Old Rock Coticule vs La Veinette

[JPO]

Is the newly mined La Veinette stones as good, and do they share some of the same properties as these highly regarded Old Rock coticules, as Mr Burton have implied. It would be nice to own one. However, i am not a collector. I use the stones, and don't care much about the box it came in, or where it came from.
All i know is that the two newly mined La Veinette stones are good for razor honing.


ref. https://biblio.naturalsciences.be/r...l-survey-of-belgium/pdfs/pp_1984_2_206-kl.pdf
(page 45)
This vein could correspond to the famous Old Rock vein exploited at Fosse Roulette between Vielsalm and Salmchateau (according to Mr. Burton).

 

[Empire straights]

I have a vintage lv(never got a labeled old rock) and a new one and the only difference I notice Berwyn the 2 is hardness. My newer lv is softer, but doesn't autoslurry. Aside from that they are almost identical in use and finish.

 

[Christian1212]

I would worry more about a particular stone vs if it was new or vintage if only worried about performance. I would say there are new vienette stones better than some old rock stones and vise versa.

If you are buying vintage for performance, and you don't want to pay extra for a label, then it is sort of guess work. Sometimes you get finishers and sometimes you don't. When labels aren't increasing the price of a coticule, the signs that they can be a good finisher will (very debatable topic - main thing though is magnese lines = better chance).

I personally really hate when people sell un labeled coticules as a certain brand just because of the size/look. If the label/box is not there then there is no way you can say it is X brand. If wanting an old stone that performs you need to get lucky on the bay, pay a bigger price, or find a nice member.

 

[Eshebert]

I have a hand full of Coticules, and always looking for more. I think the answer to figuring out Coticules is having a bunch of them. Hone on them and weed out the ones that don't suit you. They are not as pricey as Jnats, buy as many as you can afford, buy a few more even if you cant. I have so much fun honing on them. Just don't over pay on that auction site or on here.

I personally have had good luck with smaller stones which keeps prices manageable. I also found if you email AC or go to this one Esty store (you will figure it out). You will find what you want considerably cheaper than overpaying for a stone here that a member has too much invested (emotionally and financially). If the stone was any good, they would not be selling it. I have had a few misses with new coticules. What I notices is the following. If the stone is milky cream colored with no ripples or orange peal, I have not had luck with it. The exception to that rule being the Coti side of my hybrid Les Lats, mine or some cutting son of a guns. I have one new 6" x 1.5" and one really old combo that is 4"x2" that look like twins, both with that grainy orange peal look with a tint of rose. I can set a bevel to finish on both, fun and versatile little stones. I have no idea the vein of any Coticule I own other than the obvious with the LL. To be honest, I don't really care. I know what my stones can do, and if they work for me, they are not leaving my possession.

 

[SliceOfLife]

The "Italian Old Rock" on Torrey Paddle hones, and at least one standard (boxed 4x2) Old Rock I've seen were from one yellow layer within the "brown Les Lat" vein. I've also seen plenty of Old Rocks and more commonly Salm stones that visually matched La Veinette. So My suspicion is that they actually put a few different "veins" under the Old Rock label... just restricted to what were considered the "primo" veins... the way we think of Les lat hybrid and La Veinette today.

 

[bmiller3230]

I mean, they were all in the ground for millions of years. When they were mined is just a blip in terms of geological time. They are composed of inert minerals, so, not not sure vintage factors into it.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I mean, they were all in the ground for millions of years. When they were mined is just a blip in terms of geological time. They are composed of inert minerals, so, not not sure vintage factors into it.

To the extent that there are diverse veins that are no longer being exploited, it does.

 

[Empire straights]

I mean, they were all in the ground for millions of years. When they were mined is just a blip in terms of geological time. They are composed of inert minerals, so, not not sure vintage factors into it.

I think the location they were mined and quality control are factors in the differences.

 

[bmiller3230]

So, all

To the extent that there are diverse veins that are no longer being exploited, it does.

Granted as far as veins that aren't being mined now. But is a La Veinette from 1903 really better than a La Veinette mined last week?

 

[Darth Scandalous]

So, all

Granted as far as veins that aren't being mined now. But is a La Veinette from 1903 really better than a La Veinette mined last week?

I think that is what the OP was asking.

 

[Legion]

So, all

Granted as far as veins that aren't being mined now. But is a La Veinette from 1903 really better than a La Veinette mined last week?

Maybe yes, maybe no. You have to remember, some of these veins run for miles, and zigzag back and forth, so the location of where it was pulled from the ground could change the character of the stone.

And also, back in the day, there were more mines and the stone was more abundant, so I think they tended to be more picky with the stone they used and sold.

 

[David]

So, all

Granted as far as veins that aren't being mined now. But is a La Veinette from 1903 really better than a La Veinette mined last week?

Possibly, yes. La veinette from the ol preu mine around 2009-2012 was consistently some of the best coticule I’ve ever used. They shut that mine down and for a year or two all we could get was La grise. When they finally got in to Veinette from the new mine the first piece I bought was a huge disappointment. Nothing like the ones they previously sold. Ever have a double sided Jnat where one side is noticeable better than the other? That’s just in an inch or so. Imagine the difference going 50 feet deeper could have.

 

[Wid]

Stone to stone no matter of the vein or brand will vary. I’ve had a few labeled Old Rocks and some I thought might be. Not a heck of a lot of difference imo.

The new stones can be just as good. The new Veinette has a lot of similarities to the old one I got from TSS years ago and to the Old Rock stones.

 

[bmiller3230]

Possibly, yes. La veinette from the ol preu mine around 2009-2012 was consistently some of the best coticule I’ve ever used. They shut that mine down and for a year or two all we could get was La grise. When they finally got in to Veinette from the new mine the first piece I bought was a huge disappointment. Nothing like the ones they previously sold. Ever have a double sided Jnat where one side is noticeable better than the other? That’s just in an inch or so. Imagine the difference going 50 feet deeper could have.

I do feel your La Grise pain. Got way too much of that. I'm still down the coticule rabbit hole. Haven't been down the jnat rabbit hole yet, but it's likely in my future

 

[bmiller3230]

Possibly, yes. La veinette from the ol preu mine around 2009-2012 was consistently some of the best coticule I’ve ever used. They shut that mine down and for a year or two all we could get was La grise. When they finally got in to Veinette from the new mine the first piece I bought was a huge disappointment. Nothing like the ones they previously sold. Ever have a double sided Jnat where one side is noticeable better than the other? That’s just in an inch or so. Imagine the difference going 50 feet deeper could have.

But don't they vary from stone to stone, even from the same layer? Even the same block?

 

[bmiller3230]

I think that is what the OP was asking.

I know. I wasn't replying to the OP. I was replying to your post

 

[bmiller3230]

Maybe yes, maybe no. You have to remember, some of these veins run for miles, and zigzag back and forth, so the location of where it was pulled from the ground could change the character of the stone.

And also, back in the day, there were more mines and the stone was more abundant, so I think they tended to be more picky with the stone they used and sold.

Do you think buying Select or Select plus from Ardennes will get you inferior quality to what they sold in the past?

 

[Legion]

Do you think buying Select or Select plus from Ardennes will get you inferior quality to what they sold in the past?

Don't know. What makes a stone select or select plus? Visual appearance and a lack of flaws, or honing ability? I've had modern stones with manganese lines, etc that would never be labeled that way, but that I've preferred in use to select plus stones I've tried. I've had vintage stones that are great, and some that are meh.

A lot of people place too much emphasis on stamps and labels, IMO.

 

[bmiller3230]

Fair point

 

[Eshebert]

My old 4x2 combo, it’s my favorite. I wish it was 2 inches longer and I would never look at another. It came from an estate sale.