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EJ Kelvin with DE89 Head - Review, Photos, Measurements, Photo Analysis

Thanks. Yes, I use the tape just as you described, except the tape that worked for me was black, electrical tape. I think I needed two strips. If "reverse shim" refers to metal only, then scratch my term. In any case, if it wasn't for use of tape as discussed, I likely would have returned or sold off my Blackbird.

I hear what you're saying about using tape strips under the top cap edges. It can really improve a razor. When I searched B&B about the use of tape, I only found one member who wrote about it. Did you say anything here about your mod? Should I start a separate thread about the use of tape and shims to tailor aggressiveness?
 
Should I start a separate thread about the use of tape and shims to tailor aggressiveness?

I would find that interesting.

I think there are a lot of razors out there that people are using and they're, like, 90% happy with how they feel. Having some sort of reasonable way to get a little closer to 100% is a worthwhile idea, IMO.
 
I hear what you're saying about using tape strips under the top cap edges. It can really improve a razor. When I searched B&B about the use of tape, I only found one member who wrote about it. Did you say anything here about your mod? Should I start a separate thread about the use of tape and shims to tailor aggressiveness?

I don't think I mentioned it here. I believe on another forum I did. But go ahead, it might help some frustrated traditional wet shavers!
 
I would find that interesting.

I think there are a lot of razors out there that people are using and they're, like, 90% happy with how they feel. Having some sort of reasonable way to get a little closer to 100% is a worthwhile idea, IMO.

Yes. Absolutely. I remember when I had broached this topic elsewhere, it ran into a little resistance, as some felt they shouldn't have to do a lot of tinkering when buying an expensive razor. And I get that. But some of us like to tinker, or for whatever reason, like to fix something that just ain't 100%. I'm guilty of that.
 
I would find that interesting.

I think there are a lot of razors out there that people are using and they're, like, 90% happy with how they feel. Having some sort of reasonable way to get a little closer to 100% is a worthwhile idea, IMO.

I agree. I'll post a thread soon.

I don't think I mentioned it here. I believe on another forum I did. But go ahead, it might help some frustrated traditional wet shavers!

I knew that I wasn't the first to use tape under the top cap edges, but there isn't much written about this. I might be the first to picture the use of tape, especially with respect to blade exposure with and without the use of shims. There are probably others like you that have used tape. I agree that a thread could be helpful.

Yes. Absolutely. I remember when I had broached this topic elsewhere, it ran into a little resistance, as some felt they shouldn't have to do a lot of tinkering when buying an expensive razor. And I get that. But some of us like to tinker, or for whatever reason, like to fix something that just ain't 100%. I'm guilty of that.

I get that, too. I don't want to mess around with tape, but it makes the razor work better for me. Ideally, I'd like to find a razor that doesn't need tinkering, but with limited options right now, I don't mind tinkering so much. If I paid a lot of money for a razor, though, I wouldn't want to tinker with it and I might be upset if I had to do that for the razor to work well for me.
 
Very professional review, ShavingByTheNumbers.

Thanks for the time and effort. I think you may have set the standard, here.

I hear what you're saying about using tape strips under the top cap edges. It can really improve a razor. When I searched B&B about the use of tape, I only found one member who wrote about it. Did you say anything here about your mod? Should I start a separate thread about the use of tape and shims to tailor aggressiveness?
I'm likely going to try shimming my DE89 before long, and would welcome a shimming/reverse shimming thread.

I'm a born tinkerer. Since my first bicycle. Maybe before that. Anything I own, I want to optimize!
 
Very professional review, ShavingByTheNumbers.

Thanks for the time and effort. I think you may have set the standard, here.

You're welcome. This is all part of a long-term project to measure and correlate razor dimensions with razor performance. I want to understand the mechanics and find the best razor for me while helping others do the same.

I'm likely going to try shimming my DE89 before long, and would welcome a shimming/reverse shimming thread.

I'm a born tinkerer. Since my first bicycle. Maybe before that. Anything I own, I want to optimize!

I like optimization, too. I will start a thread on the use of tape and shims. I was thinking about reusing the picture above that shows no modification, tape only, and the use of both tape and a shim. I don't consider tape to be a "reverse shim" because that term implies, and seems to be used to mean, a shim on top of the blade. Reverse shimming should probably be discussed, though, to talk about the three modifications for tailoring aggressiveness and efficiency: shims, reverse shims, and tape strips under cap edges. In general, (a) shims increase blade exposure, increase guard span, increase blade angle, and decrease handle angle, (b) reverse shims decrease blade exposure, increase cap span, increase blade angle, and decrease handle angle, and (c) tape strips under cap edges decrease blade exposure, decrease guard span, increase cap span, and decrease blade angle. I think that's right. The choice of blade could be considered a fourth option, since different blades have different blade widths. Blade width is often overlooked compared to considerations of sharpness and smoothness. I'd put this stuff into a better form with illustrations. How does that sound? Comments from anyone? Suggestions?
 
You're welcome. This is all part of a long-term project to measure and correlate razor dimensions with razor performance. I want to understand the mechanics and find the best razor for me while helping others do the same.



I like optimization, too. I will start a thread on the use of tape and shims. I was thinking about reusing the picture above that shows no modification, tape only, and the use of both tape and a shim. I don't consider tape to be a "reverse shim" because that term implies, and seems to be used to mean, a shim on top of the blade. Reverse shimming should probably be discussed, though, to talk about the three modifications for tailoring aggressiveness and efficiency: shims, reverse shims, and tape strips under cap edges. In general, (a) shims increase blade exposure, increase guard span, increase blade angle, and decrease handle angle, (b) reverse shims decrease blade exposure, increase cap span, increase blade angle, and decrease handle angle, and (c) tape strips under cap edges decrease blade exposure, decrease guard span, increase cap span, and decrease blade angle. I think that's right. The choice of blade could be considered a fourth option, since different blades have different blade widths. Blade width is often overlooked compared to considerations of sharpness and smoothness. I'd put this stuff into a better form with illustrations. How does that sound? Comments from anyone? Suggestions?
I'd be happy to comment in that proposed thread, as to anything obvious that jumps out.

I think your picture showing how you derived the blade exposure and other geometry is phenomenal. I think it has a higher tutorial value than simply being in a razor review, and it might be a good starting point for a discussion thread.

Great work by the way, in that pic.
 
I'd be happy to comment in that proposed thread, as to anything obvious that jumps out.

I think your picture showing how you derived the blade exposure and other geometry is phenomenal. I think it has a higher tutorial value than simply being in a razor review, and it might be a good starting point for a discussion thread.

Great work by the way, in that pic.

Thanks. :001_smile I probably won't be doing detailed photo analysis for the aggressiveness tailoring thread, but I will probably take pretty good pictures and physically check blade exposures like I did for that picture that shows no modification, tape added, and both tape and one shim added.
 
Impressive analysis Grant, well done sir.

I'm interested in what you used to take the photos. I've tried this with a FF DLSR and macro lens but didn't get the result you did.
 
Impressive analysis Grant, well done sir.

I'm interested in what you used to take the photos. I've tried this with a FF DLSR and macro lens but didn't get the result you did.

Thanks. I'm glad that you like it. I took the close-up photos with an old Canon PowerShot SD1200 with it set to its largest image size of 10 megapixels and with the flash turned off. Of course, I used the macro setting. I'm no photographer, but even with my old digital camera, I am able to take photos that are good enough for good analysis. The setup is the trick. The photos for the composite picture on tailoring aggressiveness with tape and shimming were taken with a quick and easy setup with the razor laying down and me using a stack of books to hold the camera steady while angling the camera down and aligned with the side view. I always take several photos and pick the best one because a lot of pictures will not be sharp enough. Those quick-setup photos are good, but not good enough for photo analysis, in my opinion. For the photo analysis pictures, I really take care to keep the camera as still as possible. That is really important for capturing the blade and razor profile with as much sharpness as I can get. In this case, the razor is propped up with right-angle pieces and considerable time is taken to prop up the camera with flat pieces of wood while making the camera look down the razor's edge. I'd rather not go on about the details here, but someday, I should write more about it and show the setup.
 
^ You'll have to excuse my ignorance, because I've only used my smartphone for pics for the last several years.
But... don't they do tripods and cable releases any more? :001_unsur
 
^ You'll have to excuse my ignorance, because I've only used my smartphone for pics for the last several years.
But... don't they do tripods and cable releases any more? :001_unsur

Now that I've looked up what a cable release is... :001_smile ...yes, they still make them. I've seen a cable release before, but I didn't even think about getting one. I did a quick search on the Internet and my Canon PowerShot user manual and it doesn't seem like the camera can handle a cable release. However, a tripod or two could be handy. I haven't spent any extra money on photography, but given the money that I've spent on other tools for measuring razors and blades, I might as well get a tripod! I was thinking that I'd eventually get a new camera. I know that all of them can handle a tripod, but now I know to make sure that the camera can handle a cable release. Thanks, Cal! :thumbup1:
 
It's nowhere near as good, but you could always use the Self Timer to give you a two or ten second delay Grant.

I never use the timer. I don't think that I'd be able to use it because the way that I know how to use my camera is to half-press the button for getting the focus and then fully pressing down to take the picture. I might be able to set the camera focus and then set the timer to take the shot. That would be advanced photography for me.
 
Makes sense that a small sensor would get a better result, a FF just doesn't have the depth of field at this distance.

Time to read the fine manual, sir. ;)
 
Interesting that your analysis shows the DE89 to be somewhat aggressive, while most say it feels too mild.

Great work! Keep doing it!
 
I reckon some RTFM is in order. :wink2:

Makes sense that a small sensor would get a better result, a FF just doesn't have the depth of field at this distance.

Time to read the fine manual, sir. ;)

I get good pictures with what I'm doing now, but there is room for improvement, no doubt. I do wish that I was able to take pictures from farther away, and I push the distance as large as I can, but I can't get too far away before the picture I get loses quality.
 
Interesting that your analysis shows the DE89 to be somewhat aggressive, while most say it feels too mild.

Great work! Keep doing it!

Thanks. Based on my personal experience with the EJ Kelvin, I wasn't surprised by the measurements. I think that the DE89 head can bite you with its larger guard span, but with lighter pressure and the DE89's small positive blade exposure, it isn't particularly efficient. So, overall, I think that most of us get the impression that it's mild---hence, its 2.5 out of 10 aggressiveness score----but it can be too aggressive for some depending on their skin and hair.

I'm going to keep doing this stuff. I've already taken pictures and measurements for the Bevel, with the exception of photo analysis that will be different in this case since the Bevel covers up the sides. The Bevel will be interesting with many differences from what I'm used to. It is heavier with apparently significantly less guard span and seemingly more blade exposure than the EJ Kelvin. I picked the Bevel specifically for smaller guard span, so I'm glad that it looks like I made the right choice. In any event, shaving with it will be a good learning experience that I will eventually write about.
 
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