About Brush Cleaning and it's downfalls...

[Rudy Vey]

There was a thread started in the brush forum, and I made a post there.
I think it is a good idea to read what I wrote, I post here what my post was about.
I think it is important to read, and since I use a lot of wood in my brushes, this should be an educational piece for owner of my wooden, especially Bog Oak brushes.

You also can do major damage to a brush!!
Here is was just happened to one of mine. I made a customer a brush from Bog Oak, resin stabilized by a professional company. Wood was too precious for me to do it myself, which I normally do.
Customer has a certain procedure he uses for all his new brushes. I list here what he told me:

"1) I soaked it for about 5 minutes in mildly warm water approximately halfway up the bristles.
2) I rinsed the bristles under mildly warm water for about 30 seconds to wash off any dust or residue.
3) I lathered the brush and then stood the brush upright with the lather on the bristles. I left the brush alone for a couple of hours with the lather on the bristles.
4) I thoroughly rinsed the soap out of the brush by holding the brush under mildly warm running water & ran my fingers through the bristles numerous times for a few minutes."

I would never recommend this procedure, it might be fine for a resin handled brush, but it is very bad for a wooden brush handle, even resin stabilized wood.
The soap/water mix. i.e. the lather, will wick into the knot, especially if the brush stands upright. The knot will swell a bit, and in this case the knot was a D01 three band knot, an extremely densely stuffed knot of very thin three band hair, which will swell quite a bit. So, the swell, only if a little, will crack the wooden handle!! This was a Keyhole style, where the top is pretty thin.
Also, do not forget, even while the wood is resin stabilized, it still has its grain directions, and these wooden brushes, unless they are made from burl wood, have the long grain facing up/down. So, the logically cracking appears along the grain.....

In all the years I have used wood, stabilized or not, this has never happened to me before. I have made a lot of Bog Oak brushes, but never had a customer reporting a similar issue.
The other fact is that with this procedure, you will introduce soap very deep into the knot itself. Soap does damage to hairs, especially the very thin three band hairs of a D01 knot. I also like to mention that the same customer had two prior knot failure, shedding, with also D01 three band knots. Whenever I cut these off, I saw the abundance of soap residues inside these knots.

To sum this up, I know now why the two earlier knots started to shed pretty fast after receipt, and I also know now why the wood cracked so fast, brush was not even used once for shaving.

So, please do not any of these obscure "cleaning" procedures for any shaving brush, it is not needed!!! The hair in the badgers I use is cleaned, and sterilized before it is made into a knot. So, do what I do with any new brush I get: wet it, lather up with some cream in your hand, rinse out very well with warm water and the brush is ready for use.
I also do not see the need to regularly clean a brush: you clean it every time you use it with soap, i.e. making lather, and after use you rinse all the lather (soap, cream) out!! Let run the water into the knot from the top and "milk" the knot, meaning squeezing frequently, like one would milk a cow.

 

[gpjoe]

So, to be clear: it was caused by the soap sitting in the brush, and would not have happened with just water?

In other words: it's OK to stand a damp brush on it's (wooden) handle to dry after a thorough rinse and squeeze?

 

[Rudy Vey]

So, to be clear: it was caused by the soap sitting in the brush, and would not have happened with just water?

In other words: it's OK to stand a damp brush on it's (wooden) handle to dry after a thorough rinse and squeeze?

Surely can you use a wooden brush, I just advise not to let it sit for hours with wet lather on/in it.
Soap in the brush knot will eventually breakdown the hairs, and the brush will shed. This is pretty well known nowadays.
The other problem in this case was that moisture wicked into the knot and caused a swelling of the knot, thus cracking the wood along its grain. As I said, I have never seen this before, and have made many PJ styled brushes, which have about the same top configuration.

 

[abies]

This is very useful information. I have two questions:

1. Would this be any different with a synthetic knot?
2. Couldn't soap scum potentially build up on the bristles?

Just genuinely wondering.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

Bog oak is pretty easy to crack too, so I would be extra careful with it.

 

[gpjoe]

Surely can you use a wooden brush, I just advise to let it sit for hours with wet lather on/in it.
Soap in the brush knot will eventually breakdown the hairs, and the brush will shed. This is pretty well known nowadays.
The other problem in this case was that moisture wicked into the knot and caused a swelling of the knot, thus cracking the wood along its grain. As I said, I have never seen this before, and have made many PJ styled brushes, which have about the same top configuration.

Just to be clear, and I'm asking you because you have probably forgotten more about shaving brushes than I will ever know if I live another 100 years.

Many guy here will not dry their brushes tips up (resting on the handle, as I dry mine) thinking that is harmful to the brush.

Having said that, do you believe that absent the lather in this case, standing this wet brush on its handlewould not have caused the crack?

Again, asking you as our resident authority on fine brushes.

 

[silverlifter]

I also do not see the need to regularly clean a brush: you clean it every time you use it with soap, i.e. making lather, and after use you rinse all the lather (soap, cream) out!!

This is the money quote. Too often, we look for ways to make the hobby more complicated/complex/interesting than it needs to, or should, be.

 

[Georgi]

Sorry
- After every shave, I wash the brush with shampoo with “medium” warm water.
- Gently dry it on a clean towel and hang it with the knot down.
I know I'll have to buy a new one sometime.

 

[Rudy Vey]

Just to be clear, and I'm asking you because you have probably forgotten more about shaving brushes than I will ever know if I live another 100 years.

Many guy here will not dry their brushes tips up (resting on the handle, as I dry mine) thinking that is harmful to the brush.

Having said that, do you believe that absent the lather in this case, standing this wet brush on its handlewould not have caused the crack?

Again, asking you as our resident authority on fine brushes.

I also have many standing up. Here is what I do after use: rinse well with warm water, shake them out rigorously, brush over towel, and set on the counter. They are totally dry within 12-24 hours, then they go back into the cabinet.
Its not that every brush will crack when too much moisture stays inside the knot, its just some are wooden ones are more prone to it. As I said, I have made many bog oak brushes, but never had one crack like this.

For years I have mulled why Semogue uses these metal cups/sleeves to put their knots in, it might be the exact reason to avoid slight expansion of the knot and cracking the handles, they used to make only wooden handles.

 

[Bsamps]

Hang it upside down. Makes no sense doing otherwise.

 

[brucered]

Hang it upside down. Makes no sense doing otherwise.

To me it makes sense to just put it base down, bristles up, the way the brush is made.

If they weren't meant to be positioned your way, they would not have flat bottoms and would all include a stand.

In all my years of using them this way, I've never had an issue.

 

[Bsamps]

Different strokes for different folks, I suppose.

 

[dmshaver]

Thank you, Rudy, for sharing this with us. I was heartsick when I found my brush had cracked. It seems I should have asked you years ago how to break in & care for my brushes. I had read years ago from several sources (no brush makers or artisans, just individuals who seemed to know what they were talking about) that the way to break a brush in was to soak it, lather it & let it stand overnight with the lather in the bristles. I modified that to just letting the lather stay in the bristles for a couple of hours. But I now know that is still a couple of hours too long! I have learned my lesson, but unfortunately at the expense of a beautiful Bog Oak Keyhole handle. I hope others have learned from my mistake.

 

[gpjoe]

I also have many standing up. Here is what I do after use: rinse well with warm water, shake them out rigorously, brush over towel, and set on the counter. They are totally dry within 12-24 hours, then they go back into the cabinet.

This is precisely my routine.

Its not that every brush will crack when too much moisture stays inside the knot, its just some are wooden ones are more prone to it. As I said, I have made many bog oak brushes, but never had one crack like this.

For years I have mulled why Semogue uses these metal cups/sleeves to put their knots in, it might be the exact reason to avoid slight expansion of the knot and cracking the handles, they used to make only wooden handles.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Mr. Shavington]

Hang it upside down. Makes no sense doing otherwise.

If you want the water to run out of the knot then hanging it upside down would not work very well. Ideally you should use a stand that holds the brush at an angle - about 25 degrees from horizontal is optimal, if I recall correctly. It’s like if you want to empty a glass of water, it will drain fastest if you tip it at an angle so the air can fill the glass efficiently and enable the water to escape. If you hold the glass perfectly vertically it creates a vacuum and holds the water in. I can’t recall exactly but somebody posted the maths one time and gave the precise angle.

I have no idea if an upside down brush dries quicker or slower than a right-side-up brush.

 

[flask28]

If you want the water to run out of the knot then hanging it upside down would not work very well. Ideally you should use a stand that holds the brush at an angle - about 25 degrees from horizontal is optimal, if I recall correctly. It’s like if you want to empty a glass of water, it will drain fastest if you tip it at an angle so the air can fill the glass efficiently and enable the water to escape. If you hold the glass perfectly vertically it creates a vacuum and holds the water in. I can’t recall exactly but somebody posted the maths one time and gave the precise angle.

Ahhh - I always wondered why the SV brush stand was the way it was. You just explained it - thank you!

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I have no idea if an upside down brush dries quicker or slower than a right-side-up brush.

I could swear there was a thread a while back where a fellow tested that, but I don't recall the results.

I don't think it matters much if a brush has been properly wrung and shaken, though....far less water will be present than a in a brush full of lather.

 

[Dtownvino]

Hang it upside down. Makes no sense doing otherwise.

Exactly when I’m home. When I’m on the road, I can’t do it so I rinse it out, milk it, shake it and towel dry it. Also only take small resin brushes with me - that use a Shavemac 2 band from Rudy. Wood stays at home and if dried with the knot hanging upside down.

 

[Chaucer]

How about, once or twice a year, a bath for a few minutes in vinegar solution (1:3) and/or diluted borax, then gentle comb or brush at the base? The idea is to wash away soap residue. Is this a good or a bad idea generally? How about with a wood handle?

 

[Sherlock40]

What I do after every shave is this: rinse out thoroughly with warm water so there is no longer soap visible coming from the brush; then as I am cleaning the razor, I soak the bristles in clean warm water with a splash of distilled white vinegar (ratio of water to vinegar is probably 10:1 or higher); every now and then I give it gentle agitation; then when I have finished cleaning the razor, I wash the brush again with warm running water to remove any vinegar, towel dry it and hang upside down. I have had no issues with this method at all and never have any soap residue buildup. I do this because I previously would rinse a brush to remove all the soap, only to find out that there would be a gradual buildup of soap residue on the brush. Perhaps it has something to do with me living in an area with very hard water. All I know is that since I have been doing this for years now, there never is an issue with soap buildup anymore. And the vinegar solution is so dilute that I don’t see what harm it could cause.