I need a bit help with my Naniwas. I am not too sure what I am looking for to know when I am done with one stone and to move on to the next. I have the 1,3,8,12k stones. I know most of the work is done at the 1 k level and I think I got it down with the nail and thumb test. I do both. But after that how do I know when I am done with the 3,8 K? Are you suppose to see the scratch line at th 12 K level. they say mirror finish but do you still see any scratch lines?
a good progression method with Naniwas
- Thread starter bad-bryce
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Buy a $6 loupe from amazon, set the bevel and take a look at the scratches, move on the the next stone and stay on it until the scratches from the previous stones work are gone, repeat until you reach your finisher.
I don't count strokes as some razors require more or less. I also never back down in grit and go back up-the so called pyramid honing.
I don't count strokes as some razors require more or less. I also never back down in grit and go back up-the so called pyramid honing.
- Thread starter
- #3
what strength of loupe would be adequate? 10x, 20x or 30x
10X loupe seems to work best, stonger power difficult to see much and keep in focus when hand holding
I have a 40x I got from ebay for about $3-4 if I recall correctly, it does the job well. Its really a nice tool to have, it also allows you too make sure the bevel is well set and that you haven't got any small chips which are not always visible to the eye.
I also use a Naniwa 3/8k in my progression, when I get off the 3k, I can easily cut armhair passing the blade close to my arm.
I also use a Naniwa 3/8k in my progression, when I get off the 3k, I can easily cut armhair passing the blade close to my arm.
This is the one I have and it works well.
http://www.amazon.com/30X-AND-60X-L...UTF8&qid=1371257998&sr=8-2&keywords=60x+loupe
I would highly recommend one with light on it, I have a B&L that is great but does not have light and it is a PITA to use.
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- #7
Thanks for the help. When you say it should cut arm hair is that with the grain or against? Like at 1k and 3 k.
It should cut arm hair. Don't know about grain. That does matter really. It should cut effortlessly with no pulling at 1k. At 3k it should swipe the hair away like a squeegee does water off glass.
Make certain you lap them. The 3 and 8 get dirty fast.
Play with them. Test shave the razor. Alter your progression based on it. There are no magic numbers of laps and stroke patterns! EVERY razor is different and every face likes a different edge.
If your 1K is your bevel setter, stay on it until it convincingly passes the TNT. If you aren't absolutely certain that it passed, then it didn't.
Then proceed as Alfredo recommends. When the loupe tells you it is time to move to the next hone, assess the edge with the TPT. You want to be able to judge an edge by touch alone.
Also, I like a light slurry on Naniwas. With it, you can see how the edge interacts with the slurry when you start on a hone and when the hone has taken the edge as far as it can.
Then proceed as Alfredo recommends. When the loupe tells you it is time to move to the next hone, assess the edge with the TPT. You want to be able to judge an edge by touch alone.
Also, I like a light slurry on Naniwas. With it, you can see how the edge interacts with the slurry when you start on a hone and when the hone has taken the edge as far as it can.
Ugh, I hate the bevel tests that involve TOUCHING the cutting edge. There are quite a few visual ques but touching the blade with your nail and thumb pad??? It seems so counter productive. Think of how we dull a razor? We run the edge on a glass. I'm not saying a finger nail is going to do that to it but still.. The only test that's required is that it cuts arm hair easily from heel to toe (the entire length of the blade). Once it does that you can move past the bevel setting stage.
+1 for the 60x loupe. The loupe that Doc suggests has both 30x & 60x, it's inexpensive and does a great job.
IMHO, anything under 60x is not strong enough to properly assess your edge.
When you get your loupe, the photos in this thread will let you know what you are looking at: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...sion?highlight=seraphim's+lapping+progression
Once you get good at assessing the edge (with a loupe), you will know when it's time to stop and move on to the next grit level.
Stopping, when you max out the edge on each grit level, is an art unto itself but, the loupe will show you the way!
Since I no longer produce enough test material for the HHT, I use the loupe and the Thumb Pad Test to set the bevel.
After the bevel is set, you can use the loupe to guide you until you're ready to strop and shave.
IMHO, anything under 60x is not strong enough to properly assess your edge.
When you get your loupe, the photos in this thread will let you know what you are looking at: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...sion?highlight=seraphim's+lapping+progression
Once you get good at assessing the edge (with a loupe), you will know when it's time to stop and move on to the next grit level.
Stopping, when you max out the edge on each grit level, is an art unto itself but, the loupe will show you the way!
Since I no longer produce enough test material for the HHT, I use the loupe and the Thumb Pad Test to set the bevel.
After the bevel is set, you can use the loupe to guide you until you're ready to strop and shave.
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I've honed many, many razors using those tests, completely without issue. The TNT, in particular, works because unlike glass, the edge actually cuts into your fingernail.
I find the TNT to be utterly reliable and, perhaps more importantly, it gives you clear feedback about the entire edge. Since you use it only when setting the bevel, that information is invaluable.
The TPT, while more difficult to learn, can tell you much about the edge without having to resort to parlor tricks.
Oh, and I dull my razors by shaving with them.
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I get the shot about how you dull your razors, I just think that those tests are as 'parlor tricky' as using a razor to.... cut hair?
What he said
Just gives new guys more ways to mess up an edge or hurt themselves. Cutting hair is all that matters.
I don't know If its wise to alter your progression based on what a razor does. I mean how do you know what to do? You lost me on that one Brooke. Once the bevel is set I stay pretty close to the same thing. Sure some razors may need more on the 3/4 k. But after that I'm almost always the same. If the shave test isn't up to par I go back again.
You are reading into things too much. This game we play is all about trial and error, thats all im really saying. Take that for what you will.
Did you mess up your edge or cut yourself a lot?
I don't know anyone that's done this. Maybe. But a fingernail is hard to go thru. You have to really slice and add pressure.
Mess up the edge? How? I think you must think the TNT is something it is not. I had forgotten about it. I will start to incorporate it. I Agree we are honing to cut hair. However body hair is much different than facial. And, if you hone a lot you run out of hair.
I mean, if the guys been doing it this way for many years with good results and has also helped many people learn to hone effectively by using those methods, why question it?
I don't know anyone that's done this. Maybe. But a fingernail is hard to go thru. You have to really slice and add pressure.
Mess up the edge? How? I think you must think the TNT is something it is not. I had forgotten about it. I will start to incorporate it. I Agree we are honing to cut hair. However body hair is much different than facial. And, if you hone a lot you run out of hair.
I mean, if the guys been doing it this way for many years with good results and has also helped many people learn to hone effectively by using those methods, why question it?
