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EJ Kelvin with DE89 Head - Review, Photos, Measurements, Photo Analysis

Yes this was an amazing review. One thing that is a bit perplexing is why you consider the R89 to be aggressive?

Most folks consider it to be quite mild and not terribly efficient, though personally I also think it may be a tad on the rough side. Is this where you’re getting the aggressive from?

In any case I’m going to have to try the tape trick, that’s a new one on me. Nice!
 
Yes this was an amazing review. One thing that is a bit perplexing is why you consider the R89 to be aggressive?

Most folks consider it to be quite mild and not terribly efficient, though personally I also think it may be a tad on the rough side. Is this where you’re getting the aggressive from?

My review of the EJ Kelvin (with the same DE89 head as other EJ razors) is based on my experience and analysis alone. I find the DE89 head to be aggressive with respect to guard span and maybe even with respect to blade exposure. The guard span is too large for my taste, allowing too much skin to bunch up in front of the blade and giving the razor the ability to bite me and make the shave more irritating, too. The blade angle is also effectively increased as this happens, which drops the efficiency, I think, making shaves not as close as desired. The blade exposure might also be too large for my taste, but that issue takes a back seat to the guard span issue. The tape strips are great in this case because they drop the guard span and the blade exposure at the same time, which worked better for me here.

In any case I’m going to have to try the tape trick, that’s a new one on me. Nice!

Cool! I'm not the first to do it, but I'm apparently the first to show it. I hope that others learn about it and keep it in mind as an option for razor modification.
 
Yes this was an amazing review. One thing that is a bit perplexing is why you consider the R89 to be aggressive?

Most folks consider it to be quite mild and not terribly efficient, though personally I also think it may be a tad on the rough side. Is this where you’re getting the aggressive from?

In any case I’m going to have to try the tape trick, that’s a new one on me. Nice!
Aggressivness is a pretty subjective issue. Also, it depends what blade he used.
 
Great review! I dont feel like that handle looks anything like a 34C though, it reminds me more of the Muhle R89 handle.

Thanks! I get what you're saying. My comparison to the Merkur 34C was broad and more about length in that Edwin Jagger, through the EJ Kelvin, offers an alternative to their usual longer handles. The EJ Kelvin is kind of a hybrid.

Aggressivness is a pretty subjective issue. Also, it depends what blade he used.

I tried many different blades with the EJ Kelvin. I believe that's mentioned in my review.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
Outstanding review!

Interesting that your analysis shows the DE89 to be somewhat aggressive, while most say it feels too mild.

I find my Jagger (a 3D Diamond, not a Kelvin) gives me the easiest shave of all my 4 DE razors. For my face, it's a bit of a Goldilocks razor (not too aggressive, not too mild), and gives a very efficient performance every time. It requires less thought and attention of me than my others, and yet always delivers a good shave.

This is obviously a very personal perspective, but this razor along with the other three I own (Wilkinson Classic, Merkur 985, and Parker 22 Interceptor) which all have their own character, leaves me not wanting any other DE razors. Should I lose all my razors in some freak occurrence, the 3D Diamond would be the main (first) one that I would seek to replace.

The 3D Diamond also has good grip, and I have never found control of this razor lacking in any way.
 
... this razor along with the other three I own (Wilkinson Classic, Merkur 985, and Parker 22 Interceptor) which all have their own character, leaves me not wanting any other DE razors.
:laugh: I betcha, in the not too distant future, you'll have (nearly terminal) RAD and that "M" in your signature will disappear Al.

Fortunately/unfortunately (?) I speak from experience. :001_rolle
upload_2017-11-11_13-38-52.png
:letterk1: :laugh:
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
:laugh: I betcha, in the not too distant future, you'll have (nearly terminal) RAD and that "M" in your signature will disappear Al.

Fortunately/unfortunately (?) I speak from experience. :001_rolle
View attachment 836769 :letterk1: :laugh:

:biggrin:

Highly unlikely Cal. I have fallen down rabbit holes before on other hobbies, and came to regret it every time. I'm now largely desensitised to the allure of something new for the sake of something new, when what I already have is working. The "hobby" side of shaving for me will be improving my own abilities, including the restoration of a few vintage hollow ground razors that I have, and learning to use those. As I seem to be able to get a good shave with any combination of the four different razors, and 18 different blades that I've currently got kicking around here, another DE won't give me anything I don't already have. Same deal with brushes and soaps. One brush and soap at home, and one shave stick in the travel kit is how I wish to stay.

The hollow grind razors are a different matter. There's restoration work, both of the razors and making new strops, learning to hone, learning to shave with them - there is a real exploration to be had there. Although again, aside from possibly a finishing hone, I already have all the essentials I'll need for that journey, and expect that I will settle on my favourites of those items (and part company with the rest), rather than want to expand into other areas.

It's tough to be an Aimless Wanderer if you're too bogged down in unnecessary baggage ;)
 
Well, first of all... you’re review is amazing.

But damn! I never thought anyone could find the DE89 too aggressive. :eek6:

I thought this was one of the most forgiving razors out there.
You know, a “starters” razor.

Thanks! I hear you. I think that the EJ DE89 and similar razors are good beginner's razors on the whole, but that doesn't mean that it's a good beginner's razor for everyone. If I had started with the Edwin Jagger, I might have given up on DE shaving before I really started because of its aggressiveness to me. The guard span is too large in my opinion, and I'm not a fan of the blade exposure, either, which is why I use the modification that I wrote about. If I were to pick a beginner's razor, I'd pick one with less guard span for smoother, easier use that would make the transition to DE shaving much easier.

Outstanding review!

I find my Jagger (a 3D Diamond, not a Kelvin) gives me the easiest shave of all my 4 DE razors. For my face, it's a bit of a Goldilocks razor (not too aggressive, not too mild), and gives a very efficient performance every time. It requires less thought and attention of me than my others, and yet always delivers a good shave.

This is obviously a very personal perspective, but this razor along with the other three I own (Wilkinson Classic, Merkur 985, and Parker 22 Interceptor) which all have their own character, leaves me not wanting any other DE razors. Should I lose all my razors in some freak occurrence, the 3D Diamond would be the main (first) one that I would seek to replace.

The 3D Diamond also has good grip, and I have never found control of this razor lacking in any way.

Thanks! Some people, such as yourself, really like their Edwin Jaggers. Some others, such as myself, don't. I really like the quality of the razor for its price. Unfortunately, it doesn't work great for me.
 
Thanks for another great review! Your findings mirror my personal impressions.

The Mühle R89 was my first safety razor, followed by a Fasan Bakelite Slant and a Fatip OC. Compared to these two razors, I thought it was too mild and inefficient with a small effective angle. I actually didn't use it for a long time. But after several years, more experience, improved technique and more (milder) razors to campare it to, I've found that it gives me the best overall shave. Efficient but smooth enough to go ATG on my face. And yet it sometimes gives me a few weepers on my neck. So, in the end, I think it could be just a tad less aggressive too. :)

By the way: we all know the head is made of a chrome-plated zinc alloy. However, Mühle recently changed the thread on the top cap to brass. The thread on mine was already heavily damaged and after e-mailing Mühle I got a replacement head (8 years after the initial purchase!). The top cap of this new head weighs roughly 3g more than the old one and has an engraved '4' on its underside. I don't know about the Edwin Jagger heads - if they actually share the same production line they should have brass threads as well by now.
 
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I tried the blue painters tape method today, wow, so much smoother. First pass I did without shims, and it felt like it didn’t really do anything, but adding two shims and this became a very smooth shave. I wouldn’t say it was efficient and as normal I had to do a some buffing on my problem areas. But the buffing was so much nicer on my skin, and very care free.

Also I found this set up to be by far the most chatter free set up I’ve rigged on this razor and ATG was quite easy, whereas before on my chin it was impossible with two shims.

Interestingly to me, I actually felt less need for pressure with this set up as well, even though it is quite mild.

Now since this is my only razor, can any of you pros tell me what would be an similar razor. I don’t mind tweaking the set up but at some point I’d rather find a razor with similar characteristics. I’m starting to think I’m one of those that genuinely prefer a milder style razor.

In part that’s also due to one of my trouble areas being right at the inner edge of the corner of my lips and it feels that anything too aggressive would be risky there.
 
Awesome review. I didn't fully appreciate the difficulty of measuring and photographing chromed objects until this morning. Getting my Samsung Galaxy S7's autofocus to capture a macro photo is hard enough, but when the surface is reflective, it's 10 times harder. It is made dramatically more difficult by the fact that the blade is curved over a radius, and recessed inside the guard making measurement even by the human eye extraordinarily difficult. I measured the free-end distance of the RR Old Type, Fatip Grande, and RR Teck II, and EJ DE89. It was incredibly challenging with a micrometer and eyeball.

I'm going to try a new methodology that I think will eliminate the issue of reflection and perspective bias. I'm going to take all the curves, and reflections and recesses out of the equation by simply dipping the razor and blade in paint. That should make measuring free-end distance and clamping distance much, much more accurate for me. I'll let the paint dry and simply take the razor blade out of the razor. The line between paint and metal will be very crisp, and flat, and easy to measure with a micrometer. I should be able to get down to .02mm accuracy with this method. I'm guessing I'm barely at .2mm accuracy using my eyeball.

Does anybody have an idea of what kind of paint to use so I can get it back off easily???
 
Along with everyone else, you did an exhaustive, detailed review like none I have seen before. Thank you.
You mentioned you believe guard span is large enough to cause bunching, allowing the blade to bite. You also mentioned your impression that the polished chrome requires more hydration to yeild the same slickness as other razor finishes. Perhaps the culprit is your lather, not the EJ head. Maybe you have extra hard water, or are using soaps/creams which make a lather with less cushion or slickness than others. I find the most cushioning with MWF and the most slickness with Kiss My Face Aqua. Perhaps there is a creme or soap that will reduce or eliminate that bunching issue for you?
 
Along with everyone else, you did an exhaustive, detailed review like none I have seen before. Thank you.
You mentioned you believe guard span is large enough to cause bunching, allowing the blade to bite. You also mentioned your impression that the polished chrome requires more hydration to yeild the same slickness as other razor finishes. Perhaps the culprit is your lather, not the EJ head. Maybe you have extra hard water, or are using soaps/creams which make a lather with less cushion or slickness than others. I find the most cushioning with MWF and the most slickness with Kiss My Face Aqua. Perhaps there is a creme or soap that will reduce or eliminate that bunching issue for you?

Thanks. I learned, with the help of you guys here, that I needed to make better lather, and I've been doing that. In fact, before switching razors recently, I was using the EJ Kelvin in optimizing lather, so I've used lather with much more and much less water for different soaps from Stirling to L&L Grooming to B&M Latha and others. My water is moderately hard, i.e., fairly normal, as best as I know from public records.
 
Awesome review. I didn't fully appreciate the difficulty of measuring and photographing chromed objects until this morning. Getting my Samsung Galaxy S7's autofocus to capture a macro photo is hard enough, but when the surface is reflective, it's 10 times harder. It is made dramatically more difficult by the fact that the blade is curved over a radius, and recessed inside the guard making measurement even by the human eye extraordinarily difficult. I measured the free-end distance of the RR Old Type, Fatip Grande, and RR Teck II, and EJ DE89. It was incredibly challenging with a micrometer and eyeball.

I'm going to try a new methodology that I think will eliminate the issue of reflection and perspective bias. I'm going to take all the curves, and reflections and recesses out of the equation by simply dipping the razor and blade in paint. That should make measuring free-end distance and clamping distance much, much more accurate for me. I'll let the paint dry and simply take the razor blade out of the razor. The line between paint and metal will be very crisp, and flat, and easy to measure with a micrometer. I should be able to get down to .02mm accuracy with this method. I'm guessing I'm barely at .2mm accuracy using my eyeball.

Does anybody have an idea of what kind of paint to use so I can get it back off easily???

Whoa! Stop! I love the enthusiasm, but YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAINT YOUR RAZORS! I wouldn't do that. You're right about reflections and recesses making photo analysis more difficult. I'm glad that you're trying to do it. It's not easy, I know. You should know that I've really improved my techniques. I take a lot of different photos now that allow me to be very accurate now and not sweat about taking the perfect picture in trying to capture the cutting edge, which has its shortcomings anyway. Nevertheless, a good picture, if captured, is usually good enough even though it's not as accurate as what I'm doing now. To get that good photo analysis picture, take the time to get the camera propped up and aligned with the blade cutting edge. I've never photographed my setup or detailed how I do it, but it's not easy and it's the hardest part of the setup. Once you've got everything ready, this is when the secondary light source comes in. I use a small LED flashlight and manually adjust the white balance of my camera so that, when I take the picture, the color looks okay. I hold up the flashlight close to the razor head at the right position and angle, with fiddling around, so that the light shines off the cutting edge in the right way for the picture to help capture the cutting edge and make more contrast with the contours of the razor. I snap the picture with my other hand.

Hopefully, my advice helps with taking photo analysis pictures and helps you NOT paint your razors, because as far as I'm concerned, taking the pictures of a painted razor would still be difficult. Are you propping up a metric scale/ruler next to the razor?
 
Thanks for another great review! Your findings mirror my personal impressions.

The Mühle R89 was my first safety razor, followed by a Fasan Bakelite Slant and a Fatip OC. Compared to these two razors, I thought it was too mild and inefficient with a small effective angle. I actually didn't use it for a long time. But after several years, more experience, improved technique and more (milder) razors to campare it to, I've found that it gives me the best overall shave. Efficient but smooth enough to go ATG on my face. And yet it sometimes gives me a few weepers on my neck. So, in the end, I think it could be just a tad less aggressive too. :)

By the way: we all know the head is made of a chrome-plated zinc alloy. However, Mühle recently changed the thread on the top cap to brass. The thread on mine was already heavily damaged and after e-mailing Mühle I got a replacement head (8 years after the initial purchase!). The top cap of this new head weighs roughly 3g more than the old one and has an engraved '4' on its underside. I don't know about the Edwin Jagger heads - if they actually share the same production line they should have brass threads as well by now.

You're welcome for the review. Thanks for your kind feedback. I'm glad that I'm not the only one who thinks that the DE89 is more aggressive than necessary. It's amazing that Mühle would replace the head after eight years! That's customer service! :thumbup1:
 
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