I am in the same boat, but I did some looking around. You will probably want the Oumo as it sounds like it's a Manchurian type. The Paladin knot I assume is the same as pictured on their site. I wouldn't even have had this confusion without the Oumo option and I assume it's being offered for a good reason(2018 batch).
2023 B&B Contributors Brush
- Thread starter ChiefBroom
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- #22
With regard to knot selection, I'll give a short answer first and follow-up in a separate post with more than anyone probably wants to read.
Paladin Select Badger:
The Knot Code for the knots we'll use for this offering is 2CLND9. I haven't posted Knot Notes for them on our side yet. I stopped doing that some time back. We sourced these knots from Lansky Trading, which has been our main supplier since we started setting knots ourselves in late 2015. The producer's name is Mr. Cui, and at my request his daughter (who was in her mother's womb when her mother was making knots) has been hand-making our knots over the past several years. I have to take that on faith to some extent, but proof is in the pudding.
Although there is inevitably variance not only between batches of hair, within batches of hair, between orders of knots produced from the same batches of hair, and within any order of knots made from the same batch of hair, we've worked hard, and have been fairly successful in achieving consistency in the knots we source from Lansky due in large part to 1) the length of time we've been working with Lansky and Cui, 2) ceaseless communication and feedback (conducted via hundreds upon hundreds of emails, Skype messages, WeChat messages, phone conversations, video conferences, and visits by a principal of Lansky to our shop and home in both Kansas and Colorado), and 3) an agreement after a visit in October of 2016 that Cui's daughter would be responsible for making all of our knots, and I believe that agreement has been honored.
Given the inevitable variance mentioned above, it's difficult if not impossible to give unqualified descriptions of the knots associated with any particular Knot Code without engaging in BS, which I don't do. The original purpose of Knot Codes, which Paladin Shaving introduced in March of 2016, wasn't for me to use them to hold forth regarding knots; rather, it was to enable wet-shavers to discuss their experiences with our knots based on some common frame of reference. I posted that idea on B&B back in early 2013, but I can't find it now. That was well before it ever crossed my mind to make shaving brushes.
What I will say about the 2CLND9 knots we'll be using for this offering is that they are fairly typical of the knots we've offered over the past 2-3 years. They are not characterized by what I consider to be pronounced gel-tips. They generally have moderate density, according to my own preference in two-band knots. I don't consider them to have been excessively processed. (I should say in this regard that I personally do not believe in the existence of unprocessed badger hair of a type commonly used to make two-band knots.) Free loft among the 26 mm knots mostly falls in the range of 49-50 mm (with an average probably closer to 49 mm). Free loft among the 28 mm knots averages close to 53 mm. We anticipate lofting the 26s at about 52 mm and the 28s at about 54 mm.
I would expect these knots to perform better (in my estimation) than the Oumo knots in use with hard soaps and in face lathering. BUT MILEAGE WILL VARY.
Oumo two-band badger:
First, I respect and appreciate Carry and Anne of Oumo. Carry and I have carried on long and deep discussions with regard to badger hair and knots, and I believe he has been honest and forthright with me. Oumo has produced (or obtained production of) some great knots. But despite repeated efforts, we never managed to come to agreement regarding specifications.
We ordered the Oumo knots being offered here in December 2018, and they were delivered in January 2019. They are beautiful. They are dense. And I've enjoyed using them. But they didn't turn out to be what I wanted or expected based on samples we purchased in advance of placing a larger order. The difference was what that they evidenced processing to an extent that exceeded my comfort at that time. Although I've never been addicted to gel-tips, I do enjoy variety, and some of my favorite brushes have what I would describe as moderately gel-tips, I was concerned that these knots had been pushed a bit too far. It wasn't that I thought they were bad knots, or even that they wouldn't be popular. I just wasn't comfortable setting them in our handles. Since then, however, knots like these have been broadly accepted and achieved high popularity among a significant cohort of brush users. In fact, by comparison to some knots I've tried more recently, they might be considered moderate. So, we're offering them here for the first time as a choice. Free loft among the 26 mm knots averages about 52 mm, and among the 28s about 53 mm. We anticipate lofting the 26s at close to 53 mm and the 28s at close to 55 mm.
Synthetic two-band:
I've tried a lot of synthetic knots over the past several years. The first I enjoyed using were samples Lansky sent us a few years ago. (I don't remember exactly when, but it was before we moved back to Colorado.) Based on that encouraging experience, we went back and forth trying to improve performance and feel by modifying shape and density. In parallel with that, there were improvements in the fiber. At some point along the way, I asked if we might have synthetic knots made with two-band appearance. Those offered here are what resulted. They are the first and only synthetic knots I've highly enjoyed using. (In fact, I used nothing else for a couple of weeks, just because I wanted to.) That isn't to say anyone else will. There's no way to find out other than by trying. Free loft among the 26 mm knots averages about 49 mm, and among the 28s about 51 mm. We anticipate lofting the 26s at close to 53 mm and the 28s at close to 55 mm.
Photos:
26 mm (Paladin Select Badger left, 2018 Oumo Finest right)
28 mm (Paladin Select Badger left, 2018 Oumo Finest right)
Synthetic (26 mm left, 28 mm right)
Paladin Select Badger:
The Knot Code for the knots we'll use for this offering is 2CLND9. I haven't posted Knot Notes for them on our side yet. I stopped doing that some time back. We sourced these knots from Lansky Trading, which has been our main supplier since we started setting knots ourselves in late 2015. The producer's name is Mr. Cui, and at my request his daughter (who was in her mother's womb when her mother was making knots) has been hand-making our knots over the past several years. I have to take that on faith to some extent, but proof is in the pudding.
Although there is inevitably variance not only between batches of hair, within batches of hair, between orders of knots produced from the same batches of hair, and within any order of knots made from the same batch of hair, we've worked hard, and have been fairly successful in achieving consistency in the knots we source from Lansky due in large part to 1) the length of time we've been working with Lansky and Cui, 2) ceaseless communication and feedback (conducted via hundreds upon hundreds of emails, Skype messages, WeChat messages, phone conversations, video conferences, and visits by a principal of Lansky to our shop and home in both Kansas and Colorado), and 3) an agreement after a visit in October of 2016 that Cui's daughter would be responsible for making all of our knots, and I believe that agreement has been honored.
Given the inevitable variance mentioned above, it's difficult if not impossible to give unqualified descriptions of the knots associated with any particular Knot Code without engaging in BS, which I don't do. The original purpose of Knot Codes, which Paladin Shaving introduced in March of 2016, wasn't for me to use them to hold forth regarding knots; rather, it was to enable wet-shavers to discuss their experiences with our knots based on some common frame of reference. I posted that idea on B&B back in early 2013, but I can't find it now. That was well before it ever crossed my mind to make shaving brushes.
What I will say about the 2CLND9 knots we'll be using for this offering is that they are fairly typical of the knots we've offered over the past 2-3 years. They are not characterized by what I consider to be pronounced gel-tips. They generally have moderate density, according to my own preference in two-band knots. I don't consider them to have been excessively processed. (I should say in this regard that I personally do not believe in the existence of unprocessed badger hair of a type commonly used to make two-band knots.) Free loft among the 26 mm knots mostly falls in the range of 49-50 mm (with an average probably closer to 49 mm). Free loft among the 28 mm knots averages close to 53 mm. We anticipate lofting the 26s at about 52 mm and the 28s at about 54 mm.
I would expect these knots to perform better (in my estimation) than the Oumo knots in use with hard soaps and in face lathering. BUT MILEAGE WILL VARY.
Oumo two-band badger:
First, I respect and appreciate Carry and Anne of Oumo. Carry and I have carried on long and deep discussions with regard to badger hair and knots, and I believe he has been honest and forthright with me. Oumo has produced (or obtained production of) some great knots. But despite repeated efforts, we never managed to come to agreement regarding specifications.
We ordered the Oumo knots being offered here in December 2018, and they were delivered in January 2019. They are beautiful. They are dense. And I've enjoyed using them. But they didn't turn out to be what I wanted or expected based on samples we purchased in advance of placing a larger order. The difference was what that they evidenced processing to an extent that exceeded my comfort at that time. Although I've never been addicted to gel-tips, I do enjoy variety, and some of my favorite brushes have what I would describe as moderately gel-tips, I was concerned that these knots had been pushed a bit too far. It wasn't that I thought they were bad knots, or even that they wouldn't be popular. I just wasn't comfortable setting them in our handles. Since then, however, knots like these have been broadly accepted and achieved high popularity among a significant cohort of brush users. In fact, by comparison to some knots I've tried more recently, they might be considered moderate. So, we're offering them here for the first time as a choice. Free loft among the 26 mm knots averages about 52 mm, and among the 28s about 53 mm. We anticipate lofting the 26s at close to 53 mm and the 28s at close to 55 mm.
Synthetic two-band:
I've tried a lot of synthetic knots over the past several years. The first I enjoyed using were samples Lansky sent us a few years ago. (I don't remember exactly when, but it was before we moved back to Colorado.) Based on that encouraging experience, we went back and forth trying to improve performance and feel by modifying shape and density. In parallel with that, there were improvements in the fiber. At some point along the way, I asked if we might have synthetic knots made with two-band appearance. Those offered here are what resulted. They are the first and only synthetic knots I've highly enjoyed using. (In fact, I used nothing else for a couple of weeks, just because I wanted to.) That isn't to say anyone else will. There's no way to find out other than by trying. Free loft among the 26 mm knots averages about 49 mm, and among the 28s about 51 mm. We anticipate lofting the 26s at close to 53 mm and the 28s at close to 55 mm.
Photos:
26 mm (Paladin Select Badger left, 2018 Oumo Finest right)
28 mm (Paladin Select Badger left, 2018 Oumo Finest right)
Synthetic (26 mm left, 28 mm right)
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Ken’s Descriptions here
2023 B&B Contributors Brush
I’m still waiting for the knot descriptions., I might end up missing out or saving some money I’ll end up spending on a WR4. I am in the same boat, but I did some looking around. You will probably want the Oumo as it sounds like it's a Manchurian type. The Paladin knot I assume is the same as...
www.badgerandblade.com
- Thread starter
- #24
I'd guess many of the B&B Contributors who might be interested in this offering don't know a lot about us or how we approach setting knots. Here are a couple of links to information on our website that might be of interest.
Brushology: Anatomy and nomenclature - https://www.paladinshaving.com/pages/brushology-some-basic-anatomy-nomenclature-and-a-little-bit-of-philosophy
Knot Notes - https://www.paladinshaving.com/pages/knot-notes
Brushology: Anatomy and nomenclature - https://www.paladinshaving.com/pages/brushology-some-basic-anatomy-nomenclature-and-a-little-bit-of-philosophy
Knot Notes - https://www.paladinshaving.com/pages/knot-notes
- Thread starter
- #25
This project has moved very fast. I'm getting things done as quickly as I can. I just posted with regard to knots in the Paladin Vendor Forum. Thanks for your patience.
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With USPS, you put the declared value in. I declared the value at 200 dollars, same as the insurance for the exercise.
I would never suggest using anything but the actual numbers.
However, using USPS vs FedEx or UPS has substantial advantages in what I described with a fixed, known cost. As a vendor, you don’t have the issues of upset customers having to pay an additional 20-30 dollars to have the brush released.
There is a lot more to importing and exporting than it looks like to the customer, but since we ship 15-20 packages to Canada a week, I’m quite confident in my answer.
One question, Ken. I love the graphite handle. Would the engraving of Atlas be in a color other than black so it shows up?
Wow, now I'm actually looking at synthetic! Decisions, decisions. So far, the only thing I'm convinced I need is antique ivory. That is stunning and looks like the real deal.
@ChiefBroom, I've only been wet shaving for a little over a year, but I've got a LARGE vintage razor collection (about 200) and a fairly large collection of vintage blades too. I haven't yet fully fallen into the brush rabbit hole, but this offering is tugging at me really hard. My favorite soaps are on the harder side, and I almost always face lather.
Like @Phoenixkh, I am having difficulty deciding which knot to purchase. Perhaps unlike Kim (the male variety), I have never spent more than about $65 on a brush. I have a 22 mm Semogue 820 boar, a 24 mm WCS silvertip badger, a very cheap best badger, a mixed hair 24 mm Semogue Owner's Club Mistura, a 22 mm Semogue horse hair, and a 24 mm Fendrihan synthetic brush. I can appreciate all of them, but the SOC Mistura is my favorite so far. The Mistura has enough backbone to pick up soap nicely, holds plenty of lather, and has gentle tips that still give a little scritch.
From your extensive descriptions of the three different knots available and my soap and lathering preferences, I lean toward the Paladin 26 mm, 2-band badger knot. Have I understood correctly that this knot is your preference for harder soaps and face lathering? Also, I must ask the brush NOOB question. What are the advantages of going for a premium product like yours over the more mainstream (or house branded) brushes like the ones I currently own?
Cheers,
Mitch
I think I read that a gold lettering was going to be used with black.
- Thread starter
- #31
That was Lapis Lazuli.
My email is in. Lotus & Chief. Graphite and Antique Ivory, both in satin. Paladin 2-band badger and synthetic. I couldn’t decide so I went with both. 
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Two brushes ordered:
26 mm Beehive derivative in polished Graphite with Paladin Select Badger (two-band) Semi-Bulb/Hybrid knot
28 mm Tut in polished Antique Ivory with Paladin Select Badger (two-band) Semi-Bulb/Hybrid knot
26 mm Beehive derivative in polished Graphite with Paladin Select Badger (two-band) Semi-Bulb/Hybrid knot
28 mm Tut in polished Antique Ivory with Paladin Select Badger (two-band) Semi-Bulb/Hybrid knot
- Thread starter
- #34
Just look at this gorgeous brush… satin is the way! Can’t wait to get my hands on this in Lotus.
@mgweatherly I am the same when it comes to brushes, I just have basic ones myself and found it hard to justify getting an expensive brush but at the same time its something I haven't done it yet so.
Rudy is wise and I am glad you made that call.
I've never had an Oumo, but I have an SV and an Elite Manchurian, and I had a Zenith Manchurian for a short time. I like strong scrub and backbone, but that Zenith was too scritchy. I don't think you will be dissapointed with a Paladin. All of mine have had more backbone than any of the brands you have mentioned (again, I can't speak to the Oumo). All but one had more density as well, and the one that didn't has similar density to an SV and a bit more than my Elite. Density and backbone seem to be consistently strong in Paladin knots. My guess is that is what Ken specs to his suppliers. The variable tends to be the tips. Some have soft gel tips and some have some scrub, but never scritch. All have some processing. Some more than others. The WHE that I shared a photo of earlier in this thread is probably the one that I've had with the least aggressive processing, but it is also the one with a bit less density. It is a great knot. The short of all of this is you should be confident that you will love a Paladin knot. I've had a bunch and all have been high quality.
Polished Graphite. That's the winner for me. My email is in. Confidently asked for a Paladin Select before Ken even gave us the knot descriptions.
I currently have 5 Paladin brushes. I wouldn't part with any of them. Two new Paladin brushes are just what I need!
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