.357 Ammo

[Tim_McD]

Buffalo bore outdoorsman rocks in 357

I have shot the +P+ 38 spl hardcast in my Ruger LCR....like catching fastballs barehanded

In the Redhawk it is stout

 

[simon1]

Buffalo bore outdoorsman rocks in 357

I have shot the +P+ 38 spl hardcast in my Ruger LCR....like catching fastballs barehanded

In the Redhawk it is stout

The Buffalo Bore stuff is like hot rod reloads but is still in SAAMI pressure limits. It's good stuff for factory hot ammo. I use their .38 regular stuff instead of their +P in my lightweight Colt Cobra as I don't want to possibly stretch the frame. The .38 +P is in the Smith .357. I'd use the Buffalo Bore hot .41 mag in my Ruger Blackhawk any time, but I've put a bunch of hot handloads through that one before so I know how it acts and accepts hot loads. And the grip shape of a single action revolver helps to mitigate recoil...not to mention the hand filling Herrett's Shooting Star grips I have on the Ruger.

I'd hate to shoot +P+ in the little Cobra...the regular BB .38s are a handfull as it is.

 

[edteach]

I have a 19 made in 1973, 686 made in 87 King Cobra 4 inch ss and a Ruger Security six made in 76 4 inch SS. IMO although 357 has one of the best one shot stopping records you are limited to 6 rounds [I know of the 7 and 8 round revolvers] they are more bulky and slower to load. With a very concealable 9mm you have 10 to 12 rounds and fast mag swapout.

 

[Acmemfg]

Of course there is the philosophy that one (perhaps two) properly placed shot(s) especially a highly effective round like a .357, negates the need for too many other additional shots. In such cases, 5 or 6 rounds would be adequate.

 

[simon1]

I have a 19 made in 1973, 686 made in 87 King Cobra 4 inch ss and a Ruger Security six made in 76 4 inch SS. IMO although 357 has one of the best one shot stopping records you are limited to 6 rounds [I know of the 7 and 8 round revolvers] they are more bulky and slower to load. With a very concealable 9mm you have 10 to 12 rounds and fast mag swapout.

There are also people that don't have much hand strength and have a hard time racking a slide. I have a pretty hefty recoil spring in my 1911 so that it functions properly with the hot defensive rounds, and sometimes I have a little trouble now racking the slide back and locking it. Wheelguns I can still operate just fine.

AR had a good article on wheelguns a few years ago, and didn't even mention people with less than optimum hand strength. S&W just came out the the Shield EZ that supposedly has an easier to rack slide.

Why Choose a Wheelgun?

 

[Ad Astra]

On a closely related note, I'm looking for some extreme .38 Special, as in +P+ and beyond. It's for the Ruger SP101 snubbie, which can take it. Actually they are frequently bored out to take 110 grain/short .357 loads. Anyways. I don't see this conversion as necessary, as there are solid copper projos, Barnes, Buffalo Bore etc. that can really maximize .38 +P. But which?

Anyone vouch for a best +P?

I have Rem. Golden Sabre 125s, which have a good rep.


AA

 

[simon1]

This is what I found when I was looking at the Buffalo Bore 158 gr. .38 +P.

First one out of a snubbie, second vid. out of a 4" Smith. But you have a soft lead bullet. That type of load has been around for a long time, and it ain't too shabby. And they have a gas check on them.

 

[OkieStubble]

On a closely related note, I'm looking for some extreme .38 Special, as in +P+ and beyond. It's for the Ruger SP101 snubbie, which can take it. Actually they are frequently bored out to take 110 grain/short .357 loads. Anyways. I don't see this conversion as necessary, as there are solid copper projos, Barnes, Buffalo Bore etc. that can really maximize .38 +P. But which?

Anyone vouch for a best +P?

I have Rem. Golden Sabre 125s, which have a good rep.


AA

 

[Ad Astra]

This is what I found when I was looking at the Buffalo Bore 158 gr. .38 +P.

First one out of a snubbie, second vid. out of a 4" Smith. But you have a soft lead bullet. That type of load has been around for a long time, and it ain't too shabby. And they have a gas check on them.

The BB 158 is on my radar ... The old FBI load. Impressive!

AA

 

[Ad Astra]

Now that's new to me... One of those odd, light, fluted rounds.

Interesting.

There's a BB125 with low-flash powder charge, too ... Bet that 158 looks like Bikini Atoll when it goes off!


AA

 

[machinisttx]

On a closely related note, I'm looking for some extreme .38 Special, as in +P+ and beyond. It's for the Ruger SP101 snubbie, which can take it. Actually they are frequently bored out to take 110 grain/short .357 loads. Anyways. I don't see this conversion as necessary, as there are solid copper projos, Barnes, Buffalo Bore etc. that can really maximize .38 +P. But which?

Anyone vouch for a best +P?

I have Rem. Golden Sabre 125s, which have a good rep.


AA

Sounds like a trip back through time is necessary....back to to the late 1920's and early 1930's, just before the .357 Magnum was introduced in 1934. There was a cartridge known as the .38-44 Heavy Duty, which was offered in two handguns from S&W. One was the .38-44 Heavy Duty with fixed sights, and the second was the .38-44 Outdoorsman. Really, it was just a very, very hot .38 Special only for use in the large(N or .44) frame S&W's. It delivered .357 Mag ballistics from the .38 case. Problem was, people kept putting them in much lighter handguns that promptly disassembled themselves in dramatic fashion....which is why they quit making it and introduced the .357 Magnum.

You're not going to find anything in .38 Special from any reputable ammo manufacturer that comes close to that level of performance. If you want more than over the counter +P provides, then you'll have to load it yourself. Elmer Keith's .38 loads(.38-44 loads, really) would be a good starting point, though today's 2400 powder is a little more potent and you'll probably have to reduce his load by at least two grains. The other problem with his load is the bullet(Lyman mold #358429)...though it's really more of a gun issue. Some revolvers have cylinders that are too short to use that bullet if seated and crimped in the crimp groove....though it's really more of a problem when using it with .357 cases. I loaded and fired a handful of these(in .357 cases) through my own SP101 and ran into the problem myself. I loaded mine over Longshot powder(IIRC) and they were...quite unpleasant...the only time I've thought that about anything fired through my SP101. Not a load I will ever repeat, though I may experiment with 2400 at some point.

Personally, I would suggest either going with either Buffalo Bore's +P 158 grain lead SWC hollow point or whatever Speer's Gold Dot +P offering is. 110 grain .357 loads are a waste of money, and modifying any .38 revolver to use them is an even bigger waste of money. Gas checks are almost always another gimmick. Something is wrong if you need a gas check on a pistol bullet....typically the alloy is wrong for the pressure being generated.

 

[Tim_McD]

The Black Hills Honey Badger rounds use the Lehigh Xtreme Defense bullet as well, it punches x shaped holes in targets. I have that loaded into my Walther PPS

Black Hills HoneyBadger 9 mm Luger Ammo 100 Grain +P

 

[Shaving like a boss]

When in the woods, I carry Speer 158gr hollow points loaded on...welllll...its the max load from the Speer #8 manual is all I will say. Yes I know all about that book. BUT...no worries in my 1st gen GP100. I will say the muzzle blast is of biblical proportions. This round is great for my lever .357 as well. For every day carry, its Federal 125gr jacketed hollow points.

 

[OkieStubble]

Now that's new to me... One of those odd, light, fluted rounds.

Interesting.

There's a BB125 with low-flash powder charge, too ... Bet that 158 looks like Bikini Atoll when it goes off!


AA

Lol'd.

 

[MarkM10431]

all things being equal and i have timeto get to the truck. I'm good, since I always put the Mosin nagant in the back seat. there ain't nothing in Florida that bad boy won't stop, but I do want something on my hip just in case.. I guess i need o go to the range and see what they have for rentals.

 

[Ad Astra]

Wow, thanks for the info guys.

Think I will get a box if the Bb158s. It's s consensus.

I did carry the SP101 on a hike this morning. And did see a big fresh bear scat right in the middle of the trail ... Yuck. The lack of clear sign around it was something to think about ...hard pack and sand. Never saw a claw...


AA

 

[Ad Astra]

The Ruger is meant as SD only, not anti bear, to be clear. I'm too lazy to tote a bear gun.


AA

 

[simon1]

Sounds like a trip back through time is necessary....back to to the late 1920's and early 1930's, just before the .357 Magnum was introduced in 1934. There was a cartridge known as the .38-44 Heavy Duty, which was offered in two handguns from S&W. One was the .38-44 Heavy Duty with fixed sights, and the second was the .38-44 Outdoorsman. Really, it was just a very, very hot .38 Special only for use in the large(N or .44) frame S&W's. It delivered .357 Mag ballistics from the .38 case. Problem was, people kept putting them in much lighter handguns that promptly disassembled themselves in dramatic fashion....which is why they quit making it and introduced the .357 Magnum.

You're not going to find anything in .38 Special from any reputable ammo manufacturer that comes close to that level of performance. If you want more than over the counter +P provides, then you'll have to load it yourself. Elmer Keith's .38 loads(.38-44 loads, really) would be a good starting point, though today's 2400 powder is a little more potent and you'll probably have to reduce his load by at least two grains. The other problem with his load is the bullet(Lyman mold #358429)...though it's really more of a gun issue. Some revolvers have cylinders that are too short to use that bullet if seated and crimped in the crimp groove....though it's really more of a problem when using it with .357 cases. I loaded and fired a handful of these(in .357 cases) through my own SP101 and ran into the problem myself. I loaded mine over Longshot powder(IIRC) and they were...quite unpleasant...the only time I've thought that about anything fired through my SP101. Not a load I will ever repeat, though I may experiment with 2400 at some point.

Personally, I would suggest either going with either Buffalo Bore's +P 158 grain lead SWC hollow point or whatever Speer's Gold Dot +P offering is. 110 grain .357 loads are a waste of money, and modifying any .38 revolver to use them is an even bigger waste of money. Gas checks are almost always another gimmick. Something is wrong if you need a gas check on a pistol bullet....typically the alloy is wrong for the pressure being generated.

A guy I worked with many years ago carried an old .38-44...big and heavy but its bite was far worse than its bark...potent for a .38. I've seen some specs. on them.

Hey Rob...is that impressive permanent wound cavity real dependent on the velocity? I wonder how those would do out of a snubbie or an LCP .380.

 

[simon1]

Bet that 158 looks like Bikini Atoll when it goes off!
AA

It's not too bad out of my 4" Smith...less than a full house .357. I've only shot their standard pressure version of the old FBI load out of my snubbie out of deference to the Cobra's alloy frame. Their standard .38 LSWCHP seems to be about as potent as the watered down FBI +P loads from Remington or Winchester that are available now days.

 

[OkieStubble]

Hey Rob...is that impressive permanent wound cavity real dependent on the velocity? I wonder how those would do out of a snubbie or an LCP .380.

I believe so. 38 SPC clocking in around 1300 fps, but it's only pushing a 100 gr. slug. I don'y know if I'd want it from a short barrel. I would think not enough powder would burn to reach those velocities from a snubbie. Which in turn, wouldn't give that 100 gr. projectile much bite.

Heavier is definitely better than lighter from a smaller barrel imo.