Yes they are great stones! I have a "homemade" stone that gives even a bit better shave than these but it sure as heck doesn't cut as fast.
Bavarian-Frankonian Hones
- Thread starter hatzicho
- Start date
Another vintage? I have never even seen or heard of a vintage one.Got another Vintage Frankonian today!
Very dished but superb quality, and nice fossil inclusions.
Greets Sebastian.
Where/how/when did you get this?
I would kill for a square one. Especially if 5"+ x 2.5"+
If is too much work to lap I would take it off your hands.
Last edited:
Sebastian's basement is full of special stones, large boulders of les latneuses, arm sized slabs of cloudy Thuringians and a box of NOS Marukas
These Frankonians look like interesting stones - too bad there's no readily available supply.
LOL!
@Keith: I know, I am craving a square stone with at least the above dimensions(I would settle for 2" wide). Peter said he is going to try and get some larger material but both quarries are filled with waste and water apparently.
The first stone below is lapped flat, the second isn't. I will post my other 3 grey ones when they're ready.
These grey ones are more fine than the light colored and still extremely fast.
These grey ones are more fine than the light colored and still extremely fast.
Yeah mine is a grey one. Very fast.
My pictures are huge, sorry guys. Still figuring out the new camera on my phone.
The first stone below is lapped flat, the second isn't. I will post my other 3 grey ones when they're ready.
These grey ones are more fine than the light colored and still extremely fast.
Nice one !!! Its great that Sebastian found another vintage one.....
On page one in this thread, i have shown one (on the top).
The first one i got from a good friend in saxonia, and it belonged to his grandfather, and was mainly used for sharpening scythes i think. Second found one was the first whetstone i have ever used!!!! (in the age of about 16 me and one of my schoolmates tryed too sharpen our poketknives with the stone of his grandpa). The last time i visited him i looked at that one and finally figuered out it is a frankonian. In much better condition, his grandpa was a carpenter.
The last one shown, was a ebay snatch, from germany too. (Hamburg) From an old carpenter.
A funny thing is all thought this is an belgian hone (coticule). So maybe there where sold as fake coticules in the old days.
And sorry, i lapped it yesterday, pics will come soon.
Btw.: it is 14*6cm (5.51*2.36 inches).
In the old days they where for shure not intendet too be razor hones, and i know there are finer one`s around, but for me it is the perfect shaving edge. For carpenters and scythe users this was the as fast and fine as it can get stone i think.
The ID of this stones is nearly impossible in uncleaned condition, the quarrys where tiny compared to coticule mines. And till we (or mainly Peter and Sebastian) found an old catalog advertising this kind of stone, or at least a labeled one, we have to suppose that there just sold by travelling whetstone dealers, in germany.
3 vintage examples from different origin, all around germany. Hamburg, Saxonia, Bavaria.
Greets Sebastian.
Last edited:
Very interesting! I am really surprised they were not more widespread. It is pretty rare to have something cut steel so crazy fast but still fine enough to shave. I would honestly buy another 8 of them, they're great. I am curious how different samples can be from the same quarry. Mine seem pretty consistent.
I hope you find many more in the wilds. I'm sure I won't come across one here in the states.
I hope you find many more in the wilds. I'm sure I won't come across one here in the states.
I got the second stone above flat finally (was awfully humped). Along with the first stone below. Still 2 more to lap probably tomorrow.
.
.
.
I got this ancient big hone from Germany. Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as i'm concerned this is a yellowish-grey Frankonian .
It is very hard, witth a coarse DMT (D3C) it has the same slurry release like my Dan´s Hard Arkansas but it is softer than my ultrahard SB Ark. Fortunately, the stone was almost perfectly flat and oilfree, just dirty.
It is fast with the D3C slurry, faster than my Hard Ark. It is a fact that this stone needs a special surface treatment to achieve good results with razors. I have tried 1200 w/d, a noname 400 diamond plate
(which is much coarser than an original coarse DMT) and an original fine and extra fine DMT. With all these methods sharp razors are blunted. But it works fantastic when the stone is lapped with a coarse DMT (325 mesh).
I have honed only one razor so far and so I can not tell much but the first impression is more than good. The stone is easy to read and gives a very good feedback. The lines and spots have no influence.
I did a shave test with a "SIGI" from Wilhelm Boos Jr, in my opinion an awesome razor, and the stone has now a place among my best finishers. The shave was smooth but not yet buttery smooth, but for the first attempt very good, i wouldn´t say crisp, it was pleasant. There were no skin irritations or burns with aftershave, a really good stone in my opinion.
Thank you for posting your experience in this threat, it helped my a lot.
Sure looks like one. Mine works really well with slurry from Atoma 1200. I find the edge OK for shaving but prefer to use the stone for mid range work.
I can confirm that the stone works very well with 1200 diamond slurry. I will test if it is possible to finish a razor on this slurry. Unfortunately, the 325 slurry is a bit too aggressive for my taste. However, the slurry breaks down after many labs and so you can use the stone from bevel set to finish. But with the 1200 mesh surface and water only, i can not achieve a good shaving edge. My stone needs a 325-400 mesh roughness to be an excellent finisher. Also a 600 mesh surface was not satisfactorily.
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #76
Hi Sebastian,
what you have got there is not a Frankonian hone. But even better - it is a so-called saxoinian oilstone. Saxonian Oilstones have been mined only in one quarry in the thuringian area. The J.G. Escher company rented the quarry from 1804 on and it was rented before from other members of the Escher family from around 1764 or even earlier.
The stones are very hard as you described and have been very sought after in the 18th and 19 th century. Escher sold them around the world.
Contrary to these stones frankonian hones are relatively soft, not much harder than the well known thuringian waterhones.
what you have got there is not a Frankonian hone. But even better - it is a so-called saxoinian oilstone. Saxonian Oilstones have been mined only in one quarry in the thuringian area. The J.G. Escher company rented the quarry from 1804 on and it was rented before from other members of the Escher family from around 1764 or even earlier.
The stones are very hard as you described and have been very sought after in the 18th and 19 th century. Escher sold them around the world.
Contrary to these stones frankonian hones are relatively soft, not much harder than the well known thuringian waterhones.
Last edited by a moderator:
Thank you very much Peter, your knowledge about stones is unrivalled.
Very interesting that an Arkansas-like stone was mined in my native region.
I really like this stone, definitely a no.1 keeper.
Very interesting that an Arkansas-like stone was mined in my native region.
I really like this stone, definitely a no.1 keeper.
Although the stone is not a Frankonian, one quick update: The Saxonian Oilstone is a superb stone when used with 1.2k DMT slurry. It has a speed like a moderate Coti and produces nice sharp edges when the slurry is diluted slowly.
With water only and with the 1.2k lapped surface, it is very slow, typical for a novaculite. I think my failed test yesterday with a 0.6k or 1.2k rough surface was due to the condition of the razor. It has already to be very sharp when using the stone this way to get better results. The edge looks a bit better under the scope when the stone is lapped with the xfine DMT, but even with the 325 grit rough surface, a HHT5 and a comfortable shave is possible.
The stone is very glassy when lapped with a 1.2k DMT, it feels much finer than my Hard Arkansas and when lapped with a 325 DMT the sharpening is very different, a fine sensation of abrasion, not the typical glassy hard feeling of an Arkansas. A very interesting stone for sure.
With water only and with the 1.2k lapped surface, it is very slow, typical for a novaculite. I think my failed test yesterday with a 0.6k or 1.2k rough surface was due to the condition of the razor. It has already to be very sharp when using the stone this way to get better results. The edge looks a bit better under the scope when the stone is lapped with the xfine DMT, but even with the 325 grit rough surface, a HHT5 and a comfortable shave is possible.
The stone is very glassy when lapped with a 1.2k DMT, it feels much finer than my Hard Arkansas and when lapped with a 325 DMT the sharpening is very different, a fine sensation of abrasion, not the typical glassy hard feeling of an Arkansas. A very interesting stone for sure.
- Thread starter
- #79
Finishing with oil at last stage will further refine your edge! Since the stone is very hard and dense the oil will not pentrate in the stone during finishing. No problem to clean it with dish liquid after using and hone with water again next time.
... next to a lovely Thuringian Troutstone bout... And the second one shows all (expect 2 i guess ? ) Frankonian hones, nearly all vintage.....
Similar threads
- Locked
- Article
