes a hyper-keen edge will seem to be very tedious, if that was problematic (head shaving) I would just not push the edge that far. I would not agree that a super sharp edge is inherently harsh though. Aggressive perhaps, but not necessarily harsh. But it could be harsh, if it was honed incorrectly.

There was a vendor who once claimed that Jnat edges were like diamond pated edges. People read that and believed it because, well, you know he sold razors...lol. He was wrong, as often was the case with such opinions, but the myth carried on.

In my experience, harshness mostly comes from poorly executed honing. Often, it's bad bevel work.
Along with sharpness, most smoothness is also developed in the early work.

If we are talking about the difference between, lets say the edge from a soft La Grise Coti and one off of a super hard Jnat - I will say the Coti is going to make a more convex bevel and only be able to take the edge but so far in the sense of edge width and overall sharpness. The Jnat can be handled any number of ways, and in the right hands it may be capable to take the edge to a shaper degree. But it doesn't need to happen that way. So, again, it's honing skill related.

In general, Coti edges are usually said to be more 'mellow' than others. I have made some very brisk and keen edges off some Coticules. Stone choice and honing skills matter.
With this topic, I don't think making global assumptions yields an accurate picture.

Paste edges often take on that grabby harsh feeling. They don't have to do that but when used that way they will often create such edges. Pastes always have a certain type of feel but that feel doesn't always have to be so very problematic. I prefer natural stone edges but I can usable/good results from finishing compounds. The exception, for me, is diamond slurry/paste/etc. I just don't like the way those edges feel regardless of the technique used.

When paste edges get miserable, the issue is often extensive disruptions at the apex, foil edge, burrs, saw tooth edges, etc.
I would either re-hone it or maybe put it on an Escher to chill the problem out for the moment. The right thing to do is to start over but sometimes I might be looking to see what does what and when and how.

A well honed edge finished correctly on a well-dressed super hard Ark (translucent or similar) can be super duper sharp but also 'smart' in the sense that it seems to only want to cut hair and not skin. Takes a lot to get there though. It's not an add-water-and-stir type of result. Over the years a lot of guys say their Arks make harsh edges. I don't have their stones or their edges here but I have to assume there is a carp-ton of user error in those storylines. Might be some people think they own a super hard Ark when they don't... .not sure. What I do know is that every time I finish on a Translucent, or SB, or similar grade stone those edges are magnificent and never aggressive without it being forced.

 

[swellcat]

Most smoothness is also developed in the early work.

That's kind of counterintuitive (which is not to argue with it), but it could also be liberating from the chase for the ancient, rarefied, white-whale finishers.

How does one cultivate or lay the groundwork for smoothness while bevel-setting at say, 1000 to 3000-grit, @Gamma?

 

[Gamma]

It's only counterintuitive if one does not understand what the process of honing is all about.
Honing - sharpening - etc - is done by scratching the steel.
By progressing through finer and finer grits - essentially, we are healing the steel. Removing the deeper scratches and replacing them with finer ones.
Think about it - do you want to drag a rake or a mustache comb over your cheeks?
Then there's the straightening of the 'line' we call the apex.
The straighter that line, the smoother the cut. Proper bevel work produces that line.
The Nail test, when done correctly, will tell you if you have a line or a lasagne noodle.

 

[lightfoot]

The next time you experience a harsh edge check the razor right after the shave for edge condition. Sometimes a blade that looks great before the shave may appear to have a toothy appearance afterwards. I’m always looking for ways to make sure the edge is going tohold up during the shave and if not I have to find out why.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Does it start out harsh? My nephew head shaves with a straight and finds he has to strop between passes where he can do multiple passes on the face without additional stropping.

 

[Empire straights]

If you're already trying out a coticule is recommend trying a white Tam O'shanter. They're pretty much fool proof, produce very keen smooth edges.

 

[Stygo]

Does it start out harsh? My nephew head shaves with a straight and finds he has to strop between passes where he can do multiple passes on the face without additional stropping.

I wouldn't say it starts out harsh necessarily. My head hair is naturally sparser and softer than my beard, so I end up needing to strop less frequently. The jnat edge is great on my face and I rarely make "mistakes" with it. The head is different - feels great on the fleshier areas I can see (similar to face). When I'm rounding the bony edge on the top/back or when I'm working out of sight behind my head is when I'm more likely to get myself with a less forgiving edge. Hard to call it "aggressive" because it feels perfect for my face.

The Coti edge was totally forgiving back there. I have some scars that it could slide right over with a light touch where the keener edge I have to be very careful not to catch. Coti might end up being awesome once I perfect it, looking for a bit more ATG. But... I'm also looking for other things to try out - partly for the fun of it.

I may be trying to compensate for poor head shaving technique with a more forgiving edge, but there you go! Different tools perhaps for different jobs.

 

[JPO]

I wouldn't say it starts out harsh necessarily. My head hair is naturally sparser and softer than my beard, so I end up needing to strop less frequently. The jnat edge is great on my face and I rarely make "mistakes" with it. The head is different - feels great on the fleshier areas I can see (similar to face). When I'm rounding the bony edge on the top/back or when I'm working out of sight behind my head is when I'm more likely to get myself with a less forgiving edge. Hard to call it "aggressive" because it feels perfect for my face.

The Coti edge was totally forgiving back there. I have some scars that it could slide right over with a light touch where the keener edge I have to be very careful not to catch. Coti might end up being awesome once I perfect it, looking for a bit more ATG. But... I'm also looking for other things to try out - partly for the fun of it.

I may be trying to compensate for poor head shaving technique with a more forgiving edge, but there you go! Different tools perhaps for different jobs.

You can also use your jnat to just inhance your coticule edge. Just do some light slurry work, and test the edge. If you need more refinement, just fine tune it by doing some more work on the jnat.
You can also tone down a jnat edge with a coticule.
Try different things.

 

[Kyle89]

If I want that smooth "can't cut yaself" feeling edge, I either finish on my ILR, my Coticule, or take an 8k edge and finish it on my Black Ark. Ever since I tried taking an 8k edge straight to the Arkansas stone I think that's my favorite edge now.

 

[Empire straights]

If I want that smooth "can't cut yaself" feeling edge, I either finish on my ILR, my Coticule, or take an 8k edge and finish it on my Black Ark. Ever since I tried taking an 8k edge straight to the Arkansas stone I think that's my favorite edge now.

Watch those ark edges. They're smooth but if fine tight they will bite and bite deep. I've gone to bone several times(not on my face with a razor) but.... they don't feel like they bite but they absolutly will.

 

[Kyle89]

Watch those ark edges. They're smooth but if fine tight they will bite and bite deep. I've gone to bone several times(not on my face with a razor) but.... they don't feel like they bite but they absolutly will.

Frankly since I've started honing (and getting into knife sharpening) I'm surprised I haven't had to go in for stitches yet! Keyword yet.

Off of my 8k (and not spending a super long amount of time on the black ark) yields a milder edge in my opinion, versus taking a 12k edge to the ark. Regardless of finisher though, we are playing with sharp objects which I'm sure won't hesitate to reach bone if tickled. Thanks for the reminder though, I need to restock the superglue in my kit.

 

[Frank Shaves]

You should consider pulling on the Coticule thread. I have a couple of recenty-mined La Veinette stones from AC that when used with water produce sharp but smooth, gentle-feeling edges. To get one, email AC and tell Rob what you are trying to accomplish.

 

[Legion]

I like a good TOS or WOA for that. Feels like a good coti edge, but is very fool proof and easy. No learning curve at all.

 

[kcb5150]

Honestly, I think a lot of people getting rough edges probably underwork the low midrange and midrange. It's an easy mistake to make. Another mistake are the slurry everything crew. Some stones when you slurry them leave something rough as hell in their wake.

 

[Mr Kooby Shemayrew]

I’ll be the one that *goes against the grain* here. I love a SR for my face but for my dome, I would have to choose a nice DE razor with a Feather blade.

Now there is that Chinese barber that dry shaves people’s heads. I’m not on that level, but darn, I wish I was.

 

[J B Addis]

If you already have a known good JNat, perhaps try finishing on a slightly thicker than normal slurry.

 

[Stygo]

I’ll be the one that *goes against the grain* here. I love a SR for my face but for my dome, I would have to choose a nice DE razor with a Feather blade.

Thought about that, but am trying to (somewhat) limit the amount of stuff. I also like not needing any disposable blades.

Maybe more so than honing, I need to improve technique on saving the crown area and out of sight scars - much harder for me to maintain consistent blade angle back there. I saw one suggestion to use two hands on blade, still need to try that.

I'll try out some of the suggestions here and keep working on maxing out the Coti (good excuse to spend time on it) and mixing it with Jnat. Intrigued by some of the other suggestions (WOA, TOS), will keep those in mind. Last night I tried bumping the previous Coti honed edge with a small trans ark (~50x). Worked better on the head, but I think I need to redo that one from start as my Coti powers are still weak.