Dimensions of the R41 2011 Version

[salatta]

I was rummaging through my shave den to select a razor for the entire week. When I came across my R41GS along with some of the different R41 versions that I had acquired over time, I decided to assemble them together. I always had thoughts about the 2011 version, which I never had a chance to acquire. You see, back in 2011, I was in my teenage years sporting a peach fuzz mustache and side burns. Needless to say, shaving was not in my list of priorities.

My collection from left to right: Dscosmetic Z0, Aliexpress clone, R41GS, and Spitfire.

The measurements of my R41GS are as follows:
Top Cap Width: 20 mm
Baseplate Width: 25 mm

It was mentioned in B&B and various other forums that the 2011 version had a narrower top cap. Did it have the exact same baseplate?

What about the blade angle? The 3D models, Spitfire and Hurricane, slightly differed in terms of blade angle, although they weren't made by Muhle. Did the 2011 version differ from other R41 models made by Muhle due to a higher blade exposure from a narrower top cap?

 

[Iridian]

DSCosmetic also made a Z0 Prototype that had a narrower top cap (I got that one), a bit like the Spitfire, noticeably more blade was unsupported from above. It is narrower than the R41 GS or the Zamac R41 I have, but my shmaybe 2011 model I had before broke, thread and cap disconnected, so I cannot compare with a very old model anymore.

FWIW, the baseplates seem 100% identical, no noticeable differences there.

As the 2011 always pops up as the holy grail: I actually like the way the R41GS and R41 Zamac shave better than the Z0. There is zero difference unless you go steep, in which case the lack of support from above is felt unpleasantly.

 

[salatta]

DSCosmetic also made a Z0 Prototype that had a narrower top cap (I got that one), a bit like the Spitfire, noticeably more blade was unsupported from above. It is narrower than the R41 GS or the Zamac R41 I have, but my shmaybe 2011 model I had before broke, thread and cap disconnected, so I cannot compare with a very old model anymore.

FWIW, the baseplates seem 100% identical, no noticeable differences there.

As the 2011 always pops up as the holy grail: I actually like the way the R41GS and R41 Zamac shave better than the Z0. There is zero difference unless you go steep, in which case the lack of support from above is felt unpleasantly.

Does the spitfire shave just like the 2011 version? I read some reviews and many state that the Spitfire is not as smooth. That being said, a user here in B&B stated that it is possible to replicate the 2011's performance by grounding the edges of the top cap. This is something what can be done with the cheaper zamak or the dirt cheap Chinese clones. Or you can simply get the 3D ones.

I have heard of the early Z0 prototype. I think mine is v2 and I got it when it was much cheaper. Now it is almost 70 dollars. I got the Z0 head as a replacement as Muhle does not sell the R41GS's heads separately. But I agree that the R41GS shaves better than the Z0 for a steep shaver like me. Moreover, I don't think Dscometic is able to copy the R41GS in all aspects. The edges and the teeth of the R41GS are very well defined unlike the Z0.

 

[Iridian]

Does the spitfire shave just like the 2011 version? I read some reviews and many state that the Spitfire is not as smooth. That being said, a user here in B&B stated that it is possible to replicate the 2011's performance by grounding the edges of the top cap.

I don't have a Spitfire, only the mentioned Mühle in zamac and steel and the Z0.

Moreover, I don't think Dscometic is able to copy the R41GS in all aspects. The edges and the teeth of the R41GS are very well defined unlike the Z0.

This rather seems to be Mühle not bothering to round the teeth at all. It never bothers me, but you are the first to call it "well defined", I must remember that when someone complains about pointy corners or teeth!
Actually DS is closer to the Zamac version with that and it is suprising that they bothered with that, Yaqi usually doesn't round any corners for their CNCed razors.

I think you are as fine as it can get. Maybe someone can sell you a 2011 R41, or just pretend that it is one, or overcharge you, so... I would say you have enough R41 for now, it is unlikely to get any better but a high chance that you get shafted or pay for nothing.

There are shavers here who see a difference between the current R41 zamac and the R41 GS, I really didn't find it. It might be heretical for some, but I think the later R41 version shaves overall better than the earlier with the narrower cap. It trades away a lot of comfort for perhaps a tiny increase in efficiency/performance. Getting it is more like collecting a Godzilla to show people "look here, a supposed monster! I am shaving with it daily!" than for anything else.

I wish someone with a remaining R41 would show up and post a photo and talk about it. It has become like talking about Bigfoot, Nessie or encounters of the third kind by now!

 

[salatta]

This rather seems to be Mühle not bothering to round the teeth at all. It never bothers me, but you are the first to call it "well defined", I must remember that when someone complains about pointy corners or teeth!
Actually DS is closer to the Zamac version with that and it is suprising that they bothered with that, Yaqi usually doesn't round any corners for their CNCed razors.

The R41GS, especially when used with the heavy handle that it comes with, is one of the most balanced razors I have used. I never feel he heft of the heavy handle nor did I feel uncomfortable with the teeth. I cannot say the same for some of the other razors in my den. While I don't know know how the zamak performs, I credit the heavier version for adjusting my shaving technique. Its possible that those complaining have not yet adapted to using heavier safety razors or are simply going too steep with the razor.

just pretend that it is one

noted. While I don't plan on getting another R41 anytime soon, I am still curious. For a relatively new wetshaver like me, going down the rabbit hole of reading old posts on the 2011 version makes you wonder why there was such a massive buzz around it. It feels like back when it was first released, the 2011 version deserved the attention it got. But the market has churned out plenty of other great razors, some of which may rival or surpass the 2011 version in terms of aggressiveness or performance.

I have read that Muhle denies any difference(s) between the 2011 and 2013 versions. So I would to see someone post about it too as the discussions on the razor has understandably waned.

 

[uptown]

Besides the spitfire top cap replacement which is 3D printed by Shapeways another top cap was introduced at the same time called the "hurricane" which fits the 2013 R41 and changes the aggressiveness equal or exceeding the R41 2011. These top caps where development by someone using the name Aimsport. These replacements are made of plastic and not durable as they break easily if the head is tightened too much. I had the spitefire but never got the change to use it as I broke the stud (screw).

Hurricane

 

[Seer]

I have an original 2011 R41 and find it dangerously aggressive.

 

[brucered]

I have an original 2011 R41 and find it dangerously aggressive.

Worst razor I ever owned. Terrible.

I don't know if I gave it away or sold it, but it was way back in 2011 when it came out. People were selling them left, right and center, after a few uses.

It wasn't a well recieved razor on forums. People were not buying it up like hotcakes. If they had, it would still be available in the exact same form and blade gap etc. It got discontinued or changed to less aggressive and everyone wanted it again. Go figure. Happens all the time.

I never really understood it's appeal. Maybe it was because it looked awesome and unlike any other standard razor.

 

[razorfool]

DSCosmetic also made a Z0 Prototype that had a narrower top cap (I got that one), a bit like the Spitfire, noticeably more blade was unsupported from above. It is narrower than the R41 GS or the Zamac R41 I have, but my shmaybe 2011 model I had before broke, thread and cap disconnected, so I cannot compare with a very old model anymore.

FWIW, the baseplates seem 100% identical, no noticeable differences there.

As the 2011 always pops up as the holy grail: I actually like the way the R41GS and R41 Zamac shave better than the Z0. There is zero difference unless you go steep, in which case the lack of support from above is felt unpleasantly.

I think the 2011 R41 is purported to have slightly different teeth configuration. I know that when I put a 2013 cap on the 2011 baseplate I have, just to test it out, and the shave is more aggressive with that baseplate. It was a shave that was in between the two models is all I can say, and pretty good results as well.

 

[razorfool]

I have an original 2011 R41 and find it dangerously aggressive.

I agree, when I first used the 2011 I had a cut on my jawline, that wouldn't quit for about an hour. Pretty scary at the time. Blood thinners didn't help the situation. Paying more attention, and using a steeper shave angle, subsequent shaves were more drama free. Still can get a weeper or two if not careful.

 

[razorfool]

Worst razor I ever owned. Terrible.

I don't know if I gave it away or sold it, but it was way back in 2011 when it came out. People were selling them left, right and center, after a few uses.

It wasn't a well recieved razor on forums. People were not buying it up like hotcakes. If they had, it would still be available in the exact same form and blade gap etc. It got discontinued or changed to less aggressive and everyone wanted it again. Go figure. Happens all the time.

I never really understood it's appeal. Maybe it was because it looked awesome and unlike any other standard razor.

I think the appeal, at least for myself, is that that model gave a shave that was about as close to a straight razor shave result as you could get from a DE, without having the skillset to use a straight.

 

[razorfool]

I was rummaging through my shave den to select a razor for the entire week. When I came across my R41GS along with some of the different R41 versions that I had acquired over time, I decided to assemble them together. I always had thoughts about the 2011 version, which I never had a chance to acquire. You see, back in 2011, I was in my teenage years sporting a peach fuzz mustache and side burns. Needless to say, shaving was not in my list of priorities.

My collection from left to right: Dscosmetic Z0, Aliexpress clone, R41GS, and Spitfire.
View attachment 1765776

The measurements of my R41GS are as follows:
Top Cap Width: 20 mm
Baseplate Width: 25 mm

It was mentioned in B&B and various other forums that the 2011 version had a narrower top cap. Did it have the exact same baseplate?

What about the blade angle? The 3D models, Spitfire and Hurricane, slightly differed in terms of blade angle, although they weren't made by Muhle. Did the 2011 version differ from other R41 models made by Muhle due to a higher blade exposure from a narrower top cap?

My experience was more blade chatter and easier to nick oneself.

 

[razorfool]

Worst razor I ever owned. Terrible.

I don't know if I gave it away or sold it, but it was way back in 2011 when it came out. People were selling them left, right and center, after a few uses.

It wasn't a well recieved razor on forums. People were not buying it up like hotcakes. If they had, it would still be available in the exact same form and blade gap etc. It got discontinued or changed to less aggressive and everyone wanted it again. Go figure. Happens all the time.

I never really understood it's appeal. Maybe it was because it looked awesome and unlike any other standard razor.

I agree with your assessments about this razor. I used it this morning, great prep, no pressure at all, no multiple passes, fresh blade, steep angle and still, multiple weepers especially along the jaw line. Still, it is a fun razor to use, does give a very good shave, great for shave training purposes. Lots of alum block singing, especially on the neck area! Used a Perma-Sharp stainless blade, may try a Derby next time, just for grins. I wished they still made this razor in a way, so more folks could have the experience. I use the Faux Tortoise handle from Muhle, no heavy handles for me, especially with this razor.

 

[ivan_101]

I was rummaging through my shave den to select a razor for the entire week. When I came across my R41GS along with some of the different R41 versions that I had acquired over time, I decided to assemble them together. I always had thoughts about the 2011 version, which I never had a chance to acquire. You see, back in 2011, I was in my teenage years sporting a peach fuzz mustache and side burns. Needless to say, shaving was not in my list of priorities.

My collection from left to right: Dscosmetic Z0, Aliexpress clone, R41GS, and Spitfire.
View attachment 1765776

The measurements of my R41GS are as follows:
Top Cap Width: 20 mm
Baseplate Width: 25 mm

It was mentioned in B&B and various other forums that the 2011 version had a narrower top cap. Did it have the exact same baseplate?

What about the blade angle? The 3D models, Spitfire and Hurricane, slightly differed in terms of blade angle, although they weren't made by Muhle. Did the 2011 version differ from other R41 models made by Muhle due to a higher blade exposure from a narrower top cap?

With the ZAMAK heads it does matter where you took the measurement. The caps have different width throughout the length. Same applies to the baseplates, but not to the same extent. Usually a tad less width at the middle compared to the ends. That is why when I measured the caps of the 2013 and the latest ZAMAK R41 (Should we call it R41 2019?) I measured at the middle. Muhle R41 (ZAMAK head) changed - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/muhle-r41-zamak-head-changed.627847/

This is typical for ZAMAK. You cannot have very precise parts. With the R41GS this is not a problem as it is stainless steel.

Regarding the R41GS and the current R41, as I said, I will post a thread about them and the 2013. The GS shaves more like a 2013, but I had a few more shaves and it is not 100% identical to 2013.

 

[ivan_101]

The measurements of my R41GS are as follows:
Top Cap Width: 20 mm
Baseplate Width: 25 mm

Just checked my notes. My R41GS is:

Cap: 20.6mm
Plate: 25.0mm

Was bought 30-40 days ago.